Calling all experts...

[blue gunslinger]

I would like our resident expert DBLUES opinion on our list.

The unfortunate thing is we are going to get it

 

[Sin City]

I was looking at my team picture from 1995 the other day and it reminded of when people talk about depth. In my best team moving forward I don't have the likes of Stevens, Houlihan, Scotland, Hadley, Fisher, Russell, Cloke, Wiggins, O'hAilpin or Bannister. But I do respect them, some for being great players in the past, others for doing the job they have been called on very well.

Here are a few guys that missed out in 1995; Ben Harrison, Ron De Iulio, Luke O'Sullivan, Adrian Gleeson, Troy Bond, Simon Beaumont, Aaron Hamill, Tony Lynn, Rohan Welsh, Adam White, Matty Allan, Barry Mitchell, James Cook and Brent Heaver.

If we are to be a serious contender we can't just delist every player thats not in out best 22, we need a variety of experience, talent and players that can perform roles when called on. I wouldn't delist any of the guys I've mentioned, never know when we might need them or when they might prove me wrong and show they deserve a spot.

 

[Mister Carlton]

Bentick did alright on the weekend. 3 goal haul and 20 possessions.
Maybe we got him wrong...

 

[PeeKay]

Re: Calling all experts...Trim the Carlton Squad List.

Ok I am bored, but I have been reading so many threads on here by the experts. Here is the Carlton team list, now what I want to know is who should be kept and who should go. We obviously have passengers, soft, unaccountable leaders and generally players who are just dead wood. If you were the one trying to shape our future with the list we have at this point in time, who would you keep and who would you send packing?

I think this year we will take 4 players in the National Draft, 2 in the Rookie Draft and 1 from Ireland.
That means we need to delist 7 players.
If that is the case, then I think 6 of them will be:
Wiggins (will go the Bullants as Captain)
Cloke
Bentick
Ellard (so about that)
Bannister (too many like him)
Pheiffer
I don't know who will be the 7th. It won't be Fisher, Johnson, Edwards, Hartlett etc so there will be somone else.

 

[blues4flag]

Rookie listed players are independent of senior listed players. I doubt we'll select more than 4 in the ND given the supposed lack of depth in this draft. Assuming we don't trade for picks, our fourth will be about 60.

We'll also need to free up a senior spot for Joseph and possibly Jacobs. Any Irish rookie will be signed on as an international rookie so he won't take up a place on the senior list. We'll delist all the rookies we don't see a future in and give other guys a go.

All up, I'm guessing we'll have to delist 5 or 6 senior listed players.
Edwards - done nothing.
Hartlett - done nothing even now that he's injury free.
Bentick - was a good servant during our darker years but is too limited to have a future at the level
Wiggins - same as Bentick
Bannister - not hopeless but like the above two, not good enough

Those would be my first 5 delisted. If we're to delist 6, I think it'll come from Cloke (has 5 games to show his worth), Fisher (contracted) or Hadley.

 

[The Cranium]

Maybe Greg Miller can come in and sort out our list...

 

[barnesy_78]

Re: Calling all experts...Trim the Carlton Squad List.

Ok I am bored, but I have been reading so many threads on here by the experts. Here is the Carlton team list, now what I want to know is who should be kept and who should go. We obviously have passengers, soft, unaccountable leaders and generally players who are just dead wood. If you were the one trying to shape our future with the list we have at this point in time, who would you keep and who would you send packing?

1 Andrew Walker
2 Jordan Russell - Much maligned, has he improved? Skills aren't up to it.
3 Marc Murphy
4 Bryce Gibbs
5 Chris Judd
6 Kade Simpson
7 Adam Bentick - Afraid for him, injuries have really held him back.
8 Matthew Kreuzer
10 Richard Hadley - What's going on here?
11 Robert Warnock
12 Mitch Robinson
13 Chris Yarran
14 Brad Fisher - Can't kick 40 meters, not sure if he will be with us.
15 Steven Browne
16 Shaun Grigg
17 Setanta O'hAilpin
18 Paul Bower
19 Eddie Betts
20 Rhys O'Keeffe
21 Mark Austin
22 Shaun Hampson
23 Adam Hartlett - Unfortunately I think this is goodbye.
24 Nick Stevens - I would try for a trade, if not it's goodbye.
25 Brendan Fevola
26 Joe Anderson
27 Dennis Armfield
28 Cameron Cloke - Does he have a future with us?
29 Heath Scotland - Very worried with Heath, up & down 09
30 Jarrad Waite
31 Jordan Bannister
32 Bret Thornton
33 Ryan Houlihan - Lots of question, is he a passenger?
34 Simon Wiggins
35 Caleb Tiller
37 Jake Edwards - Hasn't had many chances, won't be on our list.
40 Michael Jamison
44 Andrew Carrazzo - Trade bait? No takers? Disposal skills.
45 Aaron Joseph
46 David Ellard
Chris Johnson - Picked up for his kicking skills, but has be impressed??
Darren Pfeiffer
Greg Bentley - Elevated, but question marks on him?
Jeff Gartlett
Lachie Hill
Luke Stanton
Sam Jacobs - Elevated in 09, lots of potential.

