Bluemour Melting Pot XXIII

[Blue Bloods]

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Continued from here:-

Bluemour Melting Pot XXII

Does it worry anyone else that the guys who are in the high priced free agency wars seem to have pretty crap years after their mega-deal is done? Coniglio and Grundy haven't exactly set the world alight this year. Kelly hasn't seemed to become the next amazing midfielder that everyone thought...

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Continued here:

Bluemour Melting Pot XXVII

As per the Bluemour File OP, this is a thread for discussing Carlton related rumours. http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/bluemour-file.1085141/ Rumour posters should post their rumours in both threads for those that like just to read rumours and for those that like to have get lost in their...

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Just like to thank Aphrodite and the other Carlton mods who started the Bluemours NON Discussion Thread and who have kept it free of chat over the past few years.

It helps so much when you just don't have the time to read through this thread, cheers and great job.

 

[Mr_Plow]

We get mate, your not interested in Williams or any other player, just Kelly

With the kindest of respect, repetition is also a relative strength of yours...

 

[Foucault1989]

That’s part of the excitement. I never thought we were a reasonable chance to get Shiel when we were spooners and Coniglio was either going to stay at GWS or sign with a contender.

But with Williams we’d just need to finish mid-range, preferably in the 8, to be able to grab him.

If we can’t get him we go as hard at Kelly the year after.

I always respect your views on football but I'm starting to move away from the idea of trading in players for high cost (draft picks). I think we've got the core talent on our list and would like to see us have a balanced list moving forward where we aren't playing monster contracts, while losing quality players because we cannot pay them enough. My preference is to continue to hit the draft and bring in successive waves of young talent to build a list for long term, sustainable success. However, on other days, I find the idea of an injection of a gun or two - at high cost - to win a flag might be worth it.

We are in such an interesting position list wise. I'm adamant that our future depends not on who we bring in, but how well our young talent develop, and how fast.

 

[Arr0w]

With the kindest of respect, repetition is also a relative strength of yours...

In terms of targeting players?

Think I have mentioned more than "get Kelly and Papley"

 

[La Dispute]

I always respect your views on football but I'm starting to move away from the idea of trading in players for high cost (draft picks). I think we've got the core talent on our list and would like to see us have a balanced list moving forward where we aren't playing monster contracts, while losing quality players because we cannot pay them enough. My preference is to continue to hit the draft and bring in successive waves of young talent to build a list for long term, sustainable success. However, on other days, I find the idea of an injection of a gun or two - at high cost - to win a flag might be worth it.

We are in such an interesting position list wise. I'm adamant that our future depends not on who we bring in, but how well our young talent develop, and how fast.

We’re in a privileged position to do both with so many drafts under our belt and 5 first rounders not even playing currently, but if you get a player of William’s quality wanting to join you do everything you can to grab them. The bonus with Williams is we can get him without giving up draft picks because GWS want be able to match up offer.

I think we’ve partly been conditioned to just expect the squad to grow organically we’ve hardly seen the impact of bringing in high quality players to improve the squad straight away. However we have seen the kind of impact of Martin has had this year and can safely say we’d have dropped any other few games. Add in Williams next year, along with some further growth in our younger players and we more than likely win a couple more.

Also Williams is still only 25. He’s got another 5-6 years left, and we should be right in the window at that point in time. He also replaces Simpson directly, which was going to be a minor challenge going forward.

To me it is the easiest decision we will ever make.

 

[Foucault1989]

We’re in a privileged position to do both with so many drafts under our belt and 5 first rounders not even playing currently, but if you get a player of William’s quality wanting to join you do everything you can to grab them. The bonus with Williams is we can get him without giving up draft picks because GWS want be able to match up offer.

I think we’ve partly been conditioned to just expect the squad to grow organically we’ve hardly seen the impact of bringing in high quality players to improve the squad straight away. However we have seen the kind of impact of Martin has had this year and can safely say we’d have dropped any other few games. Add in Williams next year, along with some further growth in our younger players and we more than likely win a couple more.

Also Williams is still only 25. He’s got another 5-6 years left, and we should be right in the window at that point in time. He also replaces Simpson directly, which was going to be a minor challenge going forward.

To me it is the easiest decision we will ever make.

