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Haso

Haso

Isn't this where we came in?
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Nov 4, 2011
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Simon Black is a week-to-week proposition according to Voss, as reported by TomFC, er, Damien Stannard here.

He has been spending time in HF recently, which I love, but how much will it affect the leadership and direction of the mids if he is out every few weeks?

They did a great job without him against West Coast. Is this the time for the 3 Rs, and Leuey when he returns, to put two hands on the reigns?
 
Given the amount of football that Black has missed this year already, I'd suggest that ownership of the midfield has already passed hands to Rich, Redden, Rockliff and Raines.

Black has had some wonderful games, but I don't think he has impacted the course of our season all that greatly.
 
We can't rely on Black anymore to lead the midfield, so his loss isn't that big I don't think. He is very handy to have at HF and he is still a classy player, but it's time to pass the torch. If he is week to week with a knee issue, it is probably a main reason why he isn't in the midfield. If we can get another year from him at HF than great, but we cant be asking him to carry our midfield anymore.
 

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I think it affects our midfield depth quite significantly. Part of the reason why we've had a good patch is that we've starting to build some depth in our midfield rotations and Black is a big part of that, as a quality player coming in as part of the secondary group of mids. If you lose him and replace him with Beams/Polec etc, you really do lose out quite significantly when it is time to give the "A" group a rest. Add to that the class he has brought to the half forward line and his absence is, IMO, quite significant.

I don't think this is a matter of getting the "Rs" to step up - it is about finding another player or two capable of taking Black's role in the midfield so we don't lose too greatly when we rotate the top tier guys out.
 
That's a really interesting take, POBT. I had not thought about it that way. His absence in the sense that he leads the B crew was actually quite noticeable on Saturday, wasn't it. I think it was Quigley who mentioned in a post that there were times when Redden, Rocky and Rich were all absent from the centre bounce. We were trying out mid depth, and there was no experienced campaigner there (Black) to steady things.
 
IanHaso84 said:
That's a really interesting take, POBT. I had not thought about it that way. His absence in the sense that he leads the B crew was actually quite noticeable on Saturday, wasn't it. I think it was Quigley who mentioned in a post that there were times when Redden, Rocky and Rich were all absent from the centre bounce. We were trying out mid depth, and there was no experienced campaigner there (Black) to steady things.
Click to expand...
I think it is similar to when Collingwood are at full strength (ie Swan, Pendlebury, Ball all play), their "B" group can consist of Thomas, Beams, Sidebottom - which is outstanding. Similar to the Cats whose secondary group over the years might have had Kelly, Chapman and Bartel leading the way (behind Selwood, Ablett, Corey, Ling). I reckon we're seeing now the impact of that loss of depth for Geelong - the older players are still bloody good, but they don't have the next tier of support yet. Consequently, their ability to maintain excellence across an entire quarter/match, has been eroded.

Edit - I know I have simplified things when I talk of "A" and "B" groups because it is obviously a lot more fluid than that but the crux of it is midfield depth - and ours is still not great.
 
Good thought POBT, probably spot on with the 'B' group assessment. The other side of this is just how young and inexperienced the 'B' group is. If we have Raines, Redden, Rich and Rocky are the top end mids, after that going through the middle you'd have Zorko, Green, Polec, Lester maybe Adcock or Hanely, Bewick or Polka, it is a significant step down with many of those players very raw in their development. There is some class there, but it's basically last years 2nds midfield group. It's another reason why i think the next 12-18 months we will continue to see some good improvement in our team. If we can have Raines, Redden and Rich as the starting group, supported by Beams, Rockliff, Polec, Bartlett, it's not a bad group, but it's a group that will be decent in 2 years time. Shows we have some depth and talent, just need to time to develop it. Definitely need to be going after the best available mid with our first pick this year though. The likes of Polec, Lester, Karni, Docherty still aren't main midfielders to me, they are HF's or HB's or wingers, good looking for those positions, but we need another genuine ball winning mid, hopefully with a bit of toe, and true onballer, not just a player who will be part of midfield rotations. Rich was the last player we took with a high pick who was a bit of a genuine Mid.
 
Harwood springs to mind. Perhaps not this year but certainly next. His tank is better than the above mentioned wing/HB/HFs and he's shown that his disposal has improved dramatically from this time last year. King of the Clearances in the magoos for the better part of two seasons now, 2013 should see him at the pinnacle of the "B" group.
This does of course imply that we can find a replacement for him in the back 6. Docherty could be the missing link in a lot of ways for us next year.

