Carlton player Liam Jones refusing vax - Update: Jones retires from AFL

[Shadow89]

I'm really sorry to hear this. I don't know how you stomach all the anti-vaxxer nonsense after losing a loved one to the virus - you're made of tougher stuff than me! I would have been avoiding their sh*t like the plague. So many of them are the most selfish, unempathetic people that you're glad you'll never have to meet.

Yep you've nailed it with your assessment there. They all like to act like they're worldly experts, but they're just parroting shit they've read online, and acting like they're smarter than people who have devoted their entire lives to the study of this.

Then, when they do get sick or someone they love gets sick, they become 'born again' and get to do the whole 'oh I didn't realize, I was misled' blah blah blah. Even Trump tells people to get the vaccine, and he gets booed. That's how bad these people are - they're further off the deep end than a man who thinks raking leaves will stop climate induced wildfires.

It's so easy to be contrary and defiant, from the safety of your own home, when you don't have to experience tragedy. It's all just a big myth that doesn't exist, or is greatly exaggerated - until someone you know catches it and dies.

We seriously are such a stupid species.

 

[Wang Wang]

Yep you've nailed it with your assessment there. They all like to act like they're worldly experts, but they're just parroting sh*t they've read online, and acting like they're smarter than people who have devoted their entire lives to the study of this.

Then, when they do get sick or someone they love gets sick, they become 'born again' and get to do the whole 'oh I didn't realize, I was misled' blah blah blah. Even Trump tells people to get the vaccine, and he gets booed. That's how bad these people are - they're further off the deep end than a man who thinks raking leaves will stop climate induced wildfires.

It's so easy to be contrary and defiant, from the safety of your own home, when you don't have to experience tragedy. It's all just a big myth that doesn't exist, or is greatly exaggerated - until someone you know catches it and dies.

We seriously are such a stupid species.

Sorry to hear about your grandmother. It’s hard enough hearing the DIY researchers regurgitation of other’s lies without any personal tragedy. I know of one guy only that’s had it. A healthy 20 something year old and he told me 6 month later that he could still feel it in his lungs.

 

[kingswood71]

That would be found in the chart of deaths listing comorbidity and you'll notice that a super majority of young people who died of covid were obese.

Obesity trends in Australian adults | Obesity Evidence Hub

Two-thirds of Australian adults are now overweight (35.6%) or obese (31.3%).

www.obesityevidencehub.org.au

 

[Taylor]

View attachment 1278910

Obesity trends in Australian adults | Obesity Evidence Hub

Two-thirds of Australian adults are now overweight (35.6%) or obese (31.3%).

www.obesityevidencehub.org.au

Exactly. These percentages are also present in the US with higher figures in African American young women. The minority groups over represented in the covid death figures are also over represented in the obesity figures.

People can't be saved from themselves though.

 

[theyellowsash]

Maybe. Moderna was not long approved and already a 14 girl has died of ventricular fibrillation, reported on 20th October 2021.

On 7th October the TGA reported "Recently, Sweden and Denmark have temporarily paused the use of Spikevax (Moderna) for those aged under 31 and 18 years respectively, based on a study in progress carried out by Danish, Norwegian and Finnish public health agencies."

"The Canadian province of Ontario has issued a recommendation that those aged 24 and under receive the Comirnaty (Pfizer) vaccine preferentially over the Spikevax (Moderna) vaccine."

Finland, Denmark, France and Germany and Taiwan have since banned Moderna for under 18 - 31s, but Australia continue to promote Moderna for 12 year olds and above even though they know it is more than three times as concentrated as the Pfizer jab and associated with serious heart inflammatory safety concerns especially in young men, resulting in all these countries age restricting or banning it.

Pfizer only starting FDA ordered myopericarditis clinical trials, not due to be completed until between 2022 and 2027.

QLD Senator Renncik calling for all COVID vaccines to halt for under 18s.

yeah but did she die of moderna or with moderna?

 

[theyellowsash]

Exactly. These percentages are also present in the US with higher figures in African American young women. The minority groups over represented in the covid death figures are also over represented in the obesity figures.

People can't be saved from themselves though.

i guess fat people should just die right? and theres no reason for anyone to become overweight except for being a fat lazy slob who eats chocolate all day

 

[Taylor]

i guess fat people should just die right? and theres no reason for anyone to become overweight except for being a fat lazy slob who eats chocolate all day

That's a bit extreme. I think you should reevaluate your position on that one mate.
Obese people should get vaccinated and they should get in better shape.

Like I said though, people can't be saved from themselves.

 

[Forward Press]

Overweight people are as equally deserving of life as you and I, and that we are even entering this kind of discussion is repugnant and speaks volumes as to the character of the person bringing it up.

