Opinion The 'Carlton related stuff that doesn't need it's own thread' thread Part 3

[Arr0w]

Watching at the ground last week I can say Williams’ manning of Greene in the first half was pretty ridiculous. Peeled off, got sucked into contests letting Greene out the back, generally just left Greene standing out on his own at all times. We just got lucky the ball didn’t get directed his way often.

Then 2nd half Boyd looked great on Greene in comparison just by actually standing near him.

I don't have an issue with half backs, reading the unfolding play to determine if they need to close the gap on an opponent or peel off to anticipate a turnover to our advantage

But, their number 1 priority is to defend first

 

[ctwenty1]

First crack showed some examples of Acres and Zac's being poor defensively. They focussed on them two.

Cats players sprinting through the middle to provide additional options inside their f50 on transitions.

Our players couldn't keep up with them. They out ran us - strangely we were thinking they'd have heavy legs due to playing under wet conditions in brissie the week prior.

Zac beaten by stengles on one-ones and also left him free at times which initiated some of their transitions.

So much so that Kingy called for Voss to drop Zac to the 2s to bring the standard back up. Highly paid player needs to be better.

Acres does enough in other areas to "equalise" his lapses I suppose.

Agree on Williams criticism but shouldn't be dropped - he needs more time working with the others.

Touhy got away from Ollie a few times and that cause us goals too

All said and done, Voss was pissed off with the whole team's defensive efforts, not just a couple of players.

All these faults and inefficiencies in front of goal, and we almost still (and arguably should've) won.

We are the real deal. Tighten those issues up and we have 17 this year, easy.

 

[Accidental genius]

interesting stat on on the couch last night….

Cats went to each of their forwards about the same number of times (4-5).

Whereas we predominantly went to Charlie and H (~17/18 times) and very infrequently to our other forwards (~4-5 times).

It’s not like Hawkins and Cameron are spuds. They’ve got a very effective forward attack strategy and it’s not rocket science.

And on an interesting side note - Lyon mentioned that clubs tending towards more mobile forwards (his segment “are forwards getting shorter”).

When will our coaches/players realise that we need a more thoughtful strategy for our f50 entries.

 

[Benaly28]

interesting stat on on the couch last night….

Cats went to each of their forwards about the same number of times (4-5).

Whereas we predominantly went to Charlie and H (~17/18 times) and very infrequently to our other forwards (~4-5 times).

It’s not like Hawkins and Cameron are spuds. They’ve got a very effective forward attack strategy and it’s not rocket science.

And on an interesting side note - Lyon mentioned that clubs tending towards more mobile forwards (his segment “are forwards getting shorter”). forwards are getting shorter.

When will our coaches/players realise that we need a more thoughtful strategy for our f50 entries.

I think the coaches are fully aware,I’m thinking the players just can’t work out that there are going to be free players if Charlie and Harry get double teamed.

A genuine third option (ie Jsos) is the sort of player we’re missing.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Accidental genius]

I think the coaches are fully aware,I’m thinking the players just can’t work out that there are going to be free players if Charlie and Harry get double teamed.

A genuine third option (ie Jsos) is the sort of player we’re missing.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

You are probably right. They’d have to know.

we lowered the eyes a lot more than usual against gws the week before.

Against cats we regressed a bit.

We’ve got a lot going right.

I believe we would have beaten cats if we had better quality going into our forward arc.

That’s a scary thought for thecrestbof the comp considering our mounting injuries and the quality of the cats.

 

[CCurnow3votes]

I think the coaches are fully aware,I’m thinking the players just can’t work out that there are going to be free players if Charlie and Harry get double teamed.

A genuine third option (ie Jsos) is the sort of player we’re missing.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Martin is the key that’s missing.

As much as it’s hard not having him out there now - appreciate them getting him cherry for his return and our run through finals.

Throw in TDK, Motlop , Fogarty & Cunningham, Elijah, Cripps - Williams ?

Plenty of options as players start to come back towards the business end of the season.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

interesting stat on on the couch last night….

Cats went to each of their forwards about the same number of times (4-5).

Whereas we predominantly went to Charlie and H (~17/18 times) and very infrequently to our other forwards (~4-5 times).

It’s not like Hawkins and Cameron are spuds. They’ve got a very effective forward attack strategy and it’s not rocket science.

And on an interesting side note - Lyon mentioned that clubs tending towards more mobile forwards (his segment “are forwards getting shorter”). forwards are getting shorter.

When will our coaches/players realise that we need a more thoughtful strategy for our f50 entries.

Quality of the kickers going inside 50 is the key. Miers, Close, Cameron, Stengle and Dempsey are absolutely deadly by foot. Unfortunately we don't have the same talent kicking to our forwards and most of it is left to our inside mids to do, who are normally under far more pressure than Geelongs half forwards.

 

[JustaBattler]

I think people are confusing pressured kicking efficiency with unpressured kicking efficiency. If teams are allowed to walk the ball out of forward fifty and employ over the top joe the goose easy flank releases - they will always look like better kicks- because the receivers have time and space and forwards have time to make space.

This is what Geelong ( and other teams) have been able to manage far too often against Carlton and this is why Voss has declared poor team defensive execution as enemy #1.

The second issue is failure to finish the work by conversion. If TDK/Harry/Charlie present a big challenge to defending teams because of their height - their relative lack of defensive speed is also a negative if reasonable conversion rates arent achieved.

Strengths are only strengths if they put score on the board. If goals are kicked then defensive team rebound is non-existent because it is reload again in CBB and Carlton has got its mojo back there.

So all the 'analysis' going on has to reference the basics and that is if you are good enough to dominate possession/contest and territory - you also have to convert if you dont, then you play into the rebound teams strengths and if your smalls arent covering the exits as well as they should - the opposition is always in the game.

