Carlton player Liam Jones refusing vax - Update: Jones retires from AFL

[kingswood71]

Tell me which other vaccines require 3 shots in 6 months followed by another shot every 6 months for a to be determined time period that is part of our national vaccine schedule that has no long term studies and uses a new method of delivery (MRNA).

Do you understand what mRNA does?
What would be less risk, a small bit of RNA or the whole viral genome??
If mRNA turns out to be bad in terms of causing any long terms issues, then basic science would dictate that exposure to the whole genome would likely be much worse.....

 

[Gruffles]

Especially if these awesome vaccines are actually doing what they are supposed to do (stop virus transmission).

You've said this before and I'm sure we've then discussed it. The vaccines aren't designed to "stop virus transmission", they're designed to stimulate a person's immune system to build a protection to the virus to reduce the risk of serious illness if infected.

Do you think you can shift your posting to reflect this in the future rather than continually posting this incorrect statement?

 

[JackSam]

This thread should be ended. Just rants about vaccination.
The governing bodies stance is clear.
Also note that mod ranting personal thoughts about vaccination. Irrelevant.
The thread was about Liam Jones

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Liam Jones

Age

34

Ht

199cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.4

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

134.5

2star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.1

3star

HB

1.4

1star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.4

2star

MG

116.3

2star

D

9.4

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

decision.
In news report today he has reaffirmed that stance. His option.
The result will be Liam placed on inactive list and both Liam and Carlton move on.
Pretty simple really.

 

[dopefish]

what I’m debating is the “ benefits “ of getting young people vaccinated as opposed to the risk

One of the benefits is that you get to save lives. Shouldn't that be enough?

 

[BlueE]

Couple of questions:
How do you know that its "without evidence of autopsies for even a small number of cases"??.
Given the law states quite clearly that you cant write a death cert unless the cause is known and that unexpected or unexplained deaths have to be reported, If there is any doubt, it is referred to the coroner.
"However they still ignore the other 87 cases and 3 deaths from the same condition, becasue they didn't get expert advice for those cases". Literally ANY person presenting after an AZ dose with symptoms of TTS would get thoroughly investigated. You dont need to be an expert to do this. Its blood tests and CT/MRI. What "experts" are you saying should review the cases?? Any person who is admitted after AZ with TTS like symptoms would be reviewed by neuro and hematology.....
"1500 reports and 26 deaths of thrombosis or deep vein thrombosis, and another 1162 reports and 36 deaths with increased D dimer levels". What is the incidence of thromboembolism in Australia?

I wasn't talking about TTS which they accept, but the 87 reports and three other deaths from ITP, that didn't get expert assessment and accepted as "likely to be vaccine related". Very similar to other conditions I mentioned, also not linked.

The TGA committed to monitoring safety signals including data from other countries and even press reports, but not ordering autopsies even in small samples from different conditions from their own data.

My comparison was adverse events and deaths from deep vein thrombosis, thrombosis and deaths with increased D dimer levels, that occured after being vaccinated as reported in DAEN over the last 50 years.

You want to compare with the normal incidence of thromboembolism is in Australia?

How does this compare to 2700 reports and 62 deaths in seven months (including reports and deaths with increased D dimer levels) after one or two COVID vaccine injections?

From the last 50 years in the UK, with a population average of three times Australia, after using the contraceptive pill (300 doses a year), there were an average 10 deaths per year, so I'd expect three in Australia.

TGA safety report 11/11/21.

 

[BlueE]

One of the benefits is that you get to save lives. Shouldn't that be enough?

Doesn't save young people's lives, with only the seriously ill with conditions like leukemia, cystic fibrosis or morbidly obese shown to be at any risk.

Trade off is there are serious heart inflammation adverse events seen at many times higher the expected rate, especially for young men under 30 after the second dose.

 

[BlueE]

Whats the background incidence of myocarditis, especially in under 18 year old males?
Whats the incidence of myocarditis in covid infections?

These were hundreds of times more than expected for young men after the second dose, as shown in a presentation to the FDA at he start of June, 2021.

Many times higher incidence than in COVID infections, especially for the under 30 or under 24 males cohort that had almost zero risk unless they had serious other conditions as above.

