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Carlton player Liam Jones refusing vax - Update: Jones retires from AFL
- Thread starter 2ballz
- Start date
- Tagged users None
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- Apr 23, 2016
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Weird comment, how does the club you support indicate views or qualifications to comment on anything?
creepyguy23
Debutant
Unless old mate is planning on becoming a Doctor or high-end lawyer, I hope he realises the money he has been on the past few years is not normal in the real world. He certainly is giving up a lot.
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- Apr 23, 2016
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So no evidence to support that one either then?
We’ll add that to the long list of statements you’ve made that you can’t actually support.
- Banned
- #681
First source is TGA's Database and second a preprint with the complete manuscript of the research.
Many looking at preprints when published, peer reviewed can take 6 months longer.
But it's not a secret that viral loads are similar between vaxxed and unvaxxed as the CDC's Wallensky has quoted data with the same findings.
- Banned
- #682
covid was the search term in DAEN.
LOLZ. Not often I get pulled up for using less words than necessary!
"COVID vaccine injections"!
- Dec 18, 2007
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The vaccine is the road out of this pandemic because it then becomes treatable like the Influenza virus.
- Banned
- #684
I've read many of the published peer reviewed and quoted the Qatar RCT with over 144,000 in each group, but critical analysis of preprints keep up to date with the latest data.
Wallensky and Fauci were quoting similar data showing vaxxed and unvaxxed have similar viral loads in nose titres months ago.
Glad we agree on the antibodies from vaxxed and recovered patients will disappear, but part of the natural immunity process is for helper and memory TCells to then be formed. The inability of vaxxed to show wide ranging or durable helper or memory TCell immunity, when published peer reviewed data shows this is occurring in recovered patients as long as they've recorded and looking to last as long as the 17 years after SARS CoV 1, means they have to keep topping up with boosters.
The problem is that Corona vaccines elicit antibodies against the spike protein alone, while natural infection provokes antibodies against other virus proteins as well, including the nucleocapsid or N protein.
Just trying to keep a narrow antibody response against the single S spike protein with the vaccine and then boosters, is showing serious safety signals destroying natural immunity measured by antibody response to N protein, with the latest UK Vaccine Surveillance data, pg 23 "N antibody levels appear to be lower in individuals who acquire infection following 2 doses of vaccination.”
A brief letter to the editor of the Journal of Infection confirms the findings of the UK Health Security Agency, that prior vaccination inhibits anti N antibody response and negatively influence subsequent immune response to SARS CoV 2, or any infection.
https://assets.publishing.service.g...27511/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-42.pdf
Serological markers of SARS-CoV-2 infection; anti-nucleocapsid antibody positivity may not be the ideal marker of natural infection in vaccinated individuals
We write in response to correspondence from Whitaker et al. in this Journal (1). The authors demonstrate increases in seropositivity for SARS-CoV-2 antibodies against the spike protein as the roll out of COVID-19 vaccines continues, whilst parallel assessment of nucleocapsid antibodies remained...
www.journalofinfection.com
chopflop
Premiership Player
- Nov 15, 2020
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Rubbish MRNA is being used in other parts of medical science without issue.
So COVID won't kill us all, but we'll be worn down by lowered immunity against other illnesses? Wonderful!
Ashman OG
Nike TN Appreciation Society
- Jul 11, 2017
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What consequences? The blokes an afl footballer, wont die from covid so why get the jab?
Doesnt reduce the spread hence why we still have thousands of cases a day.
The problem here is that there is a proportion of pre-print papers that aren't the latest validated data, coupled with this is that many people "critically analysing" preprints are not qualified to do so meaning their version of "critical analysis" is not actually very critical but rather very "I believe everything that is written" or "I interpret this as x (when it is not what is being written or what is being intended by the author... case in point, the linking of anti-N protein levels to some sort of lack of immunity to covid above, and that T cell production is confined only to those that have natural immunity and not those who have been vaccinated)".
