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Cain Ackland

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Otiman

Otiman

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Just wondering what peoples thoughts on him are.

It seems to me his hitouts arent well directed enough or he's too easy to read. Our centre clearances are pretty shocking at times.

Great utility player and is good value around the packs and in the air.
 
another port reject, why you guys pick them up is amazing really. Thats why you havent taken the next step imo, 1 is you coach you needs to get guys with tactical skill around him, 2, is you have your high first round guns like riewoldt, ball, dal santo, kosi etc, but havent got value with your later picks to gets some real quality. After you stars the quality drops off badly, and is mainly filled with port and brisbane rejects. Alot depends on ball and when players like harvey go down you struggle. Saying that if you actually get all your talls on the park the midfield doesnt need to be that great.
 
outback jack said:
another port reject, why you guys pick them up is amazing really. Thats why you havent taken the next step imo, 1 is you coach you needs to get guys with tactical skill around him, 2, is you have your high first round guns like riewoldt, ball, dal santo, kosi etc, but havent got value with your later picks to gets some real quality. After you stars the quality drops off badly, and is mainly filled with port and brisbane rejects. Alot depends on ball and when players like harvey go down you struggle. Saying that if you actually get all your talls on the park the midfield doesnt need to be that great.
Click to expand...

This isn't meant to be a personal thing outback jack so don't take it as an attack ok..peace buddy! :)

but there is a problem on this site of people just spouting out 'public opinion' without actually being informed of the issue, it seems to happen a lot to st kilda too, anyway you need to give us examples of where, as you put it, we haven't got good value with our later picks, because personally i think you don't really know what your talking about but it sounds good so you pretend to be an expert(not uncommon in these parts). So where have we not got value with our later picks, or more importantly, how are we so much worse than other clubs??

My personal opinion (of course will be bias, as everyone on this site is) is that we have got pretty good quality out of our later picks and that if you actually looked at our list, instead of just going off the top of your head and not being able to get past the likes of riewoldt, ball etc.. (hard i know they are great and lucky for us we have a few of them, unlucky for those of us that actually had to sit and watch the games of footy that lead us to drafting these guys, rather than a lot of 'expert fans' who turn up when we start winning then demand answers when we loose a few games) sorry getting off track, you would find that we don't go so badly.

hhmmm...we have sam fisher, who in his third (or second?) year is definalty a senior player and a guy who can play key back and key forward, he's not a super star but geez he's a good solid player, only a few diamonds are found in the roughs of the later picks, sammy is definalty worthy of a pick 55.

Leigh fisher, who as been publicised lately, not many at the saints would not have him in our best 22 if he could get on the park, never had any injuries at all untill he started afl then has had a horror run, worse than kosi probably, he's a gun and will surprise many when he gets on the park.

I think a young man by the name of Austinn jones was a pretty handy player to draft at 48, don't know about you but i'd be pretty happy with that selection.

Milne off the rookie list is no star i agree but certinaly quality for a rookie player, definatly worth the choice. Montagna is a player who i think is unlucky he plays with us, he would probably get better opportunities elsewhere with less balls dal santos etc...still have not seen the best of joey. Damn Schwarze, bless him, he's a stayer, him and Thompson are no super stars but have outlasted many coaches and in thompsons case, not a jet, not a beautiful kick but he's a survivor and that's why we love him.

anywho, thats' a few examples of players who were 'late picks' who are definate quality, not super stars (not many clubs find a james hird or chris grant) but definate afl players. I agree with you we have a lot of recycled players but they are are certinaly more than rejects, I would encourage you to have an obective look at our list, we're doing alright if we can get them on the damn park!!!.

RE: Ackland, couldn't be happier with him, been great for us this year, i believe wayne carey refered to him as one of the recruits of the year, thats a bit far but i've been very very impressed with him.
** Sorry for the long reply!!!!!!!****
 
I reckon he has been a revelation

He arrived as an injury prone ruckman with a big question mark on his work ethic but he's been fantastic.

I think you are pretty spot with your criticism of him Otiman but ruckman usually develop much later than midfielders. He's mobile around the ground and provides a strong option but does turn the ball over a little too often. I just think that for a 23 year old ruckman with only 25 AFL games to his credit to have held the #1 ruck spot all season we should be delighted with his efforts.

