Capitalist Corruption

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CM86

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Just watching a vid on the issues of Roblox:



Quinns took months to work out how Roblox works, how it makes money from an unregulated stock market of kids buying and selling virtual trinkets...

Roblox played all sorts of corporate-speak tricks, veiled threats etc:




But their share price is up 40%, so IT'S ALL GOOD!

Finally got around to watching the second video.

I'm embarrassed that I had no idea about it all.
I knew Roblox existed, but would not have believed someone if they'd told me Roblox was bigger than Nintendo...


Also, thanks for including a quick description alongside your links.
 

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TheBrownDog
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"Hand over their kids to Maccas". That's a bit hyperbolic. I've got no issue with my kids eating Maccas a few times a month. I still own them.


If you are poor and/or uneducated you are likely stressed day to day. This puts you in a situation where you don't have the mental resources to make good decisions in the face of well tuned marketing. It's not a character weakness to be exploited at a vulnerable time in your life.

being a parent is a responsibility that requires being responsible and not exposing them to lots of things. Their world should be small with very little screen time (preferably none for years), not getting them addicted to sugar and salt.

It also requires leadership to show them and encourage them to make good decisions. Being poor is not something that can be avoided easily if that's what life deals you (and nothing to be ashamed of) but one must strive to avoid a peasant mindset.......especially if you have kids.
 

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Carringbush2010

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This is, as per uge, about the apples, never the barrel.

Things get easier with Carringbush2010 when you realise he's internalized Thatcher's "There is no society" mantra. Systems don't matter, only individuals.

Yeah I've never stated that, systems do matter, but more importantly it's how those systems are used or misused - the system won't do anything until it used or misused.

Debate that if you will, but you'd probably be talking to yourself.

Never have I mentioned or even alluded to a 'no society Thatcher mantra' yet here you are claiming this is my position. Insert eye roll here.

Some on here can't seem to get their head around that, thus 'capitalism evil', that's a very simplistic view. Capitalism by it's intended design is all about free market and competition - sure in reality it's far from that but I'm not arguing that.

Yet the crayon eaters on here (they know who they are) are quick to jump on my posts, incorrectly thinking they can read my evil capitalist mind and go into auto stupid mode.

Same can be said for socialism / communism. Doesn't do jack sh*t until it is used or misused. But yeah it's intended design is great if one is ok with set market and no competition (equal outcome for all). Again, sure, that's not the reality - again I'm not arguing that either.
 

sdfc

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being a parent is a responsibility that requires being responsible and not exposing them to lots of things. Their world should be small with very little screen time (preferably none for years), not getting them addicted to sugar and salt.

It also requires leadership to show them and encourage them to make good decisions. Being poor is not something that can be avoided easily if that's what life deals you (and nothing to be ashamed of) but one must strive to avoid a peasant mindset.......especially if you have kids.
Having sh*t parents is a bigger barrier to success than being poor, although often the two go hand in hand.
 

Gethelred

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Yeah I've never stated that, systems do matter, but more importantly it's how those systems are used or misused - the system won't do anything until it used or misused.

Debate that if you will, but you'd probably be talking to yourself.

Never have I mentioned or even alluded to a 'no society Thatcher mantra' yet here you are claiming this is my position. Insert eye roll here.

Some on here can't seem to get their head around that, thus 'capitalism evil', that's a very simplistic view. Capitalism by it's intended design is all about free market and competition - sure in reality it's far from that but I'm not arguing that.

Yet the crayon eaters on here (they know who they are) are quick to jump on my posts, incorrectly thinking they can read my evil capitalist mind and go into auto stupid mode.

Same can be said for socialism / communism. Doesn't do jack sh*t until it is used or misused. But yeah it's intended design is great if one is ok with set market and no competition (equal outcome for all). Again, sure, that's not the reality - again I'm not arguing that either.
Outside of lampshade hanging of the kind you do in this post, you can pretty much predict which side you'll fall on the system/individual spectrum when referring to bad behaviour. Whether you can see the ideological lineage from Thatcher to yourself is not really my problem; if you don't like it or object to it, that certainly suggests it's one of yours.

Your posting outlines that you view it as a problem not with capitalism but humanity, that humans are selfish and are going to behave selfishly by breaking the rules, despite the fact that capitalism incentivises said rule breaking. Then, when someone points out that you always do this, you proclaim to all and sundry 'Me? No, not at all, I am most affronted, you have WRONGED me sir!', despite having made this particular observation about any number of systems in any number of different threads.

