Bluemour Melting Pot XXVIII

[AB_Blue]

We are beyond little tweaks……

We’re talking brooms & bleach to clean the rotten stench out.

I think the tail wags the dog at our club and has done since the pagan years


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gethelred]

You sincerely believe that we have performed at anything that remotely resembles AFL level? Almost Fitzroy like.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Get back to me when you've worked out what was actually in my post.

 

[Wickzki]

So “there’s nothing too see here”??


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Not necessarily directed at you.

Tell me where Arr0w has ever actually said this or that the club is without fault.

Personally, and he can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Arr0w would be much more responsive and detailed if there was actual depth to the discussion instead of the same surface-level talk. I may not always agree but I know him to be extremely insightful and understanding of the different layers.

To be honest, I'm getting tired of the pigeonholing of posters especially Arr0w. Not everything is black and white.

 

[Arr0w]

Not so great but it is what it is. I'm glad you're well.

Give me a call anytime mate

 

[BrianSetzer]

Need a harsh,relentless,uncompromising coach to drive standards,not a ‘nice’ coach.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I totally agree. But I also fear with this soft bunch that they will not like it and sook it up, therefore not play for him. Eg, he's lost the players. I can just see it.

 

[fnm_just a man]

if there was actual depth to the discussion instead of the same surface-level talk. I may not always agree but I know him to be extremely insightful and understanding of the different layers.

What do you mean by surface-level talk?

 

[Gingerbread man]

The Buzz around Essendon is laughable, I can't believe people are getting sucked in.

They aren't rebuilding, they have stated that, they only have a couple of decent young players because there good players demanded to leave and that was after they kept them for an extra year getting less for them than they could have (Daniher would have got them 2019 - pick 9 and 2020 - pick 3 instead they only got 2020 + pick 8).

Their leading goal kicker is 34

Well all I know is that they have gone passed us

 

[Stiffler's Dad]

Lyon is definitely not playing hard to get, and Leppitsch has been sounded out.

aweem away

Leppitsch it is then.
Hope he wakes up in time to accept the job.

 

[Wickzki]

What do you mean by surface-level talk?

Lots of symptoms being identified but the cause lays deeper. Treat the symptoms and they're bound to pop up again later (which they have). Answers aren't that simple.

Others have a different take and that's fine.

 

[Arr0w]

What do you think are the not big tweaks and what are the big mind changes Arr0w?

One in the same JAB.

You know all too well that sometimes it's difficult to step back and self assess either oneself or the greater level of responsibility and effectiveness

Changes, minor in many areas

Better identification of needs in our playing list. KPP and or ruckman (needs to be a threat resting forward), aggressive speed/runners, footskills. Natural hardness

Balanced gameplan, that the first point of call is defensive structures and contested ball. Use players, control the ball, rather than letting the ball speed and distance dictate the plan. +1 defensively, push 1 - 2 forwards to the backend of stoppages, 1-2 mids behind the stoppage

Unacceptable acts not tolerated by any one player. Nonnegotible traits and the selection criteria around these measures.

Stop trying to play best 22, play best player per position that benefits team, not individual

Initially, like next week, forgo corralling and attack the disputed ball/ball carrier. Stop running forward to anticipate gained possession, wait for that outcome, basic

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

One in the same JAB.

You know all too well that sometimes it's difficult to step back and self assess either oneself or the greater level of responsibility and effectiveness

Changes, minor in many areas

Better identification of needs in our playing list. KPP and or ruckman (needs to be a threat resting forward), aggressive speed/runners, footskills. Natural hardness

Balanced gameplan, that the first point of call is defensive structures and contested ball. Use players, control the ball, rather than letting the ball speed and distance dictate the plan. +1 defensively, push 1 - 2 forwards to the backend of stoppages, 1-2 mids behind the stoppage

Unacceptable acts not tolerated by any one player. Nonnegotible traits and the selection criteria around these measures.

Stop trying to play best 22, play best player per position that benefits team, not individual

Initially, like next week, forgo corralling and attack the disputed ball/ball carrier. Stop running forward to anticipate gained possession, wait for that outcome, basic

stop guarding space and turning your back/running away from the ball carrier when you're 5 metres away....

 

[fnm_just a man]

Lots of symptoms being identified but the cause lays deeper. Treat the symptoms and they're bound to pop up again later (which they have). Answers aren't that simple.

Others have a different take and that's fine.

Yes, much deeper. Stems from a club culture that has been among the worst in the league for 20 years, and THE worst in the league for a good chunk of that. I think, generally speaking, most see that now. Decisions that were made 15 years ago are not irrelevant to where things are at today.