Kosi showed how important he is to us last week and Thomo has signalled his intention to play him in the ruck so Cain will finally have some much needed assistance. That can only help him.
 

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narthola_04 said:
This isn't meant to be a personal thing outback jack so don't take it as an attack ok..peace buddy! :)

but there is a problem on this site of people just spouting out 'public opinion' without actually being informed of the issue, it seems to happen a lot to st kilda too, anyway you need to give us examples of where, as you put it, we haven't got good value with our later picks, because personally i think you don't really know what your talking about but it sounds good so you pretend to be an expert(not uncommon in these parts). So where have we not got value with our later picks, or more importantly, how are we so much worse than other clubs??

My personal opinion (of course will be bias, as everyone on this site is) is that we have got pretty good quality out of our later picks and that if you actually looked at our list, instead of just going off the top of your head and not being able to get past the likes of riewoldt, ball etc.. (hard i know they are great and lucky for us we have a few of them, unlucky for those of us that actually had to sit and watch the games of footy that lead us to drafting these guys, rather than a lot of 'expert fans' who turn up when we start winning then demand answers when we loose a few games) sorry getting off track, you would find that we don't go so badly.

hhmmm...we have sam fisher, who in his third (or second?) year is definalty a senior player and a guy who can play key back and key forward, he's not a super star but geez he's a good solid player, only a few diamonds are found in the roughs of the later picks, sammy is definalty worthy of a pick 55.

Leigh fisher, who as been publicised lately, not many at the saints would not have him in our best 22 if he could get on the park, never had any injuries at all untill he started afl then has had a horror run, worse than kosi probably, he's a gun and will surprise many when he gets on the park.

I think a young man by the name of Austinn jones was a pretty handy player to draft at 48, don't know about you but i'd be pretty happy with that selection.

Milne off the rookie list is no star i agree but certinaly quality for a rookie player, definatly worth the choice. Montagna is a player who i think is unlucky he plays with us, he would probably get better opportunities elsewhere with less balls dal santos etc...still have not seen the best of joey. Damn Schwarze, bless him, he's a stayer, him and Thompson are no super stars but have outlasted many coaches and in thompsons case, not a jet, not a beautiful kick but he's a survivor and that's why we love him.

anywho, thats' a few examples of players who were 'late picks' who are definate quality, not super stars (not many clubs find a james hird or chris grant) but definate afl players. I agree with you we have a lot of recycled players but they are are certinaly more than rejects, I would encourage you to have an obective look at our list, we're doing alright if we can get them on the damn park!!!.

RE: Ackland, couldn't be happier with him, been great for us this year, i believe wayne carey refered to him as one of the recruits of the year, thats a bit far but i've been very very impressed with him.
** Sorry for the long reply!!!!!!!****
Click to expand...


yes i havent looked at it very closely, so i probably have no right to comment, but imo unless you're trading with freo its probably not worth picking up rejects, esp from port and brisbane and they dont let good players go.

Ackland is good now, but the question will be in two or three yrs, cause apparently at port there were issues with his rehabilitation (lack of) and preparation to get himself in his best possible knick. Saying that port are very harsh on some rookies, giving them very limited opportunities. Its much the same as gurrea imo, who was good for a bit, but is just a player and probably always will be now. They have to able to sustain the standard.

Looking at you list most are first rounders anyway. But imo you wont win premierships with guys like Jones, Gurrea, Montagna, Murrary, Powell, McGough, Schwarze and baker. Maybe a bit hard on baker, but these other types are just players or HBF's or HFF's of no particular quality.

Anyway, i coming from a crows perspective and we have plenty of these HBF types that arent in that top quality like a massie or ladhams and need the chop asap as well. If you're a HBF or pocket anything along those lines you have to be quality.

Going back to austin jones is taking it a bit far too ;) Need to snag someone like a johncock for us, even though our recruiting is a bit average too. Basically just need to take the pressure off you're guns which are very good, but taking alot of the load. Same thing has happened to us this yr, releasing players like macca, NC made other players take the load and if they cant they dont play.
 
narthola_04 said:
This isn't meant to be a personal thing outback jack so don't take it as an attack ok..peace buddy! :)

but there is a problem on this site of people just spouting out 'public opinion' without actually being informed of the issue, it seems to happen a lot to st kilda too, anyway you need to give us examples of where, as you put it, we haven't got good value with our later picks, because personally i think you don't really know what your talking about but it sounds good so you pretend to be an expert(not uncommon in these parts). So where have we not got value with our later picks, or more importantly, how are we so much worse than other clubs??

