The Law Cardinal Pell

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Power Raid said:
Turning a blind eye is gutless. It may have been common practice but I'm glad it is no longer.

Real men look after women, children and each other.

At least Pell has the balls and respect to return to face the music. That should be acknowledged by all.
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Not sure how accurate, but my take on Pope Francis 'allowing' Pell to take leave of his position in the Vatican to face the law in Australia was more of an exile.
 
Richard Pryor said:
Not sure how accurate, but my take on Pope Francis 'allowing' Pell to take leave of his position in the Vatican to face the law in Australia was more of an exile.
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I don't think that's the case. It shouldn't be underestimated the scale of corruption in the Vatican and the job Pell has done and is doing to root it out. It's about the only matter I think upon which the Pope and Pell agree.
 
Richard Pryor said:
Not sure how accurate, but my take on Pope Francis 'allowing' Pell to take leave of his position in the Vatican to face the law in Australia was more of an exile.
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francis and his fellows probably just didn't want to share their choir boys with Pell
 

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MrPortAdelaide said:
from the sources i have on Pell, (and they are pretty good scources from the day) is that Pell was one of the good ones in the Catholic clergy, it easy to throw stones but what i dont think people take into account is the taboo nature of pedo's back in those times, People say Pell knew of Pedo's and he may have, but turning a blind eye to these things wasnt only happening in the catholic church it was happening in every level of society from Churches, to governments, the public sector, schools and the family environment. The general rule for this scandilous behaviour back then was to deal with it in house.

If you think its any better today you are sadly mistaken, the only difference is that Pedo's are more cunning than what they were, many of them will now attach themselves to single mums in order to get at the kids and the internet just makes it all the more easier.
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Pretty much my mail too.

Went to boarding chool St Patricks Ballarat in the 80s. Kids knew who was dodgy and who was not. Pell was a big name Ballarat but his only flaw if you could call it that was that he was aloof and ambitious. Never heard anything about him being a fiddler.

Will be interesting to see how the case plays out. Id like to think the Victorian polices embarrassing and wrong submissions to the Royal Commission were more a case of ineptitude than a conspiracy but not entirely convinced of that.
 
MrPortAdelaide said:
from the sources i have on Pell, (and they are pretty good scources from the day) is that Pell was one of the good ones in the Catholic clergy, it easy to throw stones but what i dont think people take into account is the taboo nature of pedo's back in those times, People say Pell knew of Pedo's and he may have, but turning a blind eye to these things wasnt only happening in the catholic church it was happening in every level of society from Churches, to governments, the public sector, schools and the family environment. The general rule for this scandilous behaviour back then was to deal with it in house.

If you think its any better today you are sadly mistaken, the only difference is that Pedo's are more cunning than what they were, many of them will now attach themselves to single mums in order to get at the kids and the internet just makes it all the more easier.
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if he was a fiddler that would've come out when Hollingworth was accused of covering up abuse in the Anglican church.

for me, I think he's innocent and that the case against him is probably weak. He never struck me as the type, he seems to be quite honest, though somewhat foolish in the way he dealt with the other members of the clergy.
 
Pell deserves a robust defence if he is charged, as every Australian does.
Let the facts speak for themselves.

The court of public opinion is entitled to judge his performance in regard to other proven cases, given his position, though I can't see any point harping on those opinions during this stage of the proceedings.
 
Juddism said:
if he was a fiddler that would've come out when Hollingworth was accused of covering up abuse in the Anglican church.

for me, I think he's innocent and that the case against him is probably weak. He never struck me as the type, he seems to be quite honest, though somewhat foolish in the way he dealt with the other members of the clergy.
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If its the one I think it is, the guy has been claiming it for 2 or 3 decades and said it involved another kid - who consistently denied it over the years but is now dead.

Its been investigated over and over by Vic Pol, Vic Parliament and the Royal Commission.
 
Gavin Excell said:
Pretty much my mail too.

Went to boarding chool St Patricks Ballarat in the 80s. Kids knew who was dodgy and who was not. Pell was a big name Ballarat but his only flaw if you could call it that was that he was aloof and ambitious. Never heard anything about him being a fiddler.

Will be interesting to see how the case plays out. Id like to think the Victorian polices embarrassing and wrong submissions to the Royal Commission were more a case of ineptitude than a conspiracy but not entirely convinced of that.
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There was definitely a culture of protecting the church that was alive and well in the highest levels of Victorian society, Government and law enforcement circa 40s-70s.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/they...t-he-was-right-all-along-20160811-gqq1x2.html

 
HairyO said:
If its the one I think it is, the guy has been claiming it for 2 or 3 decades and said it involved another kid - who consistently denied it over the years but is now dead.

