Cam Bruce

[MelbourneFC_32]

Its a joke you're even comparing him to the likes of K.Cornes, Bartel, Hayes and Mitchell. Bruce isn't even a shadow of those players. That is 'exactly' why your statistical observation is useless...

If you're happy looking through rose-tinted glasses then that's your business. But a lot of Melbourne supporters are tired of watching his half hearted efforts go unpunished. So there ya go...

No unfortunately you have misinterperated what I said and what the stats were used for. I didn't say he was better than any of those players. I said he WINS THE BALL as much as, if not more than, them. What he does with it is a different story. This is an attempt to hopefully open up the eyes of dismissive people who think he is soft and an 'outside' player.

There are no rose-tinted glasses here, I just don't fall for the rubbish that other supporters fall for because we are struggling.

 

[Demon 86]

It is so disappointing that Bruce cops so much and even worse that is from his own supporters. Unfortunately some people don't understand the game and just fall for perception, and then these people tell their rubbish to other people who don't understand the game and that's how players can get a bad reputation.

Cameron Bruce is not soft. Is he Jonathon Brown or Joel Selwood? No, but not many players are. Not every single player in the competition is a pack busting machine.

30% of Bruce's possessions are contested. Just FYI that is higher than Scott Thompson, Lenny Hayes, Kane Cornes, Jimmy Bartel and Sam Mitchell. He also has more one percenters that all those players besides Bartel. His tackles are down this year, but he has been a one of the leaders of this in the past.

Now the negative Nancy's will say that you can use stats to prove anything. But that is a cop out. Contested posessions are when you WIN the ball. That is the ball is there to be won, someone else tried to win it, and you beat them.

All your doing by saying Bruce is soft, and an outsider who doesn't do the hard things is saying 'I don't understand football' and you are embarrassing yourselves.

He is not as good as he was, his kicking is has gone downhill and he has lost some of his confident flair. But please stop with the outsider, soft crap because it is nothing short of absolute tripe.

whoa there son! thats a hell of a lot of angst there...

So anyone who thinks Bruce is soft 'doesnt understand football', speaks 'tripe' and are 'embarrassing themselves'?

Big claims there! Thanks though next time I form an opinion ill be sure to check with u first

 

[Colin Grigson]

No unfortunately you have misinterperated what I said and what the stats were used for. I didn't say he was better than any of those players. I said he WINS THE BALL as much as, if not more than, them. What he does with it is a different story. This is an attempt to hopefully open up the eyes of dismissive people who think he is soft and an 'outside' player.

There are no rose-tinted glasses here, I just don't fall for the rubbish that other supporters fall for because we are struggling.

Firstly, I don't even know if that stat. is accurate. Secondly, those guys: Mitchell, Hayes, Bartel, Thompson, K. Cornes are generally winning their contested ball amongst 6 or 7 other players because they are usually 'in' and 'under' and winning them at stoppages.

Bruce might be winning contested ball, but its probably against some skinny 19 year old kid isolated one-on-one on a wing...

Still proves nothing. If you put Bruce up against any of those blokes in a contested situation he'd lose on most occasions...

 

[MelbourneFC_32]

Firstly, I don't even know if that stat. is accurate. Secondly, those guys: Mitchell, Hayes, Bartel, Thompson, K. Cornes are generally winning their contested ball amongst 6 or 7 other players because they are usually 'in' and 'under' and winning them at stoppages.

Bruce might be winning contested ball, but its probably against some skinny 19 year old kid isolated one-on-one on a wing...

Still proves nothing. If you put Bruce up against any of those blokes in a contested situation he'd lose on most occasions...

I can assure that the stat is accurate. And you can't actually be serious with your rebuttal. Now you are shooting me down because he only wins the ball against young and skinny players? Cmon, let's get serious here.

Look mate I'm not here to get in a fight with you or have a go at you or anything. We are down the bottom and we should be all sticking together becuse that is what makes it all that much sweeter when we reach the top. I just get frustrated by people who pot our players and question their heart and passion when they are absolutely 100% wrong.

 

[MelbourneFC_32]

whoa there son! thats a hell of a lot of angst there...

So anyone who thinks Bruce is soft 'doesnt understand football', speaks 'tripe' and are 'embarrassing themselves'?

Big claims there! Thanks though next time I form an opinion ill be sure to check with u first

Honestly? Yes. It doesn't mean that you completely don't understand it, but I think that if you think he is soft then you don't understand it enough to comment on, and question, players integrity and how they play the game.

 

[Demon 86]

Honestly? Yes. It doesn't mean that you completely don't understand it, but I think that if you think he is soft then you don't understand it enough to comment on, and question, players integrity and how they play the game.

righteo

Its ur opinion- no doubt shared by others, but certainly not by everyone. Judging a players performance and 'player integrity' is very subjective and there is no one answer thats correct!

oh and i can guarentee u i understand the game very well mate.

