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Carlton player Liam Jones refusing vax - Update: Jones retires from AFL

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guys if we can keep this thread to discuss the rumours of a certain carlton player who may or may not have declined to be vaxxed - it is Tom Browne after all - and not treat the thread like its a referendum on vaccinations in general - theres an entire hot topic board for that - that would be fantastic.

Both sides of the argument need to calm down. Im handing out cards and days off to those who dont take the hint.
 
The_Wookie said:
guys if we can keep this thread to discuss the rumours of a certain carlton player who may or may not have declined to be vaxxed - it is Tom Browne after all - and not treat the thread like its a referendum on vaccinations in general - theres an entire hot topic board for that - that would be fantastic.

Both sides of the argument need to calm down. Im handing out cards and days off to those who dont take the hint.
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So who is it? lol.
 
Shadow89 said:
Apologies, and this is going to sound pretty harsh, but you honestly have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to the UN lol.

They are the most powerless institution in the world, and can't enforce anything. It's Timor you're thinking of, not Iraq btw. I had someone come from the UN and explain this all to us at university, when she guest lectured. They have no authority, which is why the Rwandan genocide happened, refugees in Australia continue to be illegally detained even though it contravenes international human rights charters, and they haven't done sh*t about the Uyghurs who are being systemically exterminated via 'reeducation camps' in Xinjiang.

You need to stop referring to the UN and human rights charters, as you're way off base when it comes to all of this.
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So the UN won’t protect our human rights and our own constitution in this country won’t protect our human rights. It seems that our governments, both state and federal are feeding us a load of bullshit. Why should we believe anything they tell us? Why should we just accept that their mandates do have our best interests at heart? I’m being a little cheeky here but let’s not pick and choose when we use them as a reference point. Let’s not refer to them as experts or even trust that they are representing the experts view accurately just because they suit our argument at the time. They detain refugees in the best interests of the whole. Sounds like a default strategy behind all their big decisions. We take it hook, line and sinker and just throw away our basic rights without a fight.
 
Ih8bombers said:
Shadow, I think you will agree and you know that those other vaccinations were developed in a way that proved safe previously. They were produced and tested over a long period of time. During this time their merits were debated and and people at least developed informed opinions resulting in the majority of people endorsing it. So, regardless of my personal view I accept the decision of the majority. The current vaccination was introduced in haste, using new technology deemed essential by the experts. I’m not suggesting it’s unsafe but I think if some people have doubts about it’s safety I can understand their position. My argument as to why the mandate is not currently required given our vaccination rates was expressed in an earlier post. I would link it for you but I’m new to posting so I haven’t quite worked out how to do this yet.
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You seem a lot more measured than the other poster, so kudos to you for having your opinion but not going full 5G crazy either.

I've got a fair bit to say in response to some of that, but, I think we've both covered our positions and made our point - so why don't we say we're at impasse, leave it there and call it a day? :)

I think we've all sufficiently drained the mods enough for one night, haha.
 

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Shadow89 said:
You seem a lot more measured than the other poster, so kudos to you for having your opinion but not going full 5G crazy either.

I've got a fair bit to say in response to some of that, but, I think we've both covered our positions and made our point - so why don't we say we're at impasse, leave it there and call it a day? :)

I think we've all sufficiently drained the mods enough for one night, haha.
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Feelings mutual
 
And_ROOS said:
At minimum, vaccinations will prevent our hospital system getting ******* obliterated like countries overseas have been. The countries struggling the most? Ones with a large anti-vaccination group.
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Not totally true, people in many poorer countries have been left stranded without vaccines that the population would happily take. Yesterday the world passed 50% of population having recieved at least 1 dose, thete is a long long way to go yet.

Dont expect anyone to be taking a knee or anything though.
 
And_ROOS said:
No the research says that the both have the same viral load at peak, BUT (and this is the clear distinction) that vaccinated people clear it out of the system quicker.

So if you are contagious for 2 days approx when you are vaccinated, compared to 5-9 days approx for someone unvaccinated, who is the more likely based on that stat alone to spread the virus?

And good that you had your jab, but there are genuinely immunocomprimised people who can't get the jab, and then have to hope the anti-vaxx community don't go out in big numbers and cause a super spreader event like they did at the Melbourne protest.
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Important to note that in Victoria, how the virus spreads is dependant on what protest is about. The BLM protest for example was a much safer one.
 
The Falcon Strike said:
I love how there is no nuance between

Vaccinated and anti vaxxer.

Plenty of people are vaccinated, happily so - but still anti-mandate.

Don't get me wrong - conspiracy theories are crazy. And there are always going to be hardcord anti vaxxers

But there are also plenty of people who may have concerns about a medical treatment that is still very much in it's infancy .
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Because virtually all of the 'anti-mandate' crowd are spouting word-for-word antivax arguments and claims. There's nothing novel or interesting here, it's literally Antivax 101 repackaged for covid.

Plus, most of them behave like anti-vaxxers. When presented with arguments that contradict their claims, they immediately just shift the goalposts to something else, or resort to childish name calling.
 
The Falcon Strike said:
That assumes that those immuno compromised people won't die of the common cold, flu, bronchitis already right?

At our current vaccination rate - deaths from COVID will be less than from other infectious respiratory disease.

Or do we not care about immune compromised people dying of bronchitis and pneumonia?
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I used to visit an elderly person in a nursing home. I had to get a flu shot and provide proof of vaccinations before being allowed in.

So yes, it seems like we do care about immunocompromised people dying of other diseases and needing to protect them. I don't think this was the gotcha that you intended it to be.
 
Kreuuuzeurns said:
I’m not doubting this stat at all but I reckon the risk of dying would be significantly less in 18-35 year old fit and healthy athletes.
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Unfortunately, no.
 

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Choc Milk said:
If the government wanted to poison you they would put stuff in the water supply. Honestly I can't get over these lunatics on Facebook claiming this anti-vaxx crap. It would be funny if it wasn't so serious.
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I can't believe there are so many people stupid enough to believe that stuff.

A small percentage of society has always been straight up nuts, but I feel like some people are enjoying messing with other people who are gullible and not smart enough to check the basic facts.

Like when they start looking for JFK Jnr or eating horse dewormer then you know the vaccine sentiments are just a sign of deeper issues.
 
freddy mercury said:
Good on him, made his choice and sticking by it.
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Yep, by all means stick to your principles. But, he better have a well paid back up job lined up, one that doesn’t require being vaccinated. Because it will be “sayonara” as far as playing AFL goes. And deservedly so.
 
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Stax on the mill said:
Yep, by all means stick to your principles. But, he better have a well paid back up job lined up, one that doesn’t require being vaccinated. Because it will be “sayonara” as far as playing AFL goes. And deservedly so.
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Nobody should lose their livelihood if they don't want to be vaccinated. Not fair in any way
 

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If the
freddy mercury said:
Nobody should lose their livelihood if they don't want to be vaccinated. Not fair in any way
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If they’re deemed to be a potential health risk to others, and still refuse to be vaccinated, then it’s absolutely fair and reasonable that they pursue a different career path. One that doesn’t require mandatory vaccinations.
 
Two degrees of separation from him, Liam is a lovely guy but not exactly the most academic of fellows.
 

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Carlton player Liam Jones refusing vax - Update: Jones retires from AFL

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