 

[2blue4u]

This is just my opinion but personally this is what i see as massive failures from the club.
THE REBUILD.
From the day they announced it it was doomed. We were a club that was going to play the kids and rely on them for future long term sustained success. There was 2 big problems with this. 1 is that we had no stand alone VFL side which if you look at the good clubs this is what they have and 2 had either a non existing or very poor development program because rarely did we try and draft our own and turn them into A graders. Both of these things should of been in place years before we decided to start the rebuild.
Take Geelong for example. Their draftees sit in their VFL side for maybe 3 or 4 years before they even get a look in. Here we are gifting them games from day 1.
We got rid of too many players too quick. There is no doubt those players needed to go but at what cost? The stupid thing was we got rid of them to only replace them with just as bad or worse players. At least with the players we had on the list some of them had been at Carlton for a while and at least had little bit of Carlton pride. We just replaced them with players from other teams who did not give a stuff about Carlton and these were meant to be the players showing our young guys the way come on. Then after that it was bring in every C grader possible..
The kids had no one to learn off and really still dont.
I think players like SPS, Obrien etc were hard done by in their introduction to AFL. They really could not of gone to a worse club.

DRAFTING
I do not think we went wrong in the draft. Everyone we picked would of been picked within a few picks later by other clubs. The Carlton system let those kids down. The Carlton club let those kids down. Obviously not every recruiter is going to nail every pick but there is no way in hell literally all our draft picks are failures to this extent at the moment. It would of been intresting to see if a player like Dow ended up at Richmond or Geelong and brought up in a real development program with real leaders and culture around the club. I dont think our draft picks were a failure i think our club failed them.

RECRUITING
Well early days we really had a problem because trying to get any good players to come Carlton in the middle of a full list rebuild was virtually impossible. We had nothing at all to sell them so no good player in their right mind was going to come to Carlton so this basically left us with dregs which then was a flow on to the development of the kids.
But with our midfield being the absolue biggest problem because it bats about 2 deep and thats it. Carlton in their wisdom go and recruit 2 half back flankers on big dollars. 1 was supposed to fix our midfield issue. Well as everything done at Carlton that turned out not so well and our midfield is still the biggest issue. Actually to the point that our 20 year old midfielder is now the one being tagged. Yep great work Carlton even though most with a brain know the midfield is the main link in the chain.

COACHES-BOLTON.
Whoever took the head coaching at Carlton at the start of the rebuild was a dead man walking that is why no senior coaches wanted the job and it come down to Bolton and Barker and i have no doubt the club probably told Barker you might want to step away from this one. I actually do not think Bolton was that bad of a coach i think club and players really let him down He was told play the kids at all costs and eventually it cost him his job.

TEAGUE
Honestly not sure what went on here. Generally when a new coach comes in the assistants are also replaced. We kept them all. This means that the messages that were being said when Bolton ws coaching are still the same messages getting slung around now. I really do not get it. How about some fresh eyes with some fresh ideas and messages. Is Teague perfect? No way he is not but neither is any other coach and Teague just 40 games into his senior coaching career i am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and would at least like to see him get next year with some new assistants behind him. I dont believe his game plan is that bad. We havent copped any floggings yet and for 90% of most games were in them and should of won them so that tells me the plan stacks up for the most part. At this stage i would not be replacing him unless you are going to replace him some extraordinary like a Clarko or something. I dont believe Ross Lyon s the go as i was always bored watching St Kilda play when he coached because he was far to defensive. My opinion i think Teague should stay for now unless he has lost the players which i dont believe he has.

PLAYERS
Well this for me is 90% of our problem. We have a lot of C+ players on our list who in a good side would be struggling to be in their best 30 players. I have said this for quite some time now that i believe that the players that we have are barely coachable and that is being generous. I believe our team would probably rank lowest for footy IQ in the competition. Constantly making bad decisions, always just blazing away with the ball and no composure. I believe a lot of our players are struggling to mature. Nothing annoys me more when i see our players on the field doing stupid little handshakes and things . This tells me they have the maturity of a 12 year old. You dont see the good teams doing that crap. It honestly looks to me like these players treat every game as though they all getting together to go have a game of paintball. Semi serious but mainly just there for fun. Not bad when you can pull in a 6 figure slary along the way to doing it.
Their absolute defiance to pressure and tackle and run hard both ways is the biggest glaring issue for me. Absolute glory hunters the lot of them. Run hard in attack but nothing in defending. If i was Weitering and Jones i would hate the rest of my team mates. So my thoughts are is we have a bunch of immature, low footy IQ players and we are going to struggle. Effort doesnt need skill and most of our players bring none.

