Society/Culture Bitcoin

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Chief said:
For some companies yes. But others give dividends, so there is a return not based solely on a rising price.
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I think you are viewing it as some sort of bullshit commodity when it should be viewed as an alternate, peer to peer based currency.

Alternate currencies have come and gone throughout history, especially in the US. Cryptocurrencies' key difference is that they are not centrally regulated and managed by a bank, and a government can't stick their noses in as easily.

Banks charge people for transactions. They have to, because it costs them effort and capital to do this. Bitcoin does not charge. Yet. So that's an advantage. But Bitcoin transactions are verified using distributed peer to peer resources, and the owners of those resources (that is, the computing power) get rewarded in Bitcoin. (Mining)

Thing is, a cap has been placed on how many will ever be mined. So if you can no longer get any compensation (or a continually minuscule one, I can see parallels with pyramid schemes here) for the use of your computing power to verify transactions, why would you do it? I can't see how we won't end up with some sort of garnishing of such transactions, and we are back to where we are with banks. In that regard.
 
Also check out CEO of JPMorgan Chase’s comments on bitcoin in September, the subsequent action by the company and the recent backflip by the CEO

Here is a timeline of events that may or may not be related;

September - selling of bitcoin due to CEO comments
September - buying of bitcoin by JPMorgan Chase
November - backflip on bitcoin by CEO
 

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This is some interesting history, apparently JPMorgan Chase has also filed patents for a similar system...

In other news the Turnbull government is investing millions of Australian tax payer money into bitcoin technology... Could have made that up to $120M more but they wasted that.
 
woota said:
The problem for bitcoin and bitcoin holders is that banks don't like bitcoin because it threatens to ruin their monopoly over the store of wealth. As I've said before, it's analogous to the Uber versus Taxi debate. Taxi drivers were in outrage when Uber entered the market, because it created competition for the Taxi industry and ended their monopoly over the "on-demand public transport" market, thus driving down the value of Taxi plates. It was a case of a new business model that took advantage of modern technology offering a superior service to the old, archaic taxi industry that hadn't changed in years. Taxis are now becoming redundant in many parts of the world as more and more people favor Uber and other ride-sharing services over traditional Taxis. A similar thing will occur with fiat currency versus cryptocurrency. We've already had the CEO of JPMorgan Chase, Jamie Dimon, come out and make public comments like this: "If you're stupid enough to buy bitcoin, you'll pay the price for it one day." He is trying to destroy the public perception of bitcoin and weaken confidence in it as an investment, because he's threatened by the emergence of bitcoin/cryptocurrency posing a threat to the traditional banking system.

Here's what you need to understand: If you hold bitcoin in a place in which you own and control the private key (for example, on a hardware wallet such as a ledger nano, keepkey or trezor), then you are effectively your own private bank -- you have total ownership and control over a private facility to store personal wealth. And THAT is why the traditional banking system is threatened by bitcoin and blockchain technology.

(By contrast, if you hold bitcoin/crypto in a place where someone else owns the private key, such as an exchange or an online wallet, then you're not acting as your own private bank because you're effectively just storing currency in someone else's bank, albeit digital currency).

This issue is on the periphery of public awareness because we're still in the early stages where most people don't really understand bitcoin or blockchain technology. That will change within a matter of years, and cryptocurrency will go mainstream. I think this debate will play out over many years, not 1 or 2 years like the Uber/Taxi debate. Banking institutions and governments may do everything in their power to try and run down bitcoin and suppress the mainstream adoption of cryptocurrency, but in my opinion they will ultimately fail.
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Interesting using the taxi/uber analogy, the problem with taxi's isn't that they hadn't changed in years, it is that they had progressively changed for the worse over the years for the customer. If you went back in time 50 years you'd have a totally unrecognisable taxi service as the one today. I'd say unless the banks change their attitude towards their customers then alternatives like bitcoin could become a threat.
 
Other crypto currencies run into the same issues as Bitcoin. How do you trust that the value of the currency is stable?

Bitcoin was specifically designed against inflation, so no matter what happens anyone who holds Bitcoin (at least from the early days) cannot lose value.

But this leads to its own problems of deflation. So what mechanism do new cryptocurrencies have to ensure that the money supply grows as the value of goods and services it pays for grows, while not arbitrarily "printing" new currency in response to any growth?
 