 

[Colin Grigson]

I can assure that the stat is accurate. And you can't actually be serious with your rebuttal. Now you are shooting me down because he only wins the ball against young and skinny players? Cmon, let's get serious here.

Look mate I'm not here to get in a fight with you or have a go at you or anything. We are down the bottom and we should be all sticking together becuse that is what makes it all that much sweeter when we reach the top. I just get frustrated by people who pot our players and question their heart and passion when they are absolutely 100% wrong.

Well you were the one who said people criticising Bruce didn't understand the game blah blah blah... And that little bit at the end, "...people who pot our players and question their heart and passion when they are absolutely 100% wrong"

How do you honestly expect me to respond to that??

My point in the last post was that the 'contested possession' count doesn't mean an awful lot because it doesn't tell you anything about the circumstances where & how the player won the ball.

It doesn't say whether he had to beat some 17 year old kid one-on-one whose shoe laces were untied, or whether he won it in driving rain amongst 7 or 8 players.

The contested possessions those players you mentioned: Cornes, Bartel, Mitchell, Hayes and Thompson are 'qualitatively' different from the ones Bruce wins, because they win them under a hell of a lot more pressure. That is why that statistic is useless..

 

[MelbourneFC_32]

Well you were the one who said people criticising Bruce didn't understand the game blah blah blah... And that little bit at the end, "...people who pot our players and question their heart and passion when they are absolutely 100% wrong"

How do you honestly expect me to respond to that??

My point in the last post was that the 'contested possession' count doesn't mean an awful lot because it doesn't tell you anything about the circumstances where & how the player won the ball.

It doesn't say whether he had to beat some 17 year old kid one-on-one whose shoe laces were untied, or whether he won it in driving rain amongst 7 or 8 players.

The contested possessions those players you mentioned: Cornes, Bartel, Mitchell, Hayes and Thompson are 'qualitatively' different from the ones Bruce wins, because they win them under a hell of a lot more pressure. That is why that statistic is useless..

Well each year he has always been one of our highest contested posession winners, so I just think its a bit far fetched to be claiming he wins them in different ways. But we are going around in circles on that so we will have to agree to disagree.

Surely it can count out the 'outside player' comments though. Outside players get a lot of uncontested ball, hence the reason they are referred to as outside players.

I am not saying that he is perfect. I have a few critisisms of him myself in his kicking, hospital handballs, and unwillingess to take the game on, but I just don't like the soft calls.

 

[Colin Grigson]

Well each year he has always been one of our highest contested posession winners, so I just think its a bit far fetched to be claiming he wins them in different ways. But we are going around in circles on that so we will have to agree to disagree.

Surely it can count out the 'outside player' comments though. Outside players get a lot of uncontested ball, hence the reason they are referred to as outside players.

I am not saying that he is perfect. I have a few critisisms of him myself in his kicking, hospital handballs, and unwillingess to take the game on, but I just don't like the soft calls.

OK. Fair enough, you win...

 

[The Dr]

Been a good player for us, but more than happy to see him go at the end of the season.

 

[richskee]

Been a good player for us, but more than happy to see him go at the end of the season.

hmmm I'm mixed on this.

He was once a gun and a class act, now he's going on 28yo. Maybe a late 2nd rounder. Not sure if it's worth it tbh.

 

[Dez!]

hmmm I'm mixed on this.

He was once a gun and a class act, now he's going on 28yo. Maybe a late 2nd rounder. Not sure if it's worth it tbh.

He's 29 going on 30 in September.

Still good for another 2 years at least in my opinion.

 

[Den11]

I have been in this argument before. I think he is a class player that we need but does not lead by example in doing the tough things.

I think we have to be carefull about what stats we start flashing around in here. Travis Johnston who was thw worst offender and has been dropped for his lack of effort this season aves 6.9 Contested Possessions a game this season while Bruce is less then one per game in front at 7.8

The stats here a irrelevant, I am torn as love some of the things he does yet loath when skirts packs and doesn't lay body on line when needed.

 

[cannons]

hmmm I'm mixed on this.

He was once a gun and a class act, now he's going on 28yo. Maybe a late 2nd rounder. Not sure if it's worth it tbh.

I don't think we would get anything worthwhile for him. A 2nd rounder in this draft, which lacks depth according to a number of reports, may not be of too much benefit in comparison to what we would lose.

I think Bruce is a reasonably important player, perhaps not as influential as he should be, but certainly useful. Keeping him, and his presence and knowledge around the club, is probably going to be better than getting a decent pick in the draft.

 

[Den11]

Would we look at putting up Bruce and our pick 20 for a ready made KPF? Allowing us to use top two picks on mids?

Would need to be 26 or younger to make it worthwhile. Anybody older would be pointless. Though no one comes to mind who would be available.

 

[Dez!]