THE BOARD
Well the club is great in an off field position no problems there but quite honestly i dont give a crap. Onfield has been the biggest issue for a long time and its not getting better which the board is also responsible. for. For me there seems to be a real disconnect between administartion and footy department at that club. Carlton seem so worried about being the front runner for every known social issue on earth that it has completely forgotten what its main thing is and that is an Australian Rules Football club. I could not give a stuff about off field pull ya bloody head in and get this team to win some games. 1 underlying factor over all these years is that it has been the same people or mates of those people who think the same that have been in board positions this whole time. The club has not been successfull since the John Elliot era. And 1 thing that is a really really really huge issue for me is that now this club seems to just want to wipe its hands of our past achievements, heritage and players. After listening to Kouta and speaking with him he has not been back to the club in 14 years nor has he been invited to participate in anything at the club in that time and same goes for past players. I am no rocket scientist but would it not be a huge thing for present players to see some past premiership players and legends of the club hanging around to instill into these players what the club is all about. If i was a present player it would be a huge boost. I always remember Peter Dean saying after every game he never just took his guernsey off and threw it he always folded it and handed it to the property stewart. He loved that club. These players have none of that attitude. The board needs to worry more about promoting our heritage at the club and stop trying to be world leaders in every issue. To be honest i would not be disappointed to see a board challenge and some fresh faces. Maybe thats why they called this fake review because they see what is happening at Collingwood and they dont want the same at Carlton. Seriously something has to change there.

 

[Arr0w]

stop guarding space and turning your back/running away from the ball carrier when you're 5 metres away....

One in the same as corralling, just attack the ball/carrier

 

[Iamcarlton]

Getting desperate for the quick fix and trying to sign Ross Lyon without fixing all our other issues is SO Carlton.

Maybe it’ll work, but if it doesn’t we’ve been down this path so enough times to know the risks.

The more this goes on, the more I think we need a broom through all the same sorts who have been running the club the past 20 years. They’re out of ideas.

You may be right maybe a broom needs to go through the lot of them .

Id suggest that signing someone like Ross may go some way in sorting some of the issues we have if most do stay on .
He would not be putting up with Board meddling in football department areas nor CEO's the same in list management as has been the word of Liddle .
And most likely not over ruling fitness staff on selection as id suggest Teague has been doing for quite awhile and imo Bolton the same .
Would have players and staff completely clear as to what their jobs are and what is required .
That has to be a good thing and may sort who is up for dragging this club from the doldrums .

 

[cookie monster]

if hawks win today we will be equal second last on points.

season looked so promising at the start of the season but it is turning to sh*t as each week goes by. really depressing situation.

if teague does step down next year (as mentioned in the bluemour no discussion) i cant see who would be a good replacement.

we probably wont go with an unproven coach again so really only leaves clarko (very unlikely he'll come to us even on a godfather offer) and ross the boss who is playing hard to get.

i think the best option is that we get someone like a roos to sort out the joint and a prospective young coach to take over from roos in 2-3 years. a succession plan similar to what the dees did for goodwin.

I'm sorry but when did our season "look so promising"? Was it half time in the Richmond game?

Because I knew at half time of the Pies game that our season was cooked. I really did

 

[Iamcarlton]

I can’t see how Teague can be let go before the review? Would be a very bad look to preempt the review by making decisions before it has already started?

I agree as it will give us all an idea of what players are up for the fight .
Whether they have any respect for their own performances each other and the club .
There is still time to salvage some positives but time is fast running out imo .

 

[Accidental genius]

I'm sorry but when did our season "look so promising"? Was it half time in the Richmond game?

Because I knew at half time of the Pies game that our season was cooked. I really did

before the season started we were tipped to make the 8. as you say mid way into the tigers game we saw same old problems were still there. got worse as the season went on. in a real bad situation now. if true that teague offered to step down recently that is really dire for the club. even the coach has lost belief.

 

[cookie monster]

That has nothing to do with my post.

And again, all these clickbait terminologies. Losing culture, soft underbelly, poorly ingrained, etc

I mean, these were the same clickbait terms people were using about the Demons last year, Tigers of 2016, Cats in 2006, Saints 2009, Port 2 odd years ago.