RupieDupie said:
I don’t think you can point out a few established companies to state the system isn’t just a tarted up bit of plastic. And secondly if this isn’t the case why is bitcoin any different?
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I think you’re underestimating the nature of our entire economy.


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Chief said:
I think you’re underestimating the nature of our entire economy.


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Probably understating how bad it actually is.

There is this Conan comic I read once and he is in a battle on a ship, and one of his crew mates yell out that the ship is sinking and they’re all going to drown. Conan jumps off the ship while yelling, something like, “have you taken leave of your senses, we are only in knee deep water”, because in actual fact they were within an arena having a coliseum-type battle for the masses.

This is what the economy is, a leave of senses, for example, it is based on a lot of credit at the moment (compounding) whereas the work, or promise of future work (measured by salaries and even gdp) is not compounding at the same rate. Next year the reserve bank, apparently, is going to look at this magical compounding rate and say a few magic words and “zotto”, people will have to work even harder. Whereas if people’s senses were restored they probably say, “geez that’s pretty fcuked up, how about “no””?
 
I had a few bitcoins from 2013, when the price was in the 20s. I got rid of them recently, wished i purchased a lot more. But even i forgot i had bitcoins till it appeared on the news again a year or so ago. Not sure what to make of it, but we are currently working on a blockchain startup in Europe and got several interested clients. I am not very well educated on bitcoin but yeah if its a bubble, i had fun riding it.
 
If it helps to break the current banking system & monopolies, then I'm all for it.....Including the nationalization of all Reserve & Central banks across the entire globe, in every country.....That'll put an end to these multi-national corporate shysters once & for all.

The only defense against these corporate robber baron cartels is for every nation to have a defensive wall in place, with canons in place & at the ready.
 
It's hard to see how much further they can go.

I first discovered them at $3 back in 2011 or 12. Purchased some here and there - they've long been sold off. Made a bit of cash but not as much as I would had I forgot about them and rediscovered them years later. Did want to buy more than I did and put them aside but was in Uni at the time and just had no spare cash. But I do know I would've sold off most once they hit $100 and the rest somewhere around the $500 mark. It's only in the last 12 months did I ever think they'd reach the heights they are now.

I also lost some cash in the MT Gox debacle which just goes to show how volatile the system could be. I had a great interest in writing some software that would be a online marketplace using only bitcoins - not in the silk road style, but in a legitimate E-bay style. But my biggest concern was cyber security. Any bitcoin market that is successful would be a huge target for cyber criminals and the stresses that go with that.

As for it's future? You'd have to think the price is a bubble and it's not longer possible to make a small fortune from putting aside a days wage. But with every crash bitcoin has had it eventually bounces back. Given that it hasn't even reached critical mass then I guess it's possible to go up another ten-fold.

The real interesting part is blockchain technology and how that could be incorporated into other parts of our life that are not cryptocurrencies. This article lists some interesting possibilities and there are hundreds of others: https://www.computerworlduk.com/gal...ld-blockchain-be-used-the-enterprise-3628558/
 

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The Passenger said:
It's hard to see how much further they can go.

I first discovered them at $3 back in 2011 or 12. Purchased some here and there - they've long been sold off. Made a bit of cash but not as much as I would had I forgot about them and rediscovered them years later. Did want to buy more than I did and put them aside but was in Uni at the time and just had no spare cash. But I do know I would've sold off most once they hit $100 and the rest somewhere around the $500 mark. It's only in the last 12 months did I ever think they'd reach the heights they are now.

I also lost some cash in the MT Gox debacle which just goes to show how volatile the system could be. I had a great interest in writing some software that would be a online marketplace using only bitcoins - not in the silk road style, but in a legitimate E-bay style. But my biggest concern was cyber security. Any bitcoin market that is successful would be a huge target for cyber criminals and the stresses that go with that.

As for it's future? You'd have to think the price is a bubble and it's not longer possible to make a small fortune from putting aside a days wage. But with every crash bitcoin has had it eventually bounces back. Given that it hasn't even reached critical mass then I guess it's possible to go up another ten-fold.

The real interesting part is blockchain technology and how that could be incorporated into other parts of our life that are not cryptocurrencies. This article lists some interesting possibilities and there are hundreds of others: https://www.computerworlduk.com/gal...ld-blockchain-be-used-the-enterprise-3628558/
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That strikes me as the more likely outcome - the technology being exploited by multinationals to screw more money out of people and gain more control.