It's always the apples, never the barrel with you; never the system, always the individuals.
 
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Carringbush2010

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capitalism incentivises said rule breaking

Don't disagree, so herein you will find your answer.

Where does capitalism come from? Who invented it?

Glad you agree with me.

Now whether or not you're going to assume what my mind is thinking / a Thatcher fanboi or any other bullsh*t you can come up with. Knock yourself out you'll still be wrong.

Can we all agree that capitalism did not invent itself (or any other societal model / concept / whatever)?

If you want to oppose the obvious, go ahead I couldn't give a flying, I'll just laugh at you.
 

Gethelred

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Don't disagree, so herein you will find your answer.

Where does capitalism come from? Who invented it?

Glad you agree with me.
It's like you just learnt maths, and discovered 1+1=2, and are refusing to acknowledge that other methods of reasoning are available. Nor is the point you think you're making really a worthwhile addition. But anyway...
Now whether or not you're going to assume what my mind is thinking / a Thatcher fanboi or any other bullsh*t you can come up with. Knock yourself out you'll still be wrong.
Have a good look at the posts you're quoting, then what you're complaining about.

I've not called you a fanboi at any point; all I've said is that your thoughts have their origins in hers. If you don't like that being pointed out, perhaps don't have those thoughts?

Can we all agree that capitalism did not invent itself (or any other societal model / concept / whatever)?
...

This is dopey sh*t, CB.
 

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TheBrownDog
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Having sh*t parents is a bigger barrier to success than being poor, although often the two go hand in hand.

we all know kids grow up to be their own people and can choose to be successful or failures regardless of how they were raised. but statistically you'd suggest parents who teach their kids, provide them with the right skill sets and install good values will have a better chance in life.

Imagine loading your kid up with sugar with cereal in the morning, then sending them to school and wondering why they can't concentrate during the sugar high and sugar low?

Imagine not putting your kid to get 12 hours sleep despite recommendation at certain ages, by medical professions.

Imagine not reading to your kid every day, giving them healthy food and eating healthy food with them.

Sure everyone, especially parents, get tired and frustrated with the choirs and routine but one must remember the choices they made and the responsibilities that come with that. If one can't do it themselves, get help. Get grandma, hire someone........find a solution rather than coming up with excuses that giving kids maccas and coke is OK.
 

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TheBrownDog
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Yeah... OK.

Give us a yell next time you're in an inter generational poverty cycle.

I don't know the pay rates for my great grand parents and beyond, who were potato farmers in the Austro Hungarian empire but I dare say the Turkish and Mongol invaders made life colouful.

my grand parents arrived in Oz by boat, after serving in concentration camps after the war for "re education" and one with no shirt on his back. only to serve in camps in Oz until their english, trade and disease free status was approved.

my father had a heart operation to replace his heart valve putting him out of work for almost a year, as a ~20yo, with two kids. Mum would take us from family member to family member in a huge family, each night as there was not enough money for food.

despite coming from generations of poverty, what my family taught me was to change my situation (leave the soviet block/ leave adelaide) if the opportunities aren't plentiful, look for opportunities rather than just seeing problems and remain positive.



Intergenerational poverty is a huge problem and actually highlights my point. If you have parents that don't or can't provide leadership and guidance for a variety of reasons, the kids are on the back foot. Food is the most basic starting point of leadership, education and guidance that we can all do in Australia.

One division that separates the rich and poor is contacts. If a kid wants to be an accountant, a poor family might not be able to explain what an accountant does, the different types, the opportunities that come with the career and how to achieve it etc. Where a wealthier family may be able to introduce them to their accountant or even get them work experience at PWC or EY. This is an area that I think schools could have done much better (perhaps they are now).

Regardless of our situation it is important to appreciate the energy, security, love and leadership is important......even when one has nothing left to give in that moment.
 

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TheBrownDog
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Yeah... OK.

Give us a yell next time you're in an inter generational poverty cycle.

it is also important to also be consistent:

1) I'm anti big corporation - here eat this maccas burger
2) I'm anti class system - here I support low wages at maccas
3) I believe in education - here eat this sh*t so you have behavioural issues and can't concentrate in class
4) I believe in medicare - here eat this sh*t and make the most of medicare
5) I want to be the best parent I can be - here eat this sh*t as I don't have time to think about healthy choices
 

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bfff

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In poor countries "buying votes" is easy but in wealthier and educated nations, I dare say votes are "influenced" more by behaviour than $s. An example would be trying to ban cigarettes in the 1980s would be impossible but phasing in strategies to reduce the number of smokers over time worked.