For sure - no doubts about Willams. He would be the perfect fit for our list. We are screaming out for a highly skilled, fast half back/mid. Free agents are fine. I was probably more referring to someone like Kelly. If Kelly costs us two first rounders and 1 million plus per year I probably wouldnt be stoked. No doubt he is a quality footballer, but the impact on other parts of our present and future list could be significant

 

[TheBlueCampaigner]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Cameron is the one that the Giants let go. It would free up a heap of space and that Riccardi kid looks the goods.

 

[Mr_Plow]

In terms of targeting players?

Think I have mentioned more than "get Kelly and Papley"

Mainly in extending discussions beyond their ideal termination.

Williams not having a great game today. Looks a bit slower than usual, which is strange.

Whitfield though... good ****ing lord. What a player.

 

[Red Bull]

I'd rather Williams at 800k as a FA

Than

Kelly at 1.2k for 2x first rounders

But I'd probs still pay that for Kelly

So would i,
But the decision will likely be the Giants ... not ours.
If the Giants decide that Williams is more important to them than a midfielder and opt to let Kelly go, what then ... are we in the market for him ?
Would we prefer Kelly or Papley at similar asking price ?

 

[La Dispute]

For sure - no doubts about Willams. He would be the perfect fit for our list. We are screaming out for a highly skilled, fast half back/mid. Free agents are fine. I was probably more referring to someone like Kelly. If Kelly costs us two first rounders and 1 million plus per year I probably wouldnt be stoked. No doubt he is a quality footballer, but the impact on other parts of our present and future list could be significant

Walsh will be our version of Kelly. Not like-for-like, but an ultra hardworking mid who generates a lions share of the outside play.

Williams suits us far more.

 

[Red Bull]

We’re in a privileged position to do both with so many drafts under our belt and 5 first rounders not even playing currently, but if you get a player of William’s quality wanting to join you do everything you can to grab them. The bonus with Williams is we can get him without giving up draft picks because GWS want be able to match up offer.

I think we’ve partly been conditioned to just expect the squad to grow organically we’ve hardly seen the impact of bringing in high quality players to improve the squad straight away. However we have seen the kind of impact of Martin has had this year and can safely say we’d have dropped any other few games. Add in Williams next year, along with some further growth in our younger players and we more than likely win a couple more.

Also Williams is still only 25. He’s got another 5-6 years left, and we should be right in the window at that point in time. He also replaces Simpson directly, which was going to be a minor challenge going forward.

To me it is the easiest decision we will ever make.

This is the whole point.
It very likely won’t be our decision to make.
The Giants hold the aces here.
If they decide not to accomodate his salary needs and he then decides to explore his RFA status, of course we are in for him boots “n” all !! ... as will be 16 other clubs ...

 

[HereComesJuddy]

So would i,
But the decision will likely be the Giants ... not ours.
If the Giants decide that Williams is more important to them than a midfielder and opt to let Kelly go, what then ... are we in the market for him ?
Would we prefer Kelly or Papley at similar asking price ?

Difference is, it wouldn't be a similar asking price. Kelly is a gun but would cost too much. Better list management would mean we take Papley, Williams, a young mid maybe Caldwell and hope to get in the ear of Hunter and get him out of the dogs.

Best part is. The growth from within is where we will be hard to beat

 

[therubbernub]

Very interesting INs for the Pies game. This game is critical for our finals chances. Lose and its goneski. Bringing Dow and Polson in seems like a real vote of confidence for these 2

 

[Red Bull]

Difference is, it wouldn't be a similar asking price. Kelly is a gun but would cost too much. Better list management would mean we take Papley, Williams, a young mid maybe Caldwell and hope to get in the ear of Hunter and get him out of the dogs.

Best part is. The growth from within is where we will be hard to beat

I very much doubt the Giants will lose both Williams and Kelly this year.
If they keep Williams, the asking price for Kelly and Papley will be similar ...

 

[gbatman]

This is the point.
The Giants hold the aces and will likely decide the outcomes.
Williams has no desire to leave GWS, if they give him a suitable contract ... he stays.
We can’t “buy” him if he’s not for sale.
The Giants may simply be open to losing what they can most easily cover ...

Well that's it, you can't get any player who doesn't want to come to you. If he does however he is pretty much ours. I don't think GWS could do anything to stop him if he chose to come to us.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

I very much doubt the Giants will lose both Williams and Kelly this year ...