The reasons they are used, is because people can't articulate the real reasons or analysis factually

So they use "the vibe"

Tigers in 2016 had made finals 3 of the 4 years prior
Cats in 2006 made a prelim the year before (missed GF by a kick)
Saints in 2009, were runners up??
Port similarly proven finalists over last 5 years.

Carlton haven't finished in the 8 for 10 years now.

And over the last 20 years we have competed in the finals 4 times for a total of 2 wins.

So why are you trying to compare us to the above teams? There is no similarity to be drawn.

Supporters have every right to be demanding better. Easily we have more right to be upset than any of the example teams you use above

 

[Dramoth]

Yeah agree it’s pronged, face facing and honorable for all parties, the messaging can be massaged and fit to suit both David and Club in a timely, reasonable manner.

I reckon that Teague could walk out of the club using his recent family loss as the reason for his departure. The club could actually massage the message like we did with the departure of Tom Bell.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

One in the same JAB.

You know all too well that sometimes it's difficult to step back and self assess either oneself or the greater level of responsibility and effectiveness

Changes, minor in many areas

Better identification of needs in our playing list. KPP and or ruckman (needs to be a threat resting forward), aggressive speed/runners, footskills. Natural hardness

Balanced gameplan, that the first point of call is defensive structures and contested ball. Use players, control the ball, rather than letting the ball speed and distance dictate the plan. +1 defensively, push 1 - 2 forwards to the backend of stoppages, 1-2 mids behind the stoppage

Unacceptable acts not tolerated by any one player. Nonnegotible traits and the selection criteria around these measures.

Stop trying to play best 22, play best player per position that benefits team, not individual

Initially, like next week, forgo corralling and attack the disputed ball/ball carrier. Stop running forward to anticipate gained possession, wait for that outcome, basic

Yep - only had to look at one of LOBs efforts yesterday at Port Melbourne. An elite runner, he basically jogged about 100+ metres along the wing watching the Port players string a series of handballs together. Made no attempt to tackle or pressure and ended with his player gut running and outsprinting our 'elite' runner to get the ball on their forward flank.

Summed up this problem we have of sides 'waltzing through our midfield'.

 

[Dramoth]

Sums Carlton Football 2021 perfectly. A whole generation of kids and grown up with Carlton being simply a pathetic participant award recipient.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Can you say St Kilda or Melbourne. Two generations of supporters for both clubs haven't seen a premiership cup. Footscray used to be the longest gap since winning a grand final. I think the Aint's and the Dees supporters would love to have won a grand final as recently as 25 years ago.

 

[jpfalvo]

before the season started we were tipped to make the 8. as you say mid way into the tigers game we saw same old problems were still there. got worse as the season went on. in a real bad situation now. if true that teague offered to step down recently that is really dire for the club. even the coach has lost belief.

80pts concede v stkilda in the practice game to half time. I went to that game, cane away flat

Alarm bells should have been ringing then. In retrospect our inability to defend has held up.

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

 

[Dramoth]

Yep - only had to look at one of LOBs efforts yesterday at Port Melbourne. An elite runner, he basically jogged about 100+ metres along the wing watching the Port players string a series of handballs together. Made no attempt to tackle or pressure and ended with his player gut running and outsprinting our 'elite' runner to get the ball on their forward flank.

Summed up this problem we have of sides 'waltzing through our midfield'.

I saw that, I reckon his job in that situation was to cover the break back into the corridor by Port. He paced himself to stay level with the Port ball carrier. He goes racing off after his opponent, and they could have switched the run through the corridor and overlapped our defence on the near side of the ground, but because he was there, they had to keep going forward along the wing. You do realise that is usually how teams break us down when we're trying to transition along the wing. They keep 1-2 players running in between the boundary and the centre square, and their defence closes down the inside-50 path along the flanks.

Did you notice that in that particular passage, Port had a number of players with no one near them until they got to the wing when we actually had players running to that flank to try and pick up the players who had got away from their Carlton opponents.

 

[gab213]

Sums Carlton Football 2021 perfectly. A whole generation of kids and grown up with Carlton being simply a pathetic participant award recipient.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

We went without a premiership between 1915-1938, then again from 1945-68,
this isn't a first that we're experiencing this sort of thing yet we survived and have still won the most Premierships.

It's infuriating and frustrating, it's no fun for anyone associated with the club but at some point, it will turn around, that's what keeps us supporting the club. It's not accepting mediocrity, it's love of the Club and holding on to some hope that it will get better.

Nobody is happy with participation but right at this point in time, what would you suggest that supporters do? Withdraw any support from the club and watch it die?