Roast Brett Ratten

[carlton_for_life]

It was the Houlihan of old today.................but he was good in the first 3 games...............he should escape criticism this week

Stevens shouldn't escape criticism

Fev shouldn't escape criticism

Hadley has been down for 2 weeks

Jacobs has to be replaced by Hampson............has to be replaced

Johnson is no good under pressure.............Scotland is clearly a better option now

If Wiggins goes.............Fisher must return

Joseph needs a rest

Grigg needs to believe in himself and allowed to run free

Ratten is the one who is struggling

Contradictory match committee selections, no alternate game plan, coaching for his own skin now

Wrong and and wrong.
Ratten is not the one who is struggling.
Stevens is our puff, every good side has a player like him. We need his silky skills and sublime finishing. He might be soft, but he has skills a lot of our players don't.

Fev is injured. He's playing on with an injury that is clearly hampering his performance. He shouldn't be criticised. The fact we have no other tall forward options should be criticised.

And why should Ratten get the blame.
Really the problem with the team is this. The players you mentioned
Hadley
Jacobs
Johnson
Wiggins
Hadley
Grigg
Joseph
(and quite a few others russell etc)
simply aren't as good as we would hope them to be.

Our top players are good, Murphy Gibbs Judd, Stevens (Fev when he's over his injury). It's just there's a bit of a gap with the rest.

 

[Jabso]

Why cant we handball and break the lines like Geelong do? We insist with short chip kicks into the pocket instead of running the ball through the corridor like Geelong.

Because you're not Geelong. Going wide has it's strengths and weaknesses just like going through the corridor does. If you want to scrutinise it constructively go ahead but just because it's not what Hawthorn or Geelong do doesn't mean it's not right. No team has won a premiership copying what the prior premiership team has done.

WE WILL BE 2-4

In two weeks all will be going backwards from last year if we keep going like we are, get that through your head. Today was an 8 point game after the loss to essendon. We have no excuses 3 x No. 1 pick with Judd and Fev. Watch the Collingwood game last night, Malthouse gets the absolute best out of his list they have no stars but can take down giants. We have a top 4 list on paper but Ratten can't seem to get even close to full potential out of his list. This is a real worry to me, I don't want to watch this list go to waste. Ratten lift your game or bring in a coach that can get 100% potential out of the list.

The criticisms many of you have on Ratten, are the exact same many pies fans criticise MM on. That's what has drawn me to this thread.

 

[Beloved]

And why should Ratten get the blame.
Really the problem with the team is this. The players you mentioned
Hadley
Jacobs
Johnson
Wiggins
Hadley
Grigg
Joseph
(and quite a few others russell etc)
simply aren't as good as we would hope them to be.

14 possessions with 100% accuracy not good enough? Holding O'Keefe all day not good enough?

 

[Cruiser23]

The criticisms many of you have on Ratten, are the exact same many pies fans criticise MM on. That's what has drawn me to this thread.

What are the common criticisms of Malthouse?

 

[The Exorcist]

Perhaps Rattan doesn't make enough changes, perhaps Rattan doesn't do this or that. He's only been coach for a little over 18 months, and if you look at where we were to where we are now I'd take Rattan any day. At least we're getting a lot more of the ball and seem to have some system to our play. the only thing I'd like to see Rattan do more often is make some more changes during the match and move the ball into the corridor once it hits our forward line (however, it's takes a highly skillful side to do this probably so the opposition doesn't rebound), however Rattan knows a lot more about footy than me and anyone else on this board.

Our list is still very young, it's not being "wasted." Our expectations should be to make the 8, and the bottom of the 8.

In the last two weeks it hasn't been possession of the ball that is the problem. It's converting that possession onto the scoreboard. The Blues wasted many opportunities early yesterday, and I don't see how the coach is to blame for bad kicking, especially when the boys were kicking well in the first two rounds. To me, it's largely to do with the players.

We've had a few passengers the last 2 weeks, too much being left to too few. Simple as that.