Carlton is 'short' reliable finishers in the forward lines - simple as that - comments like 'lowering the eyes' are well meaning but the forward line ahs to work smarter - nto harder...Durdin/Owies aren't smart players they are straight line players and they play more like ambitious midfielders than small forwards - whilst Charlie is a factor X player - he could do a lot better using his running and harry could do a lot better leading. this congested front of goal square attack is ok - but shouldn't be the only avenue to goal - and that is where the HFF & flanks come in to play - they need to be both a target that can finish and also a link that can find a spare player.

and that si all about class- - hence Cuningham/Martin and Fantasia are better options.

 

[blues4flag]

So all the 'analysis' going on has to reference the basics and that is if you are good enough to dominate possession/contest and territory - you also have to convert if you dont, then you play into the rebound teams strengths and if your smalls arent covering the exits as well as they should - the opposition is always in the game.

Excellent post - particularly this point. We're now good enough to dominate field position most weeks, which means our F50 is going to be more congested, and also leaves us prone out the back. If we're not defending exits, or our defenders make the wrong decision (peel off at the wrong time / lose proximity with their opponents), then we find ourselves vulnerable.

People often mention Young's 2022 form - I wonder if our territory domination is part of it. 2022, we were more defensive, the opposition had slower entries and we had numbers back to support. Young does well under the high ball in the pack. Now, he's often one out in a lot of space, and fewer dump kicks are coming in. Makes poor decision and loses his man far too easily.

 

[heatleystandend]

A lot of talk about our forward conversion etc. Yes, we are missing too many easy shots but talk about offensive deficiencies is off the mark. We have scored 98 and 2 plus 100 totals the last 3 weeks. They are scores that should have produced 3 wins.
Voss is right on this one and our failure to defend all over the ground has been woeful. This is our biggest area to address this week.

 

[Ezayyak]

interesting stat on on the couch last night….

Cats went to each of their forwards about the same number of times (4-5).

Whereas we predominantly went to Charlie and H (~17/18 times) and very infrequently to our other forwards (~4-5 times).

It’s not like Hawkins and Cameron are spuds. They’ve got a very effective forward attack strategy and it’s not rocket science.

And on an interesting side note - Lyon mentioned that clubs tending towards more mobile forwards (his segment “are forwards getting shorter”). forwards are getting shorter.

When will our coaches/players realise that we need a more thoughtful strategy for our f50 entries.

Henry makes it possible for the cats to open up the 50 for them. That's we we are missing JSOS or Martin.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

Adding Martin and Fog to the forward line would make a significant difference, plus 'link' players like Cunners, Eli and Fanta delivering the ball.
Big question is...how do we fit them all in along with Acres, Cotts, Cerra, Walsh, 2 ruckmen and 3 big bodied contested mids?
Plus Mots, when he's ready.

I'd love see Walsh, Cerra, Eli, Acres, Cunners and Fanta streaming into our forward line with spread and overlap handpasses then delivering bullet passes to Harry, Charlie, Martin, TDK. But is it possible to achieve this with only dropping CDurds, Owies and Carroll?

 

[Accidental genius]

Henry makes it possible for the cats to open up the 50 for them. That's we we are missing JSOS or Martin.

Yeap agree.

Having 3 talls in H Charlie and tdk makes it easier but they need to mark inboack situations and then kick straight.

If they don’t - ball goes out of our d50 like a rocket sleigh.

i think an easier/more functioning strategy might be to have 2 of charlie/H/tdk and a third tall that is mobile/ has footy smarts, good aerially and can kick goals.

 

[Lace_Out]

interesting stat on on the couch last night….

Cats went to each of their forwards about the same number of times (4-5).

Whereas we predominantly went to Charlie and H (~17/18 times) and very infrequently to our other forwards (~4-5 times).

It’s not like Hawkins and Cameron are spuds. They’ve got a very effective forward attack strategy and it’s not rocket science.

And on an interesting side note - Lyon mentioned that clubs tending towards more mobile forwards (his segment “are forwards getting shorter”).

When will our coaches/players realise that we need a more thoughtful strategy for our f50 entries.

Said it for a while because we have H & Charlie inside 50 we tend to bomb it in as a get out of jail card.. has just as much to do with our lack of composure as it does our game plan.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

 

[Red_man2008]

Blues top of the pack.

 

[Graffy4242]

Blues top of the pack.

View attachment 1976184

LOL Norf

 

[HereComesJuddy]

LOL Norf

They need to pack that club in and we can then take Larkey, Sheezel & Duursma

 

[thegreatbeast]

Not sure where to put this, I am 13 mins in. Very interesting discussion about the "pressure gauge" that is often shown/mentioned in the media and during games.

TLDR;

Carlton is the best pressure team in the comp in both metrics that they use. Fogarty is the best pressure forward in the comp.

 

[TENACIOUS]

Geez… I wish this had of happened IRL

 

[Thrawn]

Geez… I wish this had of happened IRL

I don't.

A 50 year old Voss would be slaughtered.

 

[TENACIOUS]

I don't.

A 50 year old Voss would be slaughtered.

 

[Lace_Out]

Thought norf had fallen off the table for a minute.

Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

 

[BlueSuede]

Blues top of the pack.

View attachment 1976184

I don't really understand that table, but I like that we seem to be the best at it

 

[Graffy4242]

Blues top of the pack.

View attachment 1976184

Norf proving that there is a place beyond despair!!

 

[Bluewatch]

Hi All

First post of hopefully many!

Does anyone know which side of the MCG our cheer squad will likely sit on for the Melbourne game next week? Flying into Melbs and looking to see my first game at the G!