Yes, fat people are more likely to die of COVID than normal weight people. That is a fact, fine. However, that is not a justification for being against lockdowns or vaccines - they are humans too.

 

[BlueE]

And herein lies my all time greatest issue with what's going on at the moment. People are writing things as if they are fact when they currently are not. They may yet be proven true, but they currently are not.

I have no problem with this line of discussion if these people would prefix it with a minimal disclaimer of it not being a fact. This is what is creating an alternate "pandemic" in one of misinformation.

I think the irony is lost on you.

The greatest issue was that the COVID vaccines don't have peer reviewed, published double blinded RCTs for medium or long term safety beyond 2-6 months, or current efficacy and had to rely on compliance data or briefing documents presented by the developers to regulatory authorities. It was up to the developers to prove safety and they haven't.

Pfizer now ordered to start and complete over 10 studies to evaluate the safety and effectiveness of it's vaccine where there are serious safety signals, specifically heart inflammation in under 30 year olds and children, and a safety study of Pregnancy and Infant Outcomes. But the studies wont be competed until 2023 -2027.

The point made by James Lyons-Weiler, PhD Editor-in-Chief, in an editorial in Science, Public Health Policy, and the Law Volume 3:81–86 August, 2021 Clinical and Translational Research I linked is "if long-term randomized double blinded placebo-controlled clinical trials are not necessary for the long-term study of vaccine safety because we have “pharmacovigilance”; i.e. long-term post-market safety surveillance that is supported by widely accessible, passive vaccine adverse events tracking systems , we need to act if these signals lead to the inference or conclusion that vaccines might cause serious adverse events or death.

The amount of time it takes for victims of vaccines to acquire a ruling on causality in the United States National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, based on debates over highly granular details of evidence in support of or countering the hypothesis of causality, is befuddling. In some cases, the debates between experts, mediated by special masters, can last over 10 years.

This pace stands in stark contrast to the lightning — perhaps miraculous, perhaps magical — speed with which physicians involved in short-term randomized COVID-19 vaccine trials determined the noncausality of the deaths that occurred following exposure to the first-in-human experimental mRNA vaccines.

US FDA recently approved Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine for people sixteen years of age and older. They did so without holding the required advisory committee meeting. Acting Director Janet Woodcock must be held responsible for removing that particular safeguard. The purpose of the approval was to satisfy the requirements of the policy needs of allowing mandates (in the US, mandates for vaccines only approved for emergency use are not allowed). The realization that companies imposing mandates were sitting ducks for lawsuits for coercing individuals into human subjects research was an oversight by Dr. Anthony Fauci, who decreed unilaterally that companies could mandate or dismiss.

The fact that FDA skipped the step has led to intense scrutiny, with many questions opening up about disconnect between earlier claims of “safe and effective” and the fact that ongoing studies had not been completed. It looks as if FDA’s approval was designed to satisfy what was considered to be a required policy (mandates) instead of evidence based rendering of a policy position. This, of course, is not new; last month, FDA approved of an Alzheimer’s drug after ignoring input from an advisory board. Three of the board members resigned in protest.

A universal flaw with vaccine safety studies conducted by people with a vested interest in vaccines is the gross oversimplification assumption that all covariates are confounders. An ideal system would allow the use of such covariates as co-risk predictors along with vaccination status.

https://www.publichealthpolicyjournal.com/general-5
That the FDA have only just ordered Pfizer to being

 

[Gruffles]

I think the irony is lost on you.

The irony of people posting things as fact when they're not fact?

I'm not sure you're actually reading my posts and instead just writing whatever you want in reply. The rest of your post has absolutely nothing to do with what I was saying and the fact that you tried to link a girls death to her vaccination when it hasn't been proven.

 

[Toump Ass]

The minority groups over represented in the covid death figures are also over represented in the obesity figures.

People can't be saved from themselves though.

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here. Kinda sounds like you're saying minorities are either stupid or fat?

There's heaps of reasons why minorities are over-represented in death figures, especially in places like the US: reduced access to healthcare, increased exposure to the virus due to their occupational/living conditions would be the two main ones I'd have thought.

 

[BlueE]

While the number of deaths seems huge it’s important to remember that something like 9 have been linked to the COVID vaccine.

Also most vaccinations are done in young and healthy people. However with covid we’ve needed to jab everyone. When you do that, especially with number of elderly you greatly increase the chances of getting a number of deaths after the vaccine. However correlation does not always equal causation.

And the vaccine that has been been proven to be the cause of the 9 deaths (AZ) is being fazed out. AZ has saved many more lives than this.

I realise that the TGA have only admitted 9 of the deaths are directly related to the vaccines. That is without evidence of autopsies for even a small number of cases to establish cause. When an expert was brought in to assess a death the TGA said was not related, they had to change their assessment on the experts advice. However they still ignore the other 87 cases and 3 deaths from the same condition, becasue they didn't get expert advice for those cases.