So take the time, and consider how you could shape this list.

33 Ryan Houlihan - Lots of question, is he a passenger? - DOES A BEAR SH*T IN THE WOODS???

 

[thylacine60]

"Not always, champ".

 

[Alpha1]

We have to make hard decision, we need to try and get some trades. We have players on our list who have been at Carlton long enough, just dead wood floating around.

 

[The Cranium]

We have to make hard decision, we need to try and get some trades. We have players on our list who have been at Carlton long enough, just dead wood floating around.

The trouble is, you'll get sweet FA for them...

 

[kreuze_missile]

Delist: Hartlett, Bentick, Pfeiffer, O'hAilpin, Bannister, Edwards
Tradebait: Fevola, Gibbs, Fisher, Cloke, Hadley, Hampson, Scotland, Stevens

 

[Alpha1]

Delist: Hartlett, Bentick, Pfeiffer, O'hAilpin, Bannister, Edwards
Tradebait: Fevola, Gibbs, Fisher, Cloke, Hadley, Hampson, Scotland, Stevens

You want to trade Gibbs? And what/who would you ask for him? I agree with the rest, but I don't get we would get much for them.

 

[Bluebear]

Yet to sign, who to delist.....2009

There are many threads on this board dedicated to this topic.

 

[mac25]

Delist: Hartlett, Bentick, Pfeiffer, O'hAilpin, Bannister, Edwards
Tradebait: Fevola, Gibbs, Fisher, Cloke, Hadley, Hampson, Scotland, Stevens

Fevola is currently our only forward of real quality, who do you propose would play full forward, quite a riduclous suggestion.
Gibbs also not quite sure were some fans are coming from with these type of suggestions, the objective should be to improve our list and you are suggesting two players that would be ranked in our top 6.

Also on what basis would you delist O'hAilpin when right now with our current list he is our best option at CHF.

 

[kreuze_missile]

You want to trade Gibbs? And what/who would you ask for him? I agree with the rest, but I don't get we would get much for them.

Top 3 pick, 1st+2nd round pick or a pick+player deal (McKinnley). I want to trade him and Fevola for currency so that we can go out and shop for a more functional forward line to replace Fevola.

 

[Alpha1]

Top 3 pick, 1st+2nd round pick or a pick+player deal (McKinnley). I want to trade him and Fevola for currency so that we can go out and shop for a more functional forward line to replace Fevola.

Ok as mac25 asked, who is going to kick our goals if Fev is traded? I agree with you slightly in regards to Fev, I Doggies, Swans etc would be willing to consider him. But that leaves us with the problem of who is going to kick the goals. Kruz I think is going to be a great CHF, but how about FF?

 

[mac25]

Top 3 pick, 1st+2nd round pick or a pick+player deal (McKinnley). I want to trade him and Fevola for currency so that we can go out and shop for a more functional forward line to replace Fevola.

Surely a more logical way of gaining a more functional forward line would be to surround Fevola with some better players around him so that other teams will actually have to be more mindful of these players, as other teams play little respect to many of the our players in our attack and purely focus on Fev.

At the moment we have four ruckman all capable of playing that role, surely the more intelligent thing to do would be to try ascertain a young forward by trading one of these, either in this draft or possibly to the GC the following year for a top 6 draft pick.
l agree we should look at Mckinley but no need to get rid of Fev to achieve this.

 

[Alpha1]

I think we could trade one of Hammo or Jacobs, not sure what the GC would offer for any one of them though. But don't we have some young rookies who could play in the forward line with Fev? I am not talking about Garlett or Yarran, I am talking about taller marking players.

 

[Mister Carlton]

I think we could trade one of Hammo or Jacobs, not sure what the GC would offer for any one of them though. But don't we have some young rookies who could play in the forward line with Fev? I am not talking about Garlett or Yarran, I am talking about taller marking players.

Hampson has more value than Jacobs to the GC. I think we need 2 more KPP, so we are looking to rookie/select a tall forward and a tall backman.

 

[kreuze_missile]

Also on what basis would you delist O'hAilpin when right now with our current list he is our best option at CHF.

He wouldnt get a game anywhere else, if we are serious about winning our next flag we need to start cutting the deadwood.