 

[windows]

I don't really blame Ratten for the shit kicking at goal and disposal by the players today, however I am concerned why he continues to play players who are downhill skiers and are clearly out of form, IE kade Simpson, Russell, and Chris Johnson, and not reward someone like Carlos, who has worked his arse off in the VFL, but not getting anyway rewards for his efforts ...

Having said that, if we don't play finals this year, Ratten should be sacked IMHO, and we should consider Mark Williams or John Worsfold as replacements (both premiership coaches on the outer at their clubs it seems)

Don't agree that Simpson is a downhill skier. I think he should move to the back pocket and give some steadiness. Johnson is a one trick pony and must be demoted. They must play more pure footballers like Scotland (when fit) and Browne. Tough, hard over the ball players. Problem is this week we play the masters at down hill skiing so it would be a mistake to swing too far the other way.

If we had Malthouse or Williams at the helm we'd be 4-0. Ratten craps on too much about bullshit. Builds pressure on the players 'remove the bad history' stuff. 'We've lost to this team so many times' etc. It is simply irrelevant. He needs them to focus on their ****ing process. Their gameplan. Raising that sort of emotive shit is just rubbish. He is too simple for this caper Ratten and we cant go far with him.

It was a mistake to extend his contract - he had proven nothing - and with Malthouse out of contract, with Buckley in the wings, we should have had a red hot go at both and get whoever falls out.

Poor strategy Swann & Pratt. Whatever happened to "I don't get the best available - if they were available then they aren't the best"? Ratten is a caretaker coach. A nice guy building good team morale and bringing people back to the club. BUT he will never win us a premiership and with that list only poor coaching would stop that.

Malthouse gets SO much out of a very average list. He turns duds into B graders and B graders into game breakers. Outstanding. Imposes so much discipline into the game plan. They simply don't make the same mistakes Carlton do. He drills in concentration, decision making, and adherence.

Ratten talks about eradicating a bad history and employs one way game plans.

The comparison is stark. If the clubs switched coaches the Pies would be bottom 4 and the Blues top 4.

 

[Winner]

Now, I don't mean this as a troll (I originally posted this on bay 13 but it has some worth) so I edited out the bits which were:

Ratten got completely out coached by Paul Roos yesterday and did not change a single thing the entire match, he spectated. Not once did he try to change something when it was clear he was going to lose at around half way through the third quarter. Rhys Shaw of all people completely carved up Carlton, Ratten didn't even attempt to stop him.

Another thing that is a sign of a poor coach, is when your team gets out to a lead in the first quarter and looks like dominating... then the opposition coach makes some moves and you don't respond. This has happened two weeks in a row. In the first quarter against Essendon, Carlton were significantly better and Knights started coaching, bam, Essendon came back and won. In the first quarter against Sydney, Carlton were significantly better and Roos started coaching, bam, Sydney came back and won.

I don't normally like to criticise coaches but Ratten reminds me of how I felt about Sheedy in his last few years, we would always come out firing then the opposition team would come back and Sheedy wouldn't respond.

 

[ESKIE]

Now, I don't mean this as a troll (I originally posted this on bay 13 but it has some worth) so I edited out the bits which were:

Ratten got completely out coached by Paul Roos yesterday and did not change a single thing the entire match, he spectated. Not once did he try to change something when it was clear he was going to lose at around half way through the third quarter. Rhys Shaw of all people completely carved up Carlton, Ratten didn't even attempt to stop him.

Another thing that is a sign of a poor coach, is when your team gets out to a lead in the first quarter and looks like dominating... then the opposition coach makes some moves and you don't respond. This has happened two weeks in a row. In the first quarter against Essendon, Carlton were significantly better and Knights started coaching, bam, Essendon came back and won. In the first quarter against Sydney, Carlton were significantly better and Roos started coaching, bam, Sydney came back and won.

I don't normally like to criticise coaches but Ratten reminds me of how I felt about Sheedy in his last few years, we would always come out firing then the opposition team would come back and Sheedy wouldn't respond.