This creates dangerous misinformation situations. For example, if someone reads preprints A, B, C, & D concluding that E must be true and preprint C is retracted as it is found to be invalid, then E may not be true anymore. However, I highly doubt that many people here are keeping up to date with preprint retraction, so they continue thinking E is true. Now their knowledge is muddied because of an invalid preprint.
The biggest issue here though, is that people are posting theory E on forums and through various channels (media included) as fact, stating that E is true because I read "scientific papers". There's a hefty amount of the general population that then think "oh wow, E must be true because they read scientific papers" but don't have the time or desire to actually check those scientific papers and put full trust in the source who has incorrectly decided E is true.
I find it interesting that some people put so much weight into preprints (where the data can be changed before final publication, if they get to final publication) but tend to discount actual published data (often aggressively and riddled with condescension) when it doesn't suit their discussion.
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- Nov 3, 2020
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Okay, let's break this down...
1. "AFL players won't die from COVID" - have a look at these fit people.
Fitness enthusiast, 42, who rejected vaccine, dies of Covid
John Eyers had been climbing mountains four weeks before his death in intensive care
Sydney's youngest COVID-19 victim 'just got married a few months ago'
Friends and family of Aude Alaskar, who died "suddenly" from COVID-19 just months after getting married, say the news has left them with “breaking hearts”.
www.abc.net.au
Though young and healthy, unvaccinated father dies of COVID
Health officials in Alabama say they are seeing a spike in cases among young adults and children as the highly contagious delta variant sweeps through unvaccinated populations.
apnews.com
33-yr-old fitness influencer, who thought there's no COVID-19, dies from the virus
ukrainian fitness influencer dmitriy stuzhuk who thought coronavirus quotdoes not existquot has died after contracting the virus on a trip to turkey quoti also thought there was no covid19 until i got sickquot he had written in his instagram post days before his demise he had been discharged...
inshorts.com
2. "[The vaccine] doesn't reduce the spread hence why we still have thousands of cases a day"
I think you're also forgetting to mention that over the last 1-2 weeks we've come out of lockdown and many restrictions have eased. Where is the sudden increase of cases? Of course we're going to see a plateau for a few weeks first!
In September NSW was getting over 1,500 cases a day. Now less than 2 months later, their cases have fallen to only 1-200 per day!
View attachment 1278641
It's very clear to see that in Victoria last year during our large second wave, we were getting 15-20 deaths per day despite only having 5-700 cases per day (roughly a 2-3% death rate).
View attachment 1278468
Yet now when our state is at over 85% double vaxxed and is still getting over 1,000 cases per day, we're only getting 5-10 deaths per day (0.5-1% death rate).
View attachment 1278470
Not to mention, the hospitalisation rates and numbers of those in ICU/on ventilators comparing those vaccinated vs unvaccinated.
View attachment 1278471
What a coincidence, it's almost like vaccines work!
Thats a great win for vaccines then. You get a similar T cell response to an actual infection which does cause memory T cells to develop. However, due to the prior exposure you are much less likely to end up with a severe case when infected. Indeed most vaccine breathru cases are mild or asymptomatic.
This exposure then causes an immune boost as the vaccinated person has now been exposed to the whole antigen profile.
"Vaccine-induced CD4+ and CD8+ T cells specific for SARS-CoV-2 were qualitatively similar to baseline memory T cell responses generated following natural SARS-CoV-2 infection and mainly mapped to CM and EM1 memory T cell subsets". "Although we await follow-up studies to directly interrogate longevity, the observed induction of memory T cell subsets with capacity for durability by mRNA vaccination supports the hypothesis that vaccine-induced CD4+ and CD8+ T cell responses will be long lived and capable of contributing to future recall responses".