My personal opinion (of course will be bias, as everyone on this site is) is that we have got pretty good quality out of our later picks and that if you actually looked at our list, instead of just going off the top of your head and not being able to get past the likes of riewoldt, ball etc.. (hard i know they are great and lucky for us we have a few of them, unlucky for those of us that actually had to sit and watch the games of footy that lead us to drafting these guys, rather than a lot of 'expert fans' who turn up when we start winning then demand answers when we loose a few games) sorry getting off track, you would find that we don't go so badly.

hhmmm...we have sam fisher, who in his third (or second?) year is definalty a senior player and a guy who can play key back and key forward, he's not a super star but geez he's a good solid player, only a few diamonds are found in the roughs of the later picks, sammy is definalty worthy of a pick 55.

Leigh fisher, who as been publicised lately, not many at the saints would not have him in our best 22 if he could get on the park, never had any injuries at all untill he started afl then has had a horror run, worse than kosi probably, he's a gun and will surprise many when he gets on the park.

I think a young man by the name of Austinn jones was a pretty handy player to draft at 48, don't know about you but i'd be pretty happy with that selection.

Milne off the rookie list is no star i agree but certinaly quality for a rookie player, definatly worth the choice. Montagna is a player who i think is unlucky he plays with us, he would probably get better opportunities elsewhere with less balls dal santos etc...still have not seen the best of joey. Damn Schwarze, bless him, he's a stayer, him and Thompson are no super stars but have outlasted many coaches and in thompsons case, not a jet, not a beautiful kick but he's a survivor and that's why we love him.

anywho, thats' a few examples of players who were 'late picks' who are definate quality, not super stars (not many clubs find a james hird or chris grant) but definate afl players. I agree with you we have a lot of recycled players but they are are certinaly more than rejects, I would encourage you to have an obective look at our list, we're doing alright if we can get them on the damn park!!!.

RE: Ackland, couldn't be happier with him, been great for us this year, i believe wayne carey refered to him as one of the recruits of the year, thats a bit far but i've been very very impressed with him.
** Sorry for the long reply!!!!!!!****
Click to expand...

Might even be worth noting that Matt Maguire was pick 21. I know thats hardly DEEP in the draft but I bet there's a few clubs that are kicking themselves for over-looking him. Could have been top 10 - has all the qualities of a star in the making.
 
saintsrule said:
Maguire was pick 31! Absolute bargain!
Click to expand...

He was pick 21 but a bargain nonetheless.

2001 draft

#2 Ball
#5 X Clarke
#13 Dal Santo
#21 Maguire
#37 Montagna

Young Bevo earned his money that year.

Those that attribute any success we may have solely to the priority draft picks could do worse than to look at our recruiting in a little more detail.
 
You've got him playing and kept him playing which is more than we could ever do. Credit has to be given there.
He has looked good for you and would have come at a bargain price I'm sure. So again well done.
To complete the fairy tale you now need to see him develop into something even better.
 
outback jack said:
yes i havent looked at it very closely, so i probably have no right to comment, but imo unless you're trading with freo its probably not worth picking up rejects, esp from port and brisbane and they dont let good players go.

....
Click to expand...

More research needed by you dopey...Port used 9 players in last years GF that had started their career at other clubs.

Didn't hurt their cause.
 

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Ghost, we've done this topic to death in several threads.

Knobel is a good honest trier who is not blessed with an abundance of talent, but he is big, strong and gutsy. He is a fair tap ruckman but is unfortunately not particularly skilled in his disposal by foot or by hand and becomes a liability when not rucking.

We miss his height and strength, but we are more than adequately compensated for our loss by the more agile Ackland. Ackland is a midfielder as well as a ruckman and his forays down forward have seen a few outstanding marks and very competent goal-kicking. Ackland has carried the St Kilda ruck almost single-handedly and whilst not outstanding as a tap ruckman, he has performed the duties at least as well as Knobel did.

The upshot is: we don't regret shedding Knobel, we love Ackland.
 
mob said:
More research needed by you dopey...Port used 9 players in last years GF that had started their career at other clubs.