Its been investigated over and over by Vic Pol, Vic Parliament and the Royal Commission.
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If it's that one, I can say personally that certain published details are impossible and others so unlikely as to almost be disregarded. There's no access to the communion wine at St Pats and the Archbishop doesn't stick around afterwards. As an altar boy you hoped he would, because he was famous and you kind of wanted that association with fame but he would do the greeting thing out the front then he'd be gone. The bloke you dealt with was another priest who got you organised and made sure you had your jobs sorted.
 
Norwood1878 said:
There was definitely a culture of protecting the church that was alive and well in the highest levels of Victorian society, Government and law enforcement circa 40s-70s.
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I knew a bloke who was at Christian Bros in Broadmeadows in the 1950's, a nun used to pay him a teaspoon of peanut butter if he would jerk her off. The same bloke spent 3 days in the local Police lockup after he put a complaint against one of the Brothers. They wouldn't let him out until he recanted his story.
He gave a submission to the inquiry a year or so before he passed away.
 

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BruceFromBalnarring said:
I don't think that's the case. It shouldn't be underestimated the scale of corruption in the Vatican and the job Pell has done and is doing to root it out. It's about the only matter I think upon which the Pope and Pell agree.
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He' s always a good administrator but a really s**t pastor- Frank giving him that role was playing to George's strengths - he could not really stay here after his "it's not a matter which held much interest"
 
Gavin Excell said:
Pretty much my mail too.

Went to boarding chool St Patricks Ballarat in the 80s. Kids knew who was dodgy and who was not. Pell was a big name Ballarat but his only flaw if you could call it that was that he was aloof and ambitious. Never heard anything about him being a fiddler.

Will be interesting to see how the case plays out. Id like to think the Victorian polices embarrassing and wrong submissions to the Royal Commission were more a case of ineptitude than a conspiracy but not entirely convinced of that.
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I don't understand why the DPP is going through with it. Even on a best case scenario, from what we know of the evidence its equivocal. The Magistrate will find there is an arguable case and commit him but I doubt a judge will let it get to a jury - waste of time and money! Unfortunately, you can't be charged for being a heartless campaigner! The flagellating Opus Dei types will then canonise their martyr - which is s**t for the sex abuse victims of the Church and all thinking Catholics
 
Contra Mundum said:
I don't understand why the DPP is going through with it. Even on a best case scenario, from what we know of the evidence its equivocal. The Magistrate will find there is an arguable case and commit him but I doubt a judge will let it get to a jury - waste of time and money! Unfortunately, you can't be charged for being a heartless campaigner! The flagellating Opus Dei types will then canonise their martyr - which is s**t for the sex abuse victims of the Church and all thinking Catholics
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And the haters will still believe he is guilty. Mud sticks
 
Gavin Excell said:
Pretty much my mail too.

Went to boarding chool St Patricks Ballarat in the 80s. Kids knew who was dodgy and who was not. Pell was a big name Ballarat but his only flaw if you could call it that was that he was aloof and ambitious. Never heard anything about him being a fiddler.

Will be interesting to see how the case plays out. Id like to think the Victorian polices embarrassing and wrong submissions to the Royal Commission were more a case of ineptitude than a conspiracy but not entirely convinced of that.
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Went to a Catholic boys school as well, and there definitely dodgy priests that you would keep your distance from, but i to have heard Pell was OK, perhaps and i have stated this before that Pell is paying for the sins of his brothers - so to speak.

It appears the higher you go, the less trust you can have in Authority, i am beginning to have not a lot of trust in a Police force that sets its mind on something, dismantle it and somewhere will be a Priest hating DPP or high ranking cop that is having plenty of say.
 
Contra Mundum said:
He' s always a good administrator but a really s**t pastor- Frank giving him that role was playing to George's strengths - he could not really stay here after his "it's not a matter which held much interest"
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That quote was simply a horrible misrepresentation by the media. This isn't verbatim but it actually went kind of like this.....

Counsel Assisting: "What did you understand was the issue around Ridsdale?"
Pell: "Well I understood he had issues with homosexuality"
CA: "Well did that not, at least, lead you to ask questions around pedophilia?"
Pell: "No. It was a sad story but it wasn't of much interest to me."

Pell was saying that (what he understood was) Ridsdale's homosexuality was none of his business.

But your point about Pell's distance and absence of warmth is a good one. He was never the pastoral type.
 
Juddism said:
if he was a fiddler that would've come out when Hollingworth was accused of covering up abuse in the Anglican church.

for me, I think he's innocent and that the case against him is probably weak. He never struck me as the type, he seems to be quite honest, though somewhat foolish in the way he dealt with the other members of the clergy.
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Just don't buy the first para. There has been a huge amount of information that has come out since that time on a variety of matters.