Almost impossible to deny TTS for 160 cases and 8 deaths, but they have for the similar 87 reports and 4 deaths of Immune thrombocytopenia, (except one death was assessed by an expert), Immune Thrombocytopenic pupura, Thrombosis with Thrombocytopenia, Thrombocytopenia, or nearly 1500 reports and 26 deaths of thrombosis or deep vein thrombosis, and another 1162 reports and 36 deaths with increased D dimer levels.

TGA committed to watching safety signals and collect data from other countries becasue they started their roll outs well before Australia, but haven't acted to banning or age restricting AZ, Moderna or Pfizer based on data collected or their own strong safety warning signals.

They first ignored many countries banning AZ or age restricting it to over 60s so many would have died becasue the TGA didn't following that advice. For the current mRNA vaccines there are worse safety signals for heart inflammation for the exact AFL cohort of young men under 30, that is being found in many countries and Australia and they still don't act.

Most vaccinations had years of safety data and were not, never before approved for human genetic vaccines. My comparisons are the total of all 75 vaccines Australia has used over the last 50 years, with 7 months COVID vaccines in the same database of adverse event reports.

It's debatable that not being treated early with safe and effective therapeutics, or effectively later for the coagulation and inflammatory stages of COVID infection, would have saved many more lives.

 

[BlueE]

The irony of people posting things as fact when they're not fact?

I'm not sure you're actually reading my posts and instead just writing whatever you want in reply. The rest of your post has absolutely nothing to do with what I was saying and the fact that you tried to link a girls death to her vaccination when it hasn't been proven.

The irony that COVID vaccines have not finished long-term randomized double blinded placebo-controlled clinical trials and won't until at least 2023 - 2027. Regulatory authorities have ordered Pfizer to complete at least another 10 trials, because of safely concerns, especially for heart inflammation from “pharmacovigilance".

You are assuming safety of the COVID vaccines are fact when they haven't completed the basic requirements to be considered "fact" and need to rely on passive recording systems and the latest safety and efficacy data being published until their trials are finished years from now.

You made general statements in your post and didn't refer to the 14 year old girl's reported deaths due to Moderna vaccine, which was information from Senator Rennick's letter to the PM. I checked with the DAEN report for Moderna but can't see detailed information.

However, the TGA has said this and every other death except TTS, shortly after having the COVID vaccines is a co-incidence, so we'll have to wait for the Coroner's report to be made public.

Senator

 

[Gruffles]

The irony that COVID vaccines have not finished long-term randomized double blinded placebo-controlled clinical trials and won't until at least 2023 - 2027.

You are assuming safety of the COVID vaccines are fact when they haven't completed the basic requirements to be considered "fact" and need to rely on passive recording systems and the latest safety and efficacy data being published until their trials are finished years from now.

You made general statements in your post and didn't refer to the 14 year old girl's reported deaths due to Moderna vaccine

I haven't once referred to covid vaccine safety data, presented it as an outright safe vaccine, or stated that long term safety studies have been completed.

I haven't made any assumptions on that front and I'm not sure how you've decided I have from my posting.

I haven't made any general statements about the vaccines or deaths that would warrant mentioning the girl. If you could point me to my post where you think I should have then that'd be great.

 

[bing181]

You made general statements in your post and didn't refer to the 14 year old girl's reported deaths due to Moderna vaccine, which was information from Senator Rennick's letter to the PM. I checked with the DAEN report for Moderna but can't see detailed information.

When all you have is a letter from a climate-change-denying, conspiracy theorist right-wing nut job from Queensland, it's time to step away from the keyboard.

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

Quick question - how many boosters and at what interval would it take for you to say enough is enough and not wish to have any more covid vaccines injected into you?

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

Overweight people are as equally deserving of life as you and I, and that we are even entering this kind of discussion is repugnant and speaks volumes as to the character of the person bringing it up.

Yes, fat people are more likely to die of COVID than normal weight people. That is a fact, fine. However, that is not a justification for being against lockdowns or vaccines - they are humans too.

So are people who do not wish to be vaccinated. Some of them are even nurses who would wipe your ass when your 90 years old.. Don't be so quick to judge.

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

BREAKING REPORT: European drug regulator EMA is investigating REPORTS OF A 'RARE' AND SERIOUS BLOOD CONDITION in recipients of Moderna’s mRNA COVID-19 vaccine..

Completely safe

 

[bing181]

Completely safe

@ChuckCallesto
BREAKING REPORT: European drug regulator EMA is investigating REPORTS OF A 'RARE' AND SERIOUS BLOOD CONDITION in recipients of Moderna’s mRNA COVID-19 vaccine..