 

[Sub_Zero]

Doesn't save young people's lives, with only the seriously ill with conditions like leukemia, cystic fibrosis or morbidly obese shown to be at any risk.

Trade off is there are serious heart inflammation adverse events seen at many times higher the expected rate, especially for young men under 30 after the second dose.

That's why I got the AZ

 

[kingswood71]

These were hundreds of times more than expected for young men after the second dose, as shown in a presentation to the FDA at he start of June, 2021.

Many times higher incidence than in COVID infections, especially for the under 30 or under 24 males cohort that had almost zero risk unless they had serious other conditions as above.

"Hundreds of times" ???

"Myocarditis (or pericarditis or myopericarditis) from primary COVID19 infection occurred at a rate as high as 450 per million in young males. Young males infected with the virus are up 6 times more likely to develop myocarditis as those who have received the vaccine"

Risk of Myocarditis from COVID-19 Infection in People Under Age 20: A Population-Based Analysis

Background There have been recent reports of myocarditis (including myocarditis, pericarditis or myopericarditis) as a side-effect of mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines, particularly in young males. Less information is available regarding the risk of myocarditis from COVID-19 infection itself. Such...

www.medrxiv.org

 

[dopefish]

Doesn't save young people's lives, with only the seriously ill with conditions like leukemia, cystic fibrosis or morbidly obese shown to be at any risk.

So their lives don't matter? By the way, young people can have any of those conditions too.

Trade off is there are serious heart inflammation adverse events seen at many times higher the expected rate, especially for young men under 30 after the second dose.

Even if you could prove that rate is higher than the rate of adverse events for young people contracting covid, they could just use one of the vaccines that don't have those risks.

 

[kingswood71]

You want to compare with the normal incidence of thromboembolism is in Australia?
How does this compare to 2700 reports and 62 deaths in seven months (including reports and deaths with increased D dimer levels) after one or two COVID vaccine injections

yes i do...Thats why I asked what the incidence of thromboembolism is in Australia. What is it?
I can guarantee that its more that 2700....And the deaths are way more than 62.....
You keep saying "increased D-dimer levels"....Thats not a diagnosis. A D-dimer can be elevated in many things. Its a non-specific test for clotting and can be raised in cancer, liver disease, pregnancy....

 

[kingswood71]

From the last 50 years in the UK, with a population average of three times Australia, after using the contraceptive pill (300 doses a year), there were an average 10 deaths per year, so I'd expect three in Australia.

I have no idea what you mean here and how this related to VTE events? Except that I am thinking you looked at how many people died from VTE related to the OCP?
You know people who dont take the pill can gets VTE yeah?
The UK data shows that "Over the 3-year period of 2013–15, the average number of deaths from venous thromboembolism in England was 12 640 per annum. Using the raw NHS Outcomes Framework data and population statistics for England in 2018, we calculate a crude annual venous thromboembolism mortality rate of 21·7 per 100 000"

Pulmonary embolism mortality trends in the European region—too good to be true?

We commend Stefano Barco and colleagues1 on their landmark paper quantifying age-standardised pulmonary embolism mortality rates and trends in Europe. However, we caution that the findings might be overly optimistic. In England, deaths from venous thromboembolism within 90 days of a hospital...

www.thelancet.com

12640 is bigger than 10....

 

[My Tilly]

This doctor explains some possible long term effects of the vaccines (and the virus itself)

Feel free to laugh it off as nothing more than conspiracy theory fear mongering but this is going to ramp up in the coming months as more and more studies are done.

 

[Drought Break]

Do you mean Professor Peter Collignon?
If so, he isnt saying that at all...He is saying that we should wait and analyze the risk v benefits....
Which is what the TGA will do when they consider an extension into a variation of the provisional approval.

No, Professor Robert Booy, an infectious disease pediatrician from the Westmead childrens hospital. If anyone should be listened to hes a good start. Has been consistent with his advice since the start of the pandemic. here's a link (cue the jab at all costs crew that will debunk the link)

Kids and Covid: What's the real risk?