We'd see the same thing with alcohol and fast today.
Which votes are you referring to? Electoral or legislative? How are they influenced by behaviour?

The tobacco lobby has been remarkably “successful” in keeping a product that literally kills people on the market. In the 80s you would remember they were still advertising at sports games. The harmful effects of tobacco were known at least by the 1960s.Their continued existence depends on them having the capital to influence politicians.

Here is a picture of The House magazine, a weekly publication sent to UK MPs, Peers and civil servants.

2F70118B-6C91-44EE-B0EC-9A154A489F1F.jpeg


This was published in 2012, plain packaging wasn’t introduced in the UK until 2016. Tobacco was known to be harmful from at least the 1960s. This is perversion of democracy, nothing influences more than money
 

CM86

Anindilyakwa
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Don't be. The second video uncovers the virtual item stock market which they are so ashamed of that it doesn't seem to have been promoted in their IPO.
I watched that one twice, (sped up the second time).
Just so much to unpack. Some of the stuff I didn't even know existed... and it's already being so dominantly abused.

But it's not being talked about anywhere else. Any news articles I find, seem to just be repeating Roblox talking points.
 

CM86

Anindilyakwa
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it is also important to also be consistent:

1) I'm anti big corporation - here eat this maccas burger
2) I'm anti class system - here I support low wages at maccas
3) I believe in education - here eat this sh*t so you have behavioural issues and can't concentrate in class
4) I believe in medicare - here eat this sh*t and make the most of medicare
5) I want to be the best parent I can be - here eat this sh*t as I don't have time to think about healthy choices
I feel like you have an irrational hate, for people that you almost never interact with.
 

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TheBrownDog
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Which votes are you referring to? Electoral or legislative? How are they influenced by behaviour?

The tobacco lobby has been remarkably “successful” in keeping a product that literally kills people on the market. In the 80s you would remember they were still advertising at sports games. The harmful effects of tobacco were known at least by the 1960s.Their continued existence depends on them having the capital to influence politicians.

Here is a picture of The House magazine, a weekly publication sent to UK MPs, Peers and civil servants.

View attachment 1299328

This was published in 2012, plain packaging wasn’t introduced in the UK until 2016. Tobacco was known to be harmful from at least the 1960s. This is perversion of democracy, nothing influences more than money

smokes, maccas, coke all share the same ingredients to undermine democracy

yes they are financially powerful but their real power is the addicted customer base who form a large % of the electorate. People want this crap and thus the government is powerless to tackle the health issues without backlash. Rather government as we saw with smokes, are limited to reform by "creep".
 

Carringbush2010

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It's like you just learnt maths, and discovered 1+1=2, and are refusing to acknowledge that other methods of reasoning are available. Nor is the point you think you're making really a worthwhile addition. But anyway...

Have a good look at the posts you're quoting, then what you're complaining about.

I've not called you a fanboi at any point; all I've said is that your thoughts have their origins in hers. If you don't like that being pointed out, perhaps don't have those thoughts?


...

This is dopey sh*t, CB.

So at the end of the day you and others have a bee in your bonnet about me pointing out the obvious.

You replied to me about my 'posting' remember, so it seems like it's you that has a dislike.

You enjoy that mate, carry on.
 

Gethelred

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So at the end of the day you and others have a bee in your bonnet about me pointing out the obvious.

You replied to me about my 'posting' remember, so it seems like it's you that has a dislike.

You enjoy that mate, carry on.
I replied to you telling you that you nigh continuously studiously assert that individuals should be blamed for their faults, never the system that enables them. I do not have an issue with this until it becomes rather clear that you're more than happy to ignore genuine systemic issues wherever they arise.

You still - just as clearly - do not like the implication that there's a pattern in your posting that, ideologically speaking, can be traced back to an idea of Thatcher's: that there is no such thing as society, that all there are is individuals. I get that you don't like the idea that you've ideological precedents, but you do and all of us do.

The point is, does something being a result of human nature mean that we should not try to change it, take it into account, avoid it? Why should, if capitalism has flaws which feed into human nature, we simply shrug and ignore the negative consequences of those flaws?

This is what I mean when I take issue with you pointing out the obvious: we're not arguing about whether the things we're talking about are human nature. That is a fact already in evidence. We're arguing that this is bad and should change or be changed or be accounted for.