I'll just blindly copy/paste this Twitter post - complete with double full stops and random capitalisation - from Chuck Callista, a right-wing Trump-supporting nut job from Florida. But heh, I'm not a sheep.

You people are a parody of yourselves.

Baa.

 

[BlueE]

When all you have is a letter from a climate-change-denying, conspiracy theorist right-wing nut job from Queensland, it's time to step away from the keyboard.

No, there was the TGA database of adverse event notification report, after Moderna vaccine.

AT least someone is standing up and asking questions about why 14 year olds are dying after being jabbed and wanting somehting done about it However, as I said in my first post about her death I doubt anyone will do anything in response to her death or if AFL players suddenly start having serious cardiac events or dying at training or games.

It's already happening to many athletes all over the world.

 

[BlueE]

The irony of people posting things as fact when they're not fact?

I haven't once referred to covid vaccine safety data, presented it as an outright safe vaccine, or stated that long term safety studies have been completed.

I haven't made any assumptions on that front and I'm not sure how you've decided I have from my posting.

I haven't made any general statements about the vaccines or deaths that would warrant mentioning the girl. If you could point me to my post where you think I should have then that'd be great.

"And herein lies my all time greatest issue with what's going on at the moment. People are writing things as if they are fact when they currently are not. They may yet be proven true, but they currently are not."

You've been saying non peer reviewed RCT research, published early in preprints, shouldn't be looked at or considered to be facts, but COVID vaccine developers have published similar or less peer reviewed, randomised double blinded, placebo-controlled clinical trials.

If you consider both in the same category of not being "facts", fine.

Many on here don't.

My bringing up of the death of a 14 year old girl shortly after having the Moderna jab was in reply to another poster, saying they wonder if it would take a serious injury of death in AFL to stop the forcing of players to get jabbed.

If they're not taking kids dying seriously, why would they take AFL players having cardiac events or deaths seriously?

Her death has been reported to the Coroner and all I've said is from the TGA DAEN report of dying after taking the Moderna jab and the letter from the Senator saying the same.

While I see your point that the TGA haven't yet admitted taking the Moderna jab was the cause of her death, as they haven't for almost all 656 deaths. Becasue safety testing of the products haven't been completed, post-market safety surveillance through DAENs and other countries passive vaccine adverse events tracking systems, should be enough evidence to pause the rollout for at least under 30 year olds, while long term safety studies are completed.

This has happened in the past with products that haven't completed safety testing and rushed to market. One recent example in 2009, when the vaccine for H1N1 was halted after only 53 deaths worldwide and before any were directly linked to the vaccine, which as I've posted can take years in Court to prove.

 

[Gruffles]

You've been saying non peer reviewed RCT research, published early in preprints, shouldn't be looked at or considered to be facts, but COVID vaccine developers have published similar or less peer reviewed, randomised double blinded, placebo-controlled clinical trials.

I never said they shouldn't be looked at, but they absolutely shouldn't be considered to be facts. Preprints can have their data changed at any time until they are submitted for publishing. That alone should cover why they shouldn't be considered as facts.

By all means, refer to them for interest, but don't take or represent the information as fact until they are published.

In much the same vein, we shouldn't take this girls tragic death as due to the vaccine until that is confirmed by a medical professional. Saying that the TGA haven't "admitted" that this is what caused her death is very poor wording. Feel free to speculate, but don't post it as fact.

 

[Drought Break]

Quick question - how many boosters and at what interval would it take for you to say enough is enough and not wish to have any more covid vaccines injected into you?

At a guess I would say the majority of the posters in all these covid threads would be happy with a dozen or whatever the government and big pharmaceutical companies advise

 

[BlueE]

I never said they did. There have been comments about Pfizer's tablet (Paxlovid) being repurposed Ivermectin though. I included Molnupiravir for interests sake and to show that all 3 are very different from each other.

As I mentioned in my original post, I also found it interesting that Merck are spending funds on developing Molnupiravir when many think they have a perfectly viable treatment in Ivermectin. And, as you pointed out in your post, developing the drug is not an easy task with the trialing attached to it, and therefore these funds that they are spending are likely to be a significant amount.

Merck patent on IVM expired, so they make nothing from it's use. This is why other manufacturers are allowed to produce it and can make it cheaply.

Interestly, they pre sold Molnupirvir for billions to many countries, then in a magnanimous gesture gave the formula for third world countries to produce cheaply for their use. However, India did it's own trials on the drug which they had to halt for safety reasons.

 

[Drought Break]

Coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccine: Options, safety, and how to get it

COVID-19 vaccines help prevent illness, particularly in vulnerable groups. Read about recommendations, how to get a vaccine, and vaccine safety.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

Interesting read.