Sorry don;t agree, inaccuracy infront of goal cost us, the old scoreboard pressure.

 

[alex the great]

Can anyone tell me why we are so shit scared of going down the middle???

We always go way wide on the flanks and for two weeks in a row now we've been exposed badly. Essendon because they went straight down the corridor and pulled our pants down and Sydney because SCG is so small and going wide gives them ample time to get back into the forward.

Straight down the middle FFS!

The clock is ticking for Ratten.

did you forget your meds this morning

 

[Kaladin Stormblessed]

Don't agree that Simpson is a downhill skier. I think he should move to the back pocket and give some steadiness. Johnson is a one trick pony and must be demoted. They must play more pure footballers like Scotland (when fit) and Browne. Tough, hard over the ball players. Problem is this week we play the masters at down hill skiing so it would be a mistake to swing too far the other way.

If we had Malthouse or Williams at the helm we'd be 4-0. Ratten craps on too much about bullshit. Builds pressure on the players 'remove the bad history' stuff. 'We've lost to this team so many times' etc. It is simply irrelevant. He needs them to focus on their ****ing process. Their gameplan. Raising that sort of emotive shit is just rubbish. He is too simple for this caper Ratten and we cant go far with him.

It was a mistake to extend his contract - he had proven nothing - and with Malthouse out of contract, with Buckley in the wings, we should have had a red hot go at both and get whoever falls out.

Poor strategy Swann & Pratt. Whatever happened to "I don't get the best available - if they were available then they aren't the best"? Ratten is a caretaker coach. A nice guy building good team morale and bringing people back to the club. BUT he will never win us a premiership and with that list only poor coaching would stop that.

Malthouse gets SO much out of a very average list. He turns duds into B graders and B graders into game breakers. Outstanding. Imposes so much discipline into the game plan. They simply don't make the same mistakes Carlton do. He drills in concentration, decision making, and adherence.

Ratten talks about eradicating a bad history and employs one way game plans.

The comparison is stark. If the clubs switched coaches the Pies would be bottom 4 and the Blues top 4.

Absolutely spot on.

He has got a shit game plan by going wide on the wings all the time, players don't know where to position themselves, poor structures and he is too static in the coach's box. There is not one game I can say where any of his tactics were responsible for us winning the game apart from getting the players to tackle a lot in the first couple of rounds.

He is a great bloke Ratts and I love him to death but he's give us nothing (ok, not much) as coach IMO. Like you said, apart from lifting the morale of the club and bringing the 'Carlton of old back' he hasn't done much on the field now with two full pre-seasons. He seems like he has gone too far the other way with Pagan who was very harsh, strict and an arseh*le with players and Ratts has gone the opposite (being very nice, caring with the players) in a hope of it working (I have nothing to subtantiate this, just perceptions).

Dunno what we were thinking extending his contract, we were bound to improve last year by adding Judd, Stevens, Kreuzer and Pagan being gone. There is not many coaches in the AFL you would say Ratten is definitely better than. Only Harvey, Wallace and maybe Bailey. Malthouse is maybe a bit too old to but I would love to see Williams in-charge.

Having said all of that, for the good of this club and Ratten being such a good bloke, I hope to hell he can prove me wrong; nothing more would please me but please man, just show us some coaching nous!

 

[Kaladin Stormblessed]

did you forget your meds this morning

Maybe I should amend that to: "clock should be ticking for Ratten but isn't because he is one of our favourite sons".

 

[blue gunslinger]

No it is not because he is a fav son
It is beacuse football people know that a young and developing squad will be inconsistent. But we are taking the necessary steps to achieve the ultimate goal.
Give the team and coaches time

 

[alex the great]

No it is not because he is a fav son
It is beacuse football people know that a young and developing squad will be inconsistent. But we are taking the necessary steps to achieve the ultimate goal.
Give the team and coaches time

I think alot of people think we will finish top 4 after beating a crap tiges side and bears down here, what they should remember is we are a team on the up and will be inconsistent over the next year or so as half of our players were in nappies when we won in 95 ffs. we are young and lets enjoy the ride and not get pathetic and talk about dropping half the side after 2 close losses against teams that for the last 10 years beat us more often than not!