Didn't hurt their cause.
Click to expand...


yes it did, its hurting them now. And it is a slightly different case, where port and the crows get SA players that are quality coming back to SA (ie pickett, wanganeen, wakelin) they are quality, the saints get rejected players. And you will find that players that actually counted like tredrea, the cornes', wilson, lade, brogan, james etc were all either from their inital squad or drafted, most with high picks. So i hope you see the difference...
 
panthers said:
ACKLAND>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>brogan,>>>>>>lade,>>>>>>>primus
Click to expand...
Brogan - Premiership winning ruckman
Lade - Premiership winning ruckman
Primus - At the tail end of his career and captaincy. But prior to injury and rule changes he dominated the competition as an inspirational captain and a multiple All-Australian ruckman.

Ackland has a long way to go to emulate let alone beat any of these guys. In doing so has to remember he could have been a cemented-in AFL player at Port 4 years ago.
Maybe it will happen that his career eclipses theirs. But I suggest hold the hyperbole and see if he is more than a one year story.
 
StKildonan said:
Ghost, we've done this topic to death in several threads.

Knobel is a good honest trier who is not blessed with an abundance of talent, but he is big, strong and gutsy. He is a fair tap ruckman but is unfortunately not particularly skilled in his disposal by foot or by hand and becomes a liability when not rucking.

We miss his height and strength, but we are more than adequately compensated for our loss by the more agile Ackland. Ackland is a midfielder as well as a ruckman and his forays down forward have seen a few outstanding marks and very competent goal-kicking. Ackland has carried the St Kilda ruck almost single-handedly and whilst not outstanding as a tap ruckman, he has performed the duties at least as well as Knobel did.

The upshot is: we don't regret shedding Knobel, we love Ackland.
Click to expand...
Fair enough! everyone is happy then! :D
 

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Must say i thought Ackland was total rubbish at Port Adelaide. Saw him in the maggies just about every week and he was fecking hopeless. More than happy to see him going well at the Saints.
 
outback jack said:
yes it did, its hurting them now. And it is a slightly different case, where port and the crows get SA players that are quality coming back to SA (ie pickett, wanganeen, wakelin) they are quality, the saints get rejected players. And you will find that players that actually counted like tredrea, the cornes', wilson, lade, brogan, james etc were all either from their inital squad or drafted, most with high picks. So i hope you see the difference...
Click to expand...
Gehrig and Hamill head up the list of recycled Saints, and I doubt that too many would rate them as rejects. ;)
 
Otiman said:
Just wondering what peoples thoughts on him are.

It seems to me his hitouts arent well directed enough or he's too easy to read. Our centre clearances are pretty shocking at times.

Great utility player and is good value around the packs and in the air.
Click to expand...

i think we should give him time to settle in with the club and i also think that he will be an important ruckman to the side in time to come.because if you look at it this way we dont have many tall players. the only players that are tall enough to be in the ruck are cain ackland and kosi.
 
Powerstufff said:
Brogan - Premiership winning ruckman
Lade - Premiership winning ruckman
Primus - At the tail end of his career and captaincy. But prior to injury and rule changes he dominated the competition as an inspirational captain and a multiple All-Australian ruckman.

Ackland has a long way to go to emulate let alone beat any of these guys. In doing so has to remember he could have been a cemented-in AFL player at Port 4 years ago.
Maybe it will happen that his career eclipses theirs. But I suggest hold the hyperbole and see if he is more than a one year story.
Click to expand...

dont compare players to premierships....ben marsh won a premiership, that mean he is as good as lade??? or is josh mahoney a better player than luke ball or dal santo cos he has won a premiership???? ackland has been a revelation this year and has performed better than lade, primus and brogan.
 
Flying Joey said:
dont compare players to premierships....ben marsh won a premiership, that mean he is as good as lade??? or is josh mahoney a better player than luke ball or dal santo cos he has won a premiership???? ackland has been a revelation this year and has performed better than lade, primus and brogan.
Click to expand...
I hear what you say. But this is the first year of good service Ackland has given in the AFL. It's no secret that he'd have been a regular top level player for Port years ago if not for attitude problems.
So my reply (seen in the context of it being a reply to 'panther') is about there being more required to be judged a valuable player than giving 17/22 of an H&A season.
 

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