Brownlow Medal

[coasting]

None of our players have ever won it but does anyone know how many times we have had a player come in 2nd? Last year Ben Cousins was technically a runner up (even though there were 3 winners) and I think both Peter Matera and Craig Turley have both been 2nd or equal 2nd? Has there been anyone else?

 

[Altum Volantes]

Yeah Turley second in 1991, Matera second in 1994 and 4th in 1991- and I'm pretty sure Roo went close in other years too - I can also recall Bluey also going pretty well one year there.

 

[carlyp]

Originally posted by Black JuJu
Yeah Turley second in 1991, Matera second in 1994 and 4th in 1991- and I'm pretty sure Roo went close in other years too - I can also recall Bluey also going pretty well one year there.

Matera was a runnerup in 1997 too

 

[Exeter]

I've always wondered why Dean Kemp never seemed to poll many votes.

Great player but probably too unassuming.

 

[GoEagles]

Originally posted by Exeter
I've always wondered why Dean Kemp never seemed to poll many votes.

Great player but probably too unassuming.

Probably was robbed for votes by Matera, Mainwaring, Cousins and all the other main midfielders.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Originally posted by carlyp
Matera was a runnerup in 1997 too

Most AFL books list him as 3rd, as McKernan (or was it Grant that year?) finished above him, but was ineligible due to suspension. Still, if I remember correctly, that year was when he moved into defence and he had a stunning season.

 

[coasting]

Three times runner up. Thanks for that. Its a shame we didn't have a winner in the early 1990s when we dominated. Do you think anyone currently at the club is capable of winning one? Its unfortunate for Ben Cousins that his career peaked when we weren't any good. Only midfielders win so I think Judd is probably our next best chance.

 

[Mead]

Originally posted by coasting
Three times runner up. Thanks for that. Its a shame we didn't have a winner in the early 1990s when we dominated. Do you think anyone currently at the club is capable of winning one? Its unfortunate for Ben Cousins that his career peaked when we weren't any good. Only midfielders win so I think Judd is probably our next best chance.

??!
On what basis would you suggest that Cousins' career has peaked? I This year was, imnsho, his best to date which would suggest he's got better to come.
If you look around the league at the 6-7 other 'elite' midfielder/captains, (i'm talking Voss, Buckley, Ricciuto and arguably Bell), they're all got several years on Cuz. If anything, I would say 26-28 is about the optimum period for a midfielder, when they still have all their pace and athleticism, their fitness is at its highest level, and they have mature bodies and enough experience to excel at reading the play. Cousins is just entering that period, so it'd be reasonable expect for him to have his best ahead of him. If West Coast continue to improve as a team, he's certainly a very very good chance to win one- he's a high stat getter, proven leader on field, and (lets be honest) the umpires all seem to be desperately in love with him.
I'd go as far as to say that a fit Cousins for 22 rounds + 14 or more WC wins in a season at any point in the next three years, and Cousins would be even money to win one.

As for Judd, his best is absolutely devastating, and his potential to put together obviously game winning performances would definitely translate into a lot of "3 votes, C. Judd", but I'd say that recent history seems to suggest that Brownlows go to high volume, ultra consistent ball winners- the last 'Juddish' player to win it was Acka. Imo, for Judd to win one, he has to produce his best each week, at this stage, he simply hasn't got Cousins' capacity to rack up 25 touches a game week in, week out all year, and thats what gets high numbers of votes over the year. (If he does learn to become a consistent ball magnet like Cousins, that, allied with his freakish skills and pace could make him one of the greatest players of the modern era)

 

[Exeter]

Interesting assessment Mead.

On the basis of your second paragraph, how do you rate Kerr's prospects?

 

[smilingassassin]

They'd have won it playing for Vic teams.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that both Matera and Cousins would have won Brownlows if they had been playing for Melbourne teams.

There's no way the umpires are not affected by all the hype of the mainstream media personalities who are mainly Victorians.

Still, I'm just glad these two out and out champions are Eagles.

 

[Mead]

Originally posted by Exeter
Interesting assessment Mead.

On the basis of your second paragraph, how do you rate Kerr's prospects?

Actually, I was a bit disappointed with Kerr's output last season. He's probably up there with Cousins and Judd in the raw talent stakes but his lack of fitness and consistency means he's been somewhat superseded by the likes of FLletcher and Embley. What I like about from him (aside from those beautiful, 40m handpasses straight to a teammate), is that he's a scrapper who gets in and under. and more than any other midfielder in our team, he gets better as the game gets tougher.
At this stage, I'd put a huge question mark over his cardiovascular fitness- Looks utterly stuffed midway through a lot of games, and I don't think he ever strung together 4 excellent quarters this year. I suspect very much this has something to do with the amount of cancer sticks he puffs on, and if that is so, then Cousins had better give him a few more punches in the head. I'd say Fletcher is closer to winning a brownlow than Kerr is.