For the remaining 8 games of 2012 though I feel it comes down to Adcock. He's the man with the mature body, the experience and the leadership to order the "B" group around the centre square. Not saying that he should do all the heavy lifting like that bald dude down the road but he should bring a sense of calm that he's going to do his job which will reduce the panicked thoughts where it become everyman for himself and the plan/structure goes out the window.
Going into the middle does leave us wanting at the back though which is why stiller should be getting games at least until Golby is fit again. He fills the hole either on the wing as Hanley drops back or fills the hole in the back 6 directly.
 
One could say Simon has a:

dickie-knee.jpg


(Smacking your head against your keyboard will break the aforementioned keyboard and give you a headache)

Still, he's an old man, and he's been a brilliant servant to the club. He should be allowed to enjoy whatever footy he has left in him.

I really think that Danny Rich could be the one to step up and fill Blacky's place, just like it seems Redden fills Lukey's old place and Rockliff seems to be our new Voss.

All we need now is an Aker and a Lappin...
 
This might prove unpopular - however, I am of the opinion that it is in the interests of the team that this be blacks last year. I love him as a player, he is still capable of really solid performances, but i just think its time for full control to go to 4RRRR's and to give up a spot for another player to devalop. Now more than ever the the need for spots on the ground is vitally important for the next 10 years - Beams, Patty, lisle not playing is the perfect example. Brown still has 2 more years left after this one, however, I think for the sake of the teams future and devalopment and simply so the new guard can take over, Blacky should retire (rather than get the sit down by Voss). Hopefully he slots straight into an assistant coaching role with us.
 

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Watching the replay it really didn't look like a corkie.
 
As you can see from our best 22, our midfield can win games without Black, but it would be nice if he can play for I more year. Maybe we can delist him and put him on the rookie list, like what Saints did with Blake:
B: Golby, Maguire, Staker
HB: Adcock, Patfull, Drummond
C: Hanley, Rockliff, Rich
HF: Beams, Brown, Zorko
F: McGrath, Merrett, Karnezis
Foll: Leuenberger, Raines, Redden
I/C: Polec, Harwood, Docherty; Yeo
 
theteamtobeat said:
As you can see from our best 22, our midfield can win games without Black, but it would be nice if he can play for I more year. Maybe we can delist him and put him on the rookie list, like what Saints did with Blake:
B: Golby, Maguire, Staker
HB: Adcock, Patfull, Drummond
C: Hanley, Rockliff, Rich
HF: Beams, Brown, Zorko
F: McGrath, Merrett, Karnezis
Foll: Leuenberger, Raines, Redden
I/C: Polec, Harwood, Docherty; Yeo
Click to expand...

A player like Black does not play out his career on the rookie list....He'd retire before that happened and rightly so.

He'll go around again next year
 
Plus if his knee requires surgery they might pull the pin on his season a month or so early to make sure he gets a full pre-season for next year.
 
theteamtobeat said:
As you can see from our best 22, our midfield can win games without Black, but it would be nice if he can play for I more year. Maybe we can delist him and put him on the rookie list, like what Saints did with Blake:
Click to expand...
CarloLion said:
A player like Black does not play out his career on the rookie list....He'd retire before that happened and rightly so.

He'll go around again next year
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Wash your mouth out with soap for even suggesting it. A bit of respect for one of the all time greats, if you dont mind.
 
There are two players on the list who decide when the time is ripe IMO - Brown and Black. We owe them that much and more.
 
I'm a little bit surprised at Lynchy's reaction. Not only the way in which he didn't stop talking about it all night, but also the fact that he just didn't seem to understand the move. I think his response was more bewildering than the move itself.

My hope is that he comments again this week, after he checks out Vossy's post-match.
 
IanHaso84 said:
I'm a little bit surprised at Lynchy's reaction. Not only the way in which he didn't stop talking about it all night, but also the fact that he just didn't seem to understand the move. I think his response was more bewildering than the move itself.
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Couldn't agree more....Obviously doesn't have the footy nous he proposes to have....he was really annoying me the way he was going on and on....the main reason being for the fact he is one of us, and as such, I feel he was eventually coming across as criticising Voss...and not saying that there must be a reason for it..

IMO it was plain to any person the slightest bit interested and having some knowledge of the Lions, that Simon Black would not be in a subs vest without reason...player management then comes to mind!

This was later mentioned in Vossys press conference..
 
I thought it was a good move. I've felt that there can be a bit of a 'leave it to Black' (or probably more a 'don't get in Black's way') attitude amongst the younger midfielders, as evidenced by some of them playing their best when he's not there. Playing him as the sub puts the onus on the younger midfielders and will prolong his career. It also creates a difficult match up with the tagger already tired. And he was able to increase his output per minutes played. Compare that to Banfield who had one possession last week as the sub. It's the best way forward, but we just need our other midfielders to find some form.
 
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