I agree.
And it's not really just "It's up to the giants who leaves". If either or both players mentioned want out, they will get out. Especially Williams

 

[HBF]

I doubt TDK is going anywhere bar our centre bounces and forward line

Club will just say NO Thanks, he is staying put

This.
You don't trade out a ruckman like him at his age.

 

[katmanblue]

Boekhorst doesn't want to leave.

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[katmanblue]

I heard the swans want to trade for Glass-McCasker

A Glass-cask seem like asking for trouble

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[Red Bull]

Well that's it, you can't get any player who doesn't want to come to you. If he does however he is pretty much ours. I don't think GWS could do anything to stop him if he chose to come to us.

All reports indicate he is a happy, hardcore Giant.
He just needs a satisfactory contract to stay.
This will be the Giants decision ... not ours ...

 

[Red Bull]

I agree.
And it's not really just "It's up to the giants who leaves". If either or both players mentioned want out, they will get out. Especially Williams

Look, I get why everyone is hot for Williams.
I am too.
He’s a gun
He suits our requirements
And he’s a RFA
But it’s not a bad idea to look at the situation through the eyes of Williams and the Giants.
Reportedly,
Williams wants the Giants
And
The Giants want Williams
When 2 parties want the same thing, they usually get it.
If that is the case, it won’t matter a jot what we or any other club want or offer.

 

[Weiterbot23]

So would i,
But the decision will likely be the Giants ... not ours.
If the Giants decide that Williams is more important to them than a midfielder and opt to let Kelly go, what then ... are we in the market for him ?
Would we prefer Kelly or Papley at similar asking price ?

Kelly

 

[Foucault1989]

Look, I get why everyone is hot for Williams.
I am too.
He’s a gun
He suits our requirements
And he’s a RFA
But it’s not a bad idea to look at the situation through the eyes of Williams and the Giants.
Reportedly,
Williams wants the Giants
And
The Giants want Williams
When 2 parties want the same thing, they usually get it.
If that is the case, it won’t matter a jot what we or any other club want or offer.

Yeah I'm thinking the same. I can't get too excited but I feel it's unlikely. Would be an absolute if he left and nominated us but not sure we can bank on it. We will defs make an offer but it's in the Giants court. He wants to stay, it now depends on how much they are prepared to pay. He will give them every opportunity to work something out before he considers others.

...if he does leave and nominate Hawthorn I'd be devo

 

[Coona Blues]

Look, I get why everyone is hot for Williams.
I am too.
He’s a gun
He suits our requirements
And he’s a RFA
But it’s not a bad idea to look at the situation through the eyes of Williams and the Giants.
Reportedly,
Williams wants the Giants
And
The Giants want Williams
When 2 parties want the same thing, they usually get it.
If that is the case, it won’t matter a jot what we or any other club want or offer.

Understanding your logic. However, if it were an even playing field, Williams would undoubtedly stay at the club he is happy with. However the Giants will
absolutely struggle to muster $500k of cap space to pay him. If they retain him, they must farewell Perryman, Caldwell and maybe more. Multiple clubs
will pay a good $200k or more over that. Money talks, as does the relative esteem in which your club holds you. Dollars aside, how could Williams be happy
if similar or even lesser players are getting significantly more, just because he is less mercenary? It will wear very thin.

GWS will be in line for band 1 compensation so will not be totally devastated at the loss. Whitfield didn't do too bad off half back today with Ash.
Williams was pushed deeper in defense, despite his reported desire for midfield minutes. A minor aside had a FB post from a former school and
junior footy mate of Williams, he grew up a Blues supporter to coin the old cliche

 

[katmanblue]

I very much doubt the Giants will lose both Williams and Kelly this year.
If they keep Williams, the asking price for Kelly and Papley will be similar ...

Then you take Kelly

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[BuxbaumBixby]

This situation is where we will hopefully see our good salary cap management serve us well.

We are in the position to pay extra to get the player without having to lose any of our players or draft picks in trade, so of he's perfect for what we need, you absolutely throw big dollars front-loaded at him. Force GWS to make a hard decision - offload someone else or lose him for nothing but compo from the AFL. We walk away with nothing but a salary cap hit (which we can afford) and a gun player.

I agree, but at some point, we're going to have to get our heads around losing a couple of players that have value to improve holes in our list. This year we might be able to exploit salary cap room - but at some point, we're also going to be in a position where we need to shuffle the decks. I just hope Austin doesn't feel like he has to make something happen for the sake of making something happen as the new kid on the block.