 

[coasting]

I didn't mean that he is getting worse, just that he isn't getting any better... and so has 'peaked'. 2001 was Cousins best year IMO. Having said that, I think his best game was the 2002 Adelaide game at Subiaco when he had 16 disposals in the first quarter.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Originally posted by coasting
I didn't mean that he is getting worse, just that he isn't getting any better... and so has 'peaked'. 2001 was Cousins best year IMO. Having said that, I think his best game was the 2002 Adelaide game at Subiaco when he had 16 disposals in the first quarter.

Getting better doesn't mean getting more possessions. Cousins has become a real onfield leader, stands up in important parts of matches more often than he used to, and works hard to actually use the ball creatively rather than just bomb it down the field. Of course, these things are all more evident when you're actually at the game and can see the finer details of onfield happenings, so its not something opposition supporters will quickly point out (rather, they will point to his stats and say he had an average 2003 season by his standards).

 

[USAEagle]

Does Kerr Smoke?

How do you know?

I would be very surprised if he did.

 

[Mead]

Originally posted by USAEagle
Does Kerr Smoke?

How do you know?

I would be very surprised if he did.

I'm pretty sure he does, I've heard two or three entirely unrelated people all say as much, including two who saw him in clubs puffing on one. He certainly wouldn't be the first AFL player to be a heavy smoker.

I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt, but yeah, seems like amazing coincidence to have several people say the same thing, and it would explain his lack of fitness.

 

[RogerMellie]

Didn't hurt Matera's career any.

 

[Altum Volantes]

Originally posted by RogerMellie
Didn't hurt Matera's career any.

Maybe it helped ?

Perhaps they should ALL try smoking so they can emulate the career of the great man.

Seriously though, i doubt smoking is a big issue for Kerr - more likely a few injuries in '03 slowing him down. Kept on keeping on in 01 and 02 if I remember right.

He'll be right.

 

[Exeter]

Originally posted by Mead
Actually, I was a bit disappointed with Kerr's output last season. He's probably up there with Cousins and Judd in the raw talent stakes but his lack of fitness and consistency means he's been somewhat superseded by the likes of FLletcher and Embley. What I like about from him (aside from those beautiful, 40m handpasses straight to a teammate), is that he's a scrapper who gets in and under. and more than any other midfielder in our team, he gets better as the game gets tougher.
At this stage, I'd put a huge question mark over his cardiovascular fitness- Looks utterly stuffed midway through a lot of games, and I don't think he ever strung together 4 excellent quarters this year. I suspect very much this has something to do with the amount of cancer sticks he puffs on, and if that is so, then Cousins had better give him a few more punches in the head. I'd say Fletcher is closer to winning a brownlow than Kerr is.

Interesting point about his fitness, he does seem to have some difficurunning out a game, but they may also be attributable in aprt to the fact that he often goes extremely hard early in the game. Either way, I would have thought that it's something the coaching staff would be aware of and are taking steps to rectify. If i was paying someone 6 figures to perform I reckon I'd have the right to say quit smoking (if indeed he is). Also Matera I think was a hangover from the days when players did smoke and drink a bit and by the time the game had changed in the late nineties he was probably too old to change - just a thought.

Disgaree with you on kerr being overtaken by Fletcher and Embley - I think its just that they've stepped up. Kerr is still only young (20?) and IMO has the potential to be more valuable than Cousins to the team (waits for slings and arrows). From the first year i saw him play, I had him pencilled in as a future Brownlow.

 

[Goldenblue]

Judd will win a medal when he is back playing for a Victorian Side.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Originally posted by Goldenblue
Judd will win a medal when he is back playing for a Victorian Side.

Not another conspiracy theorist Guess how many of the last 5 Brownlow Medallists play for a Victoria team...

 

[DanielKerr4]

I think Gardy is our next big chance, a full season in the ruck and i think he will poll very well.

Dont know about Kerr ever winning one, can't see it happening because he is an in and under player and isnt as flashy as others in our midfield(i.e Cousins, Judd and Fletcher).

Im suprised that he has been dubbed a smoker, i dont think it will affect his performances too much otherwise it would have become obvious by now.
Cheers