Rapid induction of antigen-specific CD4+ T cells is associated with coordinated humoral and cellular immunity to SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccination
SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccines have demonstrated remarkable efficacy, but T cell responses to vaccination have not been well studied. In a longitudinal cohort, Painter et al. show that mRNA vaccines activate SARS-CoV-2-specific T cells that could contribute to durable immunity. The findings highlight...
www.cell.com
"T cell immunity does require an infection to reactivate memory responses. This may result in mild or asymptomatic infections that would be considered “breakthrough” infection. Thus, the level and robustness of T cell memory responses would likely affect the clinical manifestations of the disease"
This study shows some of the immune response in vaccination breakthru cases, stating "Vaccinated infected individuals had markedly higher binding and neutralizing antibody responses as well as higher cellular immune responses compared with vaccinated uninfected individuals, suggesting that breakthrough infections triggered robust anamnestic immune responses. Robust and cross-reactive humoral and cellular immune responses were observed in vaccinated infected participants to all viral variants tested, including the delta variant. These data suggest important immunologic benefits of vaccination in the context of SARS-CoV-2 breakthrough infections"
and "Moreover, anamnestic antibody responses in breakthrough infections were similar in magnitude regardless of the length of time from vaccination suggesting the possibility of protection against severe disease for a prolonged period of time even after serum antibody titers decline".
Immune Responses in Fully Vaccinated Individuals Following Breakthrough Infection with the SARS-CoV-2 Delta Variant in Provincetown, Massachusetts
Background A cluster of over a thousand infections with the SARS-CoV-2 delta variant was identified in a predominantly fully vaccinated population in Provincetown, Massachusetts in July 2021. Immune responses in breakthrough infections with the SARS-CoV-2 delta variant remain to be defined...
- Mar 20, 2009
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- Banned
- #692
Good on him, fully support everyone's choices whether they're vaccinated or not.
maybe you could shout him a beer at the pub to celebrate you freedums....oh yeh maybe not
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One thing is consistent. Anti vaxers misrepresenting and miss quoting the truth to peddle their own agenda.
I have no problem people choosing not to get the vaccine now we have reached 80% and climbing. If 5% of the population refuse thats fine. Just dont expect others to take the risk with you so that means no job.
NT Govt is about to issue approx 550 stand down notices to people refusing to declare their status and get vaccinated.
Looks like an AFL player is about to do the same thing.
Life goes on. Until you catch covid and die or reduce your life capacity.
CrippsVoss17
Debutant
- Sep 23, 2021
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- #697
For how long? What other areas?
Why is it so hard to admit that we don't have long-term studies, but the best view on current science is the long-term effects will be negligible?
You see when people see blind loyalty to something with any questioning shut down, they sense a scam. If you want people to get the vaccine be honest that for a very minute percentage there are some side effects/cause medical issues (you know the risks the FDA, TGA etc warn about) and the long-term impact is unknown, but the best advice is it is safe. Then compare that to the risks of getting or spreading COVID and it becomes a simple risk/reward analysis.
As opposed to anyone who suggested COVID-19 started in a Wuhan lab based on looking at the location versus the initial outbreak, were shouted down as conspiracy theorists and blocked from the internet - then 18 months later guess what is fact?
So this is the issue in a a single post. There are legitimate arguments to be made, but unfortunately those arguments are usually being made by people who don't know what a fact is. Case in point - you.
So everyone who suggested COVID-19 started in a lab was blocked from the internet and it is a fact that COVID-19 started in a lab. Neither of these are facts, the first is a flat out lie, the second is a theory which has been gaining support lately, it may be found to be true in time but it is not a fact right now.
If you lie and misrepresent very basic things like these, people do not take what you say seriously. That is the way it goes.
It seems hypocritical to criticise people for not being honest and then, in the same post, not be honest.
Just note here that I'm not all out defending those who don't agree with you and not at all denying that it might eventually turn out to be the origin of covid, but can you not see the issues with this post?
Better Loosen Up
Brownlow Medallist
The consequences are not being able to play footy as well as all the other life constraints that come with not being vaccinated.
Are you really that daft that i have to explain this?