Fevola is currently our only forward of real quality, who do you propose would play full forward, quite a riduclous suggestion.
Gibbs also not quite sure were some fans are coming from with these type of suggestions, the objective should be to improve our list and you are suggesting two players that would be ranked in our top 6.

As long as Fevola is our Full Forward I do not believe we can win a premiership. He is playing his best football right now, and will be on the decline (possibly even retired) in 3 years when our list will start to peak. Also, while he has been durable and reistant to injury so far in his career its unlikely this will continue as his body starts to age. Even at his age, I think a 80+ goal a year forward like Fevola is worth a 1st round pick + player.

The Gibbs suggestion is based on the fact that we will need ALOT of currency in order to trade for a potent forward. While Gibbs is a great player I think an outside midfielder like him is something that we could afford to lose. I also think that Gibbs market value is probably higher than his worth to our football club right now. I think Gibbs would be worth a 1st round + 2nd round pick, a 1st round pick + player or and elite forward.

As forwards usually attract a premium I'd also be happy to use what we have in Waite as our permanent CHF and look to just fill the FF position with someone a bit younger. Im comfortable with taking a CHB/FB that is a bit older because I think that they will come a bit cheaper and a big-bodied senior player will really help lock down our backing and help out our youger guys.

Here's some possible scenarios:

Fevola for Geelong's 1st round pick + Mackie
Fevola + 3rd round pick for Bulldogs 1st round pick + Lake
Fevola for Sydney's 1st round pick + 2nd round pick

Gibbs for Adeliade's 1st + 2nd round picks
Gibbs for Adelaide's 1st round pick + Bock
Gibbs for Tippett

Carlton 1st round + 2nd round pick for Roughhead
Carlton's 2nd round pick for McKinnley

Im sure there are MANY more possible scenarios but essentially I would like to end up with the following while still retaining 3 picks in the draft, including one 1st round selection:

Lose - Fevola, Gibbs, (possibly) 3rd/4th round picks
Gain - Geniune FB/CHB, A grade forward (under 25), Geuine 3rd tall option, ability to play Waite as a permanent CHF

HF: Walker, Waite, Yarran
F: Betts, Tippett/Roughead, McKinnley

*drools*

 

[Alpha1]

What would we get for Hammo then? Since the GC have basically been handed the best kids in the land.

 

[kreuze_missile]

What would we get for Hammo then? Since the GC have basically been handed the best kids in the land.

Top 3 pick.

 

[Kooley]

Top 3 pick.

funniest thing I have read all year!!!

 

[Weiterbot23]

I don't think a top 5 from the GC is totally out of the question for hamma.

He will be the perfect age, will have had 4 years of development and is probably the most athletic ruck in the comp. Plus is he a local!!

The GC can't aford to just take 38 18 year olds.

Keeping in mind hamma was pick 17.

We should only make that trade if we think there will be a better forward than Kreuzer in the draft around that pick. Otherwise we may aswell keep hamma and push Kreuzer forward.


Regarding the op, I agree we had about 8 players out there that won't cut it in a premiership side (a few would be handy for depth)

We have Waite, Walker, Warnock and Stevens (if he feels like it) to come in and add quailty...but where are the other 4 or so going to come from??

Hopefully Robbo will be playing consistant footy soon and I also think Browne and Army will make it as good senior football players. However, it certainly appears that we will have to continue to improve our list......without number 1 picks!!

 

[kreuze_missile]

Regarding the op, I agree we had about 8 players out there that won't cut it in a premiership side (a few would be handy for depth)

We have Waite, Walker, Warnock and Stevens (if he feels like it) to come in and add quailty...but where are the other 4 or so going to come from??

Hopefully Robbo will be playing consistant footy soon and I also think Browne and Army will make it as good senior football players. However, it certainly appears that we will have to continue to improve our list......without number 1 picks!!

I'd say its more like a bottom 10 than a bottom 4 right now, with the following spots still very much up for grabs. Here's our list where I see it right now, i've put question marks in the spots which I still think are still very much up for grabs.

B: ???, Jamison, Thornton
HB: ???, Bower, ???
C: ??? Gibbs, ???
HF: ???, Waite, ???
F: ???, Fevola, Betts
R: Kreuzer Judd, Murphy

INT: ???, ???, ???, ???

Here's our remaining players listed next to the postion they usually fill.

Bold indicates I think they will fill this role going forward
Italics indicate that this player could fill this position with a big pre-season
Red indicates that the player is too old or simply not up to and will not be a part of our plans beyond 2010.

BP: Johnson, Anderson
HBF: Russell, Scotland, Armfield
WING: Grigg, Simpson, Carrazzo, Stevens
HFF: Yarran, Russell, Wiggins, Robinson, Walker, Houlihan, Fisher, O'hAilpin
FP: Gartlett

Extras: Hampson, Jacobs, Warnock