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Chief said:
That strikes me as the more likely outcome - the technology being exploited by multinationals to screw more money out of people and gain more control.
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Ultimately the power goes with the money doesn't it.... I haven't been a big follower of bitcoin lately and only superficially in blockchain as a technology... But one of the issues with bitcoin years ago was if an actor could gain more than 50% control of the blockchain they could do whatever they wanted with it which would ultimately defeat th whole purpose of decentralisation. It was technically very hard to achieve and I can't remember the exact specifics of it all but it was a definite issue.

The codebase for blockchain may have been updated in recent times to handle this.

It's a very similar principle to how much big companies dominate markets.
 
RupieDupie said:
Also check out CEO of JPMorgan Chase’s comments on bitcoin in September, the subsequent action by the company and the recent backflip by the CEO

Here is a timeline of events that may or may not be related;

September - selling of bitcoin due to CEO comments
September - buying of bitcoin by JPMorgan Chase
November - backflip on bitcoin by CEO
Click to expand...
It's not regulated so... is this a complaint?
 
Chief said:
It's not regulated so... is this a complaint?
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No, I'm on the level, I capisce what's going on. Gnosis.

There are some good things that can come out of the stock market, just as there are some good things that come out of blockchain technology, but inevitably when they get applied by the people in power, all those lovely sentiments go the same way as a used-up masturbatory device (just like when a person can rig a market in their favour). I think that pretty much summarises my feelings on that side of the subject.

The other side, as pointed out by a few posters above, is the blockchain technology is pretty cool, and I am interested in this from the potential applications (innovative and useful applications, not just munny).
 
Chief said:
It looks like a shonky, complicated pyramid scheme to me.
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Peter Schiff (the guy who famously predicted the global financial crisis) spoke about bitcoin on the Joe Rogan podcast. He didnt go as far to call it a pyramid scheme but he likened it to being a highly volatile share. Sure, some people who got in early and cash out will make millions from it, but that profit is coming from the suckers who buy into bitcoin too late. Theres no way in hell id fork out $7000 for 1 bitcoin right now. The other trouble with bitcoin is that people can easily switch to a slightly better alternative cryptocurrency in the future. Think Yahoo being superceded by Google, MySpace being superceded by Facebook. The online business market is as fragile as it comes, and these cryptocurrencies dont have the benefit of government backing them up should it all turn to s**t.
 
Macca81 said:
Peter Schiff (the guy who famously predicted the global financial crisis) spoke about bitcoin on the Joe Rogan podcast. He didnt go as far to call it a pyramid scheme but he likened it to being a highly volatile share. Sure, some people who got in early and cash out will make millions from it, but that profit is coming from the suckers who buy into bitcoin too late. Theres no way in hell id fork out $7000 for 1 bitcoin right now. The other trouble with bitcoin is that people can easily switch to a slightly better alternative cryptocurrency in the future. Think Yahoo being superceded by Google, MySpace being superceded by Facebook. The online business market is as fragile as it comes, and these cryptocurrencies dont have the benefit of government backing them up should it all turn to s**t.
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a great analogy re yahoo and google.

Cryptocurrency is the way of the future bit Bitcoin has already failed as it is an investment rather than currency. I'm not sure which cryptocurrency design will win but it will need to be a stable storage of wealth, accepted by the market with a thin value spread and accepted by government regulation (or somehow remain above government).
 
Would it be possible in the future for the banks to create their own crypto currency?


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Macca81 said:
Peter Schiff (the guy who famously predicted the global financial crisis) spoke about bitcoin on the Joe Rogan podcast. He didnt go as far to call it a pyramid scheme but he likened it to being a highly volatile share. Sure, some people who got in early and cash out will make millions from it, but that profit is coming from the suckers who buy into bitcoin too late. Theres no way in hell id fork out $7000 for 1 bitcoin right now. The other trouble with bitcoin is that people can easily switch to a slightly better alternative cryptocurrency in the future. Think Yahoo being superceded by Google, MySpace being superceded by Facebook. The online business market is as fragile as it comes, and these cryptocurrencies dont have the benefit of government backing them up should it all turn to s**t.
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Those events happened slowly though. Any Joe could see Facebook gradually overtaking MySpace and it was the same with yahoo/google.
 
chargers 09 said:
Would it be possible in the future for the banks to create their own crypto currency?


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Of course, anyone can create a cryptocurrency. Getting it to be recognised and used is the challenge
 
Tips for a newbie cryptocurrency investor? Putting in a few dollars next week.
 
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