 

[Juddanaught]

Don't agree that Simpson is a downhill skier. I think he should move to the back pocket and give some steadiness. Johnson is a one trick pony and must be demoted. They must play more pure footballers like Scotland (when fit) and Browne. Tough, hard over the ball players. Problem is this week we play the masters at down hill skiing so it would be a mistake to swing too far the other way.

If we had Malthouse or Williams at the helm we'd be 4-0. Ratten craps on too much about bullshit. Builds pressure on the players 'remove the bad history' stuff. 'We've lost to this team so many times' etc. It is simply irrelevant. He needs them to focus on their ****ing process. Their gameplan. Raising that sort of emotive shit is just rubbish. He is too simple for this caper Ratten and we cant go far with him.

It was a mistake to extend his contract - he had proven nothing - and with Malthouse out of contract, with Buckley in the wings, we should have had a red hot go at both and get whoever falls out.

Poor strategy Swann & Pratt. Whatever happened to "I don't get the best available - if they were available then they aren't the best"? Ratten is a caretaker coach. A nice guy building good team morale and bringing people back to the club. BUT he will never win us a premiership and with that list only poor coaching would stop that.

Malthouse gets SO much out of a very average list. He turns duds into B graders and B graders into game breakers. Outstanding. Imposes so much discipline into the game plan. They simply don't make the same mistakes Carlton do. He drills in concentration, decision making, and adherence.

Ratten talks about eradicating a bad history and employs one way game plans.

The comparison is stark. If the clubs switched coaches the Pies would be bottom 4 and the Blues top 4.

Totally agree 100%. I may have been overeacting slighty yesterday after watching the game but I can't see how alot of you guys can stand the rubbish that the players and the coaching staff have dished up in the last two weeks. Carlton have been terrible for so long that supporters put up with mediocre preformances. I really hope im wrong and we can bounce back strong against the dogs.

 

[piere]

I think you make some valid points. But at the same time, ratten coaching has to be questioned. I have noticed when carlton gets under pressure. They dont react with taking the game on. THEY GO WIDE, AND piss fart around. Also under pressure some players have very average disposal .

THis is eithier a ability thing and or our players cannot respond to pressure accordingly. This is where the coaching staff come in. Good disposal is learnt from being under pressure time and time again.And then practising these skills with the specific game plan. Which is?

PLayers who costantly make mistakes under preesure are.

Johson, Russell, simpson. Waite.Thorton. The last four have been in the system long enough. Is it the fact that simply our second tier players are not good enough? Also Ratten in pre season has put emphasiis on tackling pressure. Were has that gonE? Were is the pressure inside 50 that results in turnovers? Are they doing what Ratten is saying? Are they capable to do it? Is it mental?

Ratten to me, is tactically inept so far in changing the game as it unfolds.Yesterday were was his counter moves on roos? Totally outcouched in last 2 games. Does not react with different game plan?
The proof is in the pudding? These are the teams we should be beating if we are to challenge for the 8. Personally i dont think we are good enough, including coaching staff. Have we another game plan?

We are not capable of playing high intensity football under pressure, that what wins AFL games of football.Simple. We need to find players who can do this. I hate to say it but a lot of our players at this stage are not capabale of doing it. It is both an ability thing and Mental.

I want Ratten to be honest with himself, and not say it was just our poor kicking. It wasnt, it was our poor decision making, our inabilty to put pressure on the man at crucial time. At our inability to adapt and play through the swans game plan.Why? Simply not good enough do it for 120 minutes. Thats the truth!

 

[Gibba]

Lol, what...Brisbane and Melbourne? Truly giants of the competition.

Not just this year, their year in 2007 was amazing. It was probably the best coached season of a team during this modern era.