Frankly, given we don't know the details of the charges your assertion that Pell is innocent can be no more than partiality.

What we do know is there are multiple charges from multiple complainants, as Deputy Commissioner Patten said. We just don't know the extent of both.

My information from people who knew him from his school days in Ballarat differ from the 'good bloke' information you have.

The way he threw the late Archbishop Little under the bus to protect himself was shameful in my view.

He does have outstanding legal representation by having in his corner a barro with record of success in cases many considered virtually unwinnable. If RR can't find a means of avoiding conviction I doubt anyone could.

Let's hope Pell is paying the piper and not the church through some mechanism or some so-called do-gooders. My guess it will be the latter.
 
Contra Mundum said:
I don't understand why the DPP is going through with it. Even on a best case scenario, from what we know of the evidence its equivocal.
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That's the beauty of it. "What we know of the evidence" is stuff all. The number of complainants and the nature of their allegations is unknown.

There could be more beyond those which have been previously aired, and indeed it could be a set of entirely different people from those who are known.

Suffice to say that the OPP, with access to all the evidence, and the expertise to properly assess it, has determined that it should proceed - and being fully aware of the public embarrassment which would follow a complete failure (ie. discharge or no case).

Whether that is right or wrong will be determined in the future, by those who are properly informed; it's not something which can be properly assessed from afar now.
 
AM said:
Just don't buy the first para. There has been a huge amount of information that has come out since that time on a variety of matters.

Frankly, given we don't know the details of the charges your assertion that Pell is innocent can be no more than partiality.

What we do know is there are multiple charges from multiple complainants, as Deputy Commissioner Patten said. We just don't know the extent of both.

My information from people who knew him from his school days in Ballarat differ from the 'good bloke' information you have.

The way he threw the late Archbishop Little under the bus to protect himself was shameful in my view.

He does have outstanding legal representation by having in his corner a barro with record of success in cases many considered virtually unwinnable. If RR can't find a means of avoiding conviction I doubt anyone could.

Let's hope Pell is paying the piper and not the church through some mechanism or some so-called do-gooders. My guess it will be the latter.
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Are you joking? Little refused to sack Searson. Knowing he was an abuser. Pell sacked him (I think before even discovering he was an abuser) and refused Vatican orders to reappoint him. In what way is relating these facts "throwing Little under a bus"? Little was a disgrace. A contemptible coward. So was Mulkearns. As a leader, Pell stands head and shoulders above these two pissants.
 
BruceFromBalnarring said:
Are you joking? Little refused to sack Searson. Knowing he was an abuser. Pell sacked him (I think before even discovering he was an abuser) and refused Vatican orders to reappoint him. In what way is relating these facts "throwing Little under a bus"? Little was a disgrace. A contemptible coward. So was Mulkearns. As a leader, Pell stands head and shoulders above these two pissants.
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And are you saying he never, ever, ever supported Ridsdale, or tried to cover up what that spider did?
 
AM said:
Just don't buy the first para. There has been a huge amount of information that has come out since that time on a variety of matters.

Frankly, given we don't know the details of the charges your assertion that Pell is innocent can be no more than partiality.

What we do know is there are multiple charges from multiple complainants, as Deputy Commissioner Patten said. We just don't know the extent of both.

My information from people who knew him from his school days in Ballarat differ from the 'good bloke' information you have.

The way he threw the late Archbishop Little under the bus to protect himself was shameful in my view.

He does have outstanding legal representation by having in his corner a barro with record of success in cases many considered virtually unwinnable. If RR can't find a means of avoiding conviction I doubt anyone could.

Let's hope Pell is paying the piper and not the church through some mechanism or some so-called do-gooders. My guess it will be the latter.
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Clericalism never dies mate - the only virtue is loyalty. He has some filthy rich mates who will be paying


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
roscreasl98 said:
And are you saying he never, ever, ever supported Ridsdale, or tried to cover up what that spider did?
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*Looks through what I wrote.* *Wonders how in the hell that interpretation came about*

Pell accompanied Ridsdale to Court on a single occasion. You want to talk about being tossed under a bus.....

And yes......I am saying it wasn't Pell who covered up what Ridsdale did.
 
BruceFromBalnarring said:
*Looks through what I wrote.* *Wonders how in the hell that interpretation came about*

Pell accompanied Ridsdale to Court on a single occasion. You want to talk about being tossed under a bus.....

And yes......I am saying it wasn't Pell who covered up what Ridsdale did.
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And moved him from parish to parish to parish.
Why did he do that do you reckon?
 
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