Would we look at putting up Bruce and our pick 20 for a ready made KPF? Allowing us to use top two picks on mids?

Would need to be 26 or younger to make it worthwhile. Anybody older would be pointless. Though no one comes to mind who would be available.

Nobody would do that, not even Freo.

 

[Den11]

Have been reading across many threads about people discussing this poor bloke, and instead of answering it back i thought this post belonged in here, that and i am not permitted to post a new thread as yet as just a rookie.

People are arguing about Cam Bruce being a good strong player due to him leading the Contested Possession count. This proves nothing, and this story last year with Choco Williams highlights this beautifully,

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/66844/default.aspx

Basically this talks about the contested possession meaning nothing towards how tough a player is. For example if a player gets a loose ball through traffic this is a contested possession, if a player is 1m away when you get the ball this is a Contested possession.

A Free kick for is a contested possesion. If you take the free kicks out of it Moloney has won the most contested possessions for our club.

I don't doubt that he does these things, I do doubt that he lacks the fortitude to stand up and show the way for our boys. He has to many weak efforts and weak attacks on the ball. This doesn't show the acts like Jones using his body to take a player out of the play or Cale Morton backing back into play.

We can not stand around using the stats to argue these points. One of the main reasons people are saying to keep him is as a leader. How can a leader be weak in the contest and and allow players to barge straight through.

Sorry I do love this bloke, and think he would be very good in a good team though at 30(Sept) i do not see him as part of our rebuild. We all talk about the need for the club to make the tough decisions, and i believe this is one we need to make.

Bruce does lead the way with 281 possessions at 79% Eff, 86CP

Moloney 273 78% 83CP (Going by stats highly underated)
Morton 273 76% 48CP (Awesome stats for 19yr old)
McLean 258 72% 77CP
Davey 259 81% 52 CP (Is impressive considering his kick ratio)
Jones 259 71% 67CP
Sylvia 214 76% 64CP

and had to add
GRIMES 101 86% 31CP (On track to beat them all)

So for the long winded rant, but wanted to get it all out

 

[Pipefitter]

With Jones and McDonald out tonight im looking forward to Bruce having a good impact through the middle. I hope anyways. He seems to play his best footy in the middle.

 

[dizwah]

I would love to know the average age of the people posting on here, I think people have a very short memory. Bruce has been a fantastic player for the melbourne fc over a very long period of time. He also won the B&F last year. There is no way melbourne would consider trading him. I think people are also underestimating his leadership off the ground.

 

[saj_21]

Not sure why there is so much hate towards cam bruce, he has tried his guts out this year. ok he is not the most physical player going round but a lot of people carry on about how many inside mid fielders we have but bag bruce for not going in hard enough.

Avg just under 26 touches at 80% efficiency a game and is a real steady head in the backline. getting a lot of un warranted criticsm and for mine would like to see him go on for 2 more years.

 

[Natanui]

Took that off the main board and that tells us that he's our most damaging midfielder, criticize him for yesterday that's fine but overall he cops far too much unwarranted crap on here.

*Also good too see Morton on the list as well, his tackle count will pick up once he develops anything that remotely resembles a muscle on his frame.

Look at both their tackle count tho pathetic (altho morton is young) skillful player that just doesnt go in hard enough

 

[Den11]

saj i don't think it is a hate of Cam Bruce, i think most people on here discussing it are fans but in the position we're in and rebuilding as we are any player who is 30+ has to be questioned and debated. He has been great for our club and I would love to know the heights he could of reached if he wasn't injured at the peak of his powers.

What we are saying is can we cover him with younger players, is his efforts off the ball up to standard and is he a good enough leader on and off the field to take the club forward.

I don't argue what he does 80% time when with the ball though it is what he does without the ball. Does he lead on field, not that i have seen, looks frustrated with others a lot, which is very understandable the way we are playing.

I question the actual leadership quality's of the next tier of players at Melbourne. If Bruce or Green where anywere near being captain material do you think the club would have given it to a 32yr old for possibly one year. I don't know why and haven't heard anything about this issue but i would imagine if they were ready to go they would have it over a 1 yr capt.

I have changed on this a bit, i think we have room for him next year after doing the list assesment on the other thread, but i would like him to step up. Be a leader off of the ball and show our young players the way forward. In his defence i also think he is a much better mid then bank flanker.

Dizwah i am 31 so have seen his whole career!

 

[deeman12]

I would love to know the average age of the people posting on here, I think people have a very short memory. Bruce has been a fantastic player for the melbourne fc over a very long period of time. He also won the B&F last year. There is no way melbourne would consider trading him. I think people are also underestimating his leadership off the ground.

This post is spot on. He's been a great servant to the club and one of our best contributers over a long period of time. Why is Bruce being made the scapegoat for our shit performances? He runs his guts out week in week out, something which can't be said for a lot of the players on the list.