 

[Gibba]

We are not capable of playing high intensity football under pressure, that what wins AFL games of football.Simple. We need to find players who can do this. I hate to say it but a lot of our players at this stage are not capabale of doing it. It is both an ability thing and Mental.

Totally agree, classy midfielders like Stevens and Gibbs may seem prolific with their disposal when given time and space but seem average when there is pressure applied to them. Only Murphy can be excused in this case, i hope Gibbs can prove me wrong though.

 

[Alpha1]

I find threads like this about a coach in only his second year, with a very young team a bit of a joke. Truth is we might finish between 6 - 10, our list is still a work in progress. We have too many unaccountable players, who are taking things for granted and the sooner we get rid of them the better. Our last 2 weeks has been pathetic, but hey we are 2-2. We have a hard few weeks coming up but times like these can make a great great team. From the fire emerges the champions, and we have a few good kids who will stand up in the next few weeks, bookmark it.

 

[sherb]

I may have been overeacting slighty yesterday after watching the game

You don't say....

but I can't see how alot of you guys can stand the rubbish that the players and the coaching staff have dished up in the last two weeks. Carlton have been terrible for so long that supporters put up with mediocre preformances.

Err, how exactly do you infer that?

Just because some of us stay calm and don't go off on over-the-top rants about the coach and/or certain players after a loss doesn't mean we are accepting of poor performances.

Or do we have to come on here and vent after a loss to prove how much we hurt and how "unaccepting" we are? (That is the reason I rarely post here any more to be honest, I can't stand the negative crap after a loss).

Your assessment of your fellow supporters is pretty unfair to be honest.

 

[Yubby]

I try to watch every match of a weekend and have seen most of the games so far this year... would anyone else agree that its fair to say we kick backwards or around out defensive 50 more than any other team?

Biggest thing for me was a lack of intensity, it seemed out boys would be 1-2 metres away and not go in hard to challenge for the ball. We need more of the big name players to win contested footy when it counts if we are going to beat the teams who have been playing finals footy consistently.

That said, now that i've checked the stats, we have had more contested possessions than each of our opponents in every round so far.

 

[I LOVE THE CFC]

The blame game.....somethings never change.

Ratts is a dam fine coach and threads like this are stupid to say the least.


4 games played 50/50 so far.....sitting 5th!


5th!!!!

Calm down!

 

[thylacine60]

The blame game.....somethings never change.

Ratts is a dam fine coach and threads like this are stupid to say the least.


4 games played 50/50 so far.....sitting 5th!


5th!!!!

Calm down!

I blah-blah-blame you.

 

[Warsaw]

Yep, am pretty sure the Hawthorn board are calling for Clarko's head after a 1-3 start. This is all perfect logical sense.

 

[Blue Bawls]

Scuse my ignorance, I wasn't at the match committee meeting when they discussed Plan 9 for Creating Space. However, I remember Ratts saying in the media last week that he expected the suffocation specialists to try to choke up our free-running style, and smash us in the stoppages.

"We have to be prepared for that constant combat, you could say, the one-on-one, ball in tight, win your own footy, that will just be replayed over and over again," Ratten said. "There were a few glaring things which we've gone through with the team and if we get that right, without the footy, we'll be a lot better. I don't want to give too much away, but just the way we set up really allowed (Essendon) to expose us at times, so that was really disappointing. It's about our positioning."

"The Swans, to their credit, just grind you and grind you . . . they're a very good team. They have been a team that's absolutely mauled teams in the way that they played."

To me this looks like he came up with a plan to counter that blanket pressure, and I would suggest it involved trying to create space out on the wings, but our execution on an unfamiliar ground was well below par. Once they got their noses in front, through our poor kicking, they were able to bottle us up.

So smashing Ratts is ridiculous.

 

[I LOVE THE CFC]

Sack Ratts...He has to go we have been calling for his head since round 3...

If he doesn't get the boot then I am burning my membership!

We cannot except losing 2 in a row....bring back Pagan.