Or are you going to sit there and tell me it cannot be changed? Because I have rather a lengthy list in another thread of things that were once unavoidable that rather weren't.
 

Jafa

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I don't mean to shoot you down in your blaze of glory but small businesses are set up owned by a trust with the entire family nominated as beneficiaries and distributed to those beneficiaries in the most tax effective manner. For example, if dad owned a business selling footballs and made $400,000 in the year but mum, brother and myself were unemployed, the trust would be used to turn that single person earning $400,000 (~$160,000 tax) a year to four people earning $100,000 (~$26,500 tax) = $54,000 tax saved right there.

Moving profits around the world before they are plonked on the spreadsheet for tax purposes costs this country far more than any small business, or even scores of small businesses.

There is not the motivation to fix that while those who stand to lose out, the corporations, are the same funding the election campaigns for, or in case of the mining tax - against.

Exactly how we run our business. We employ no one, pay ourselves dividends and get the grand kids in on the action.
 

Carringbush2010

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I replied to you telling you that you nigh continuously studiously assert that individuals should be blamed accountable for their faults, never the system that enables them.

Wrong! again! When did I say this?

I've repeatedly stated that the system is a product of human kind. Of course the system enables, again I've never argued that (as I've repeatedly stated!) and guess what? It's human kind that invented that system.

And what is the problem of individuals being responsible / accountable for their faults? How is that possibly wrong? It's not, that's not even up for debate

In fact the whole concept that societal / market models are somehow animate and have some evil intent is also ridiculous, and is also not up for debate.

Now if you want to continue >STILL!< assuming what my position is then go ahead, it'll just continue to prove you wrong - again!

My last reply to you about 'my posting', more than willing to discuss the thread subject.
 

CM86

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Wrong! again! When did I say this?

I've repeatedly stated that the system is a product of human kind. Of course the system enables, again I've never argued that (as I've repeatedly stated!) and guess what? It's human kind that invented that system.

And what is the problem of individuals being responsible / accountable for their faults? How is that possibly wrong? It's not, that's not even up for debate

In fact the whole concept that societal / market models are somehow animate and have some evil intent is also ridiculous, and is also not up for debate.

Now if you want to continue >STILL!< assuming what my position is then go ahead, it'll just continue to prove you wrong - again!

My last reply to you about 'my posting', more than willing to discuss the thread subject.
It's like you're just unable to get your head around the topics that you insist on posting about.

It's been explained to you so many times, and you just keep repeating it.

No one is saying that capitalism is an evil entity.
No one believes that if there was never any human life, that capitalism would still exist.

It's such a basic understanding, that it's just assumed and moved on from, so that actual discussions can take place.


You seem to think that you've stumbled onto some ground-breaking understanding of the world, and you don't want to move on from it, until you get a round of applause.


Just drop it and move on.
 

bfff

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smokes, maccas, coke all share the same ingredients to undermine democracy

yes they are financially powerful but their real power is the addicted customer base who form a large % of the electorate. People want this crap and thus the government is powerless to tackle the health issues without backlash. Rather government as we saw with smokes, are limited to reform by "creep".

You aren’t comparing apples to apples here. People get a chance to vote once every 3 years federally and in general have no other way to influence elected officials. This is not comparable to a corporation who can get access at the drop of a hat and conduct continuous campaigns to further their position. They can influence both sides of politics at any time.
 

Gethelred

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Wrong! again! When did I say this?

I've repeatedly stated that the system is a product of human kind. Of course the system enables, again I've never argued that (as I've repeatedly stated!) and guess what? It's human kind that invented that system.

And what is the problem of individuals being responsible / accountable for their faults? How is that possibly wrong? It's not, that's not even up for debate

In fact the whole concept that societal / market models are somehow animate and have some evil intent is also ridiculous, and is also not up for debate.

Now if you want to continue >STILL!< assuming what my position is then go ahead, it'll just continue to prove you wrong - again!

My last reply to you about 'my posting', more than willing to discuss the thread subject.
You not wanting to debate something does not mean it is not up for debate. You not being able to even intellectualise the concept that how you see the universe is incorrect is not my issue.

You keep saying that I'm not stating your position correctly, before restating what I'm saying your position is. The words you've substituted from my post don't change the meaning, they simply make you feel better about your position.

Blame being negative and focussed on the accuser; accountable being strong, and focussed on the accused.
 

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