What are the real risks of Covid-19 in children, and when are children likely to be vaccinated against the virus? Here’s what you need to know

thewest.com.au

 

[kingswood71]

218 kids under 16 with Covid and myocarditis.
511 under 24 with covid and myocarditis.

Association Between COVID-19 and Myocarditis...

Viral infections are a common cause of myocarditis. Some studies have indicated an association between COVID-19 and myocarditis.

www.cdc.gov

 

[kingswood71]

No, Professor Robert Booy, an infectious disease pediatrician from the Westmead childrens hospital. If anyone should be listened to hes a good start. Has been consistent with his advice since the start of the pandemic. here's a link (cue the jab at all costs crew that will debunk the link)

Kids and Covid: What's the real risk?

What are the real risks of Covid-19 in children, and when are children likely to be vaccinated against the virus? Here’s what you need to know

thewest.com.au

No where in that does he say not to vaccinate kids....
Heres something he did say: "Professor Booy says vaccinating children does not make ‘nearly as big a difference as in older adults and the elderly’. But when considering the indirect benefits of vaccination, that changes.
‘The other benefits apart from preventing serious medical illness, include getting children back to school, namely education, socialisation, exercise, and mental health,’ he said.
‘Once you factor in all those elements, you get an argument in favour of child vaccination.
‘However, it is really important not to act until we have an understanding of the experience in the real world of vaccination from other countries.’"

newsGP - Will GPs be vaccinating five-year-olds against COVID by year’s end?

Preliminary results among children under 12 show promise, but larger trials will likely be needed to confirm that the benefits outweigh the risks.

www1.racgp.org.au

I 100% agree with his last line and that seems to be the approach Australia will take.....

 

[Drought Break]

No where in that does he say not to vaccinate kids....
Heres something he did say: "Professor Booy says vaccinating children does not make ‘nearly as big a difference as in older adults and the elderly’. But when considering the indirect benefits of vaccination, that changes.
‘The other benefits apart from preventing serious medical illness, include getting children back to school, namely education, socialisation, exercise, and mental health,’ he said.
‘Once you factor in all those elements, you get an argument in favour of child vaccination.
‘However, it is really important not to act until we have an understanding of the experience in the real world of vaccination from other countries.’"

newsGP - Will GPs be vaccinating five-year-olds against COVID by year’s end?

Preliminary results among children under 12 show promise, but larger trials will likely be needed to confirm that the benefits outweigh the risks.

www1.racgp.org.au

I 100% agree with his last line and that seems to be the approach Australia will take.....

lets hope so.

 

[kingswood71]

lets hope so.

Any decision by the TGA will be evidenced based and balanced against risks v benefits....

 

[kingswood71]

This doctor explains some possible long term effects of the vaccines (and the virus itself)

Feel free to laugh it off as nothing more than conspiracy theory fear mongering but this is going to ramp up in the coming months as more and more studies are done.

I read the Swedish study. Entry into DNA would not surprise me as Cov 1 did that too.
Interestingly they conclude "This suggests that the use of antigenic epitopes of the spike as a SARS–CoV–2 vaccine might be safer and more efficacious than the full–length spike. Taken together, we identified one of the potentially important mechanisms of SARS–CoV–2 suppression of the host adaptive immune machinery. Furthermore, our findings also imply a potential side effect of the full–length spike–based vaccine".
We better hope that Sars-CoV-2 isnt some great viral oncogene!!!
That been said, its more likely that the full viral genome could be oncogenic than one bit of the spike protein. I will take my chance on the small bit of mRNA been not oncogenic, rather than on the full compliment of genes!

 

[My Tilly]

I will take my chance on the small bit of mRNA been not oncogenic, rather than on the full compliment of genes!

You are fully vaxxed and likely have a booster so of course you will say this

I am surprised that video has not yet been pulled from YouTube. How dare doctors talk about the science behind the vaccines.

 

[Heisenberg_]

This doctor explains some possible long term effects of the vaccines (and the virus itself)

Feel free to laugh it off as nothing more than conspiracy theory fear mongering but this is going to ramp up in the coming months as more and more studies are done.

One differing opinion that differs to what basically every expert agrees on.
Do you know what confirmation bias means?

 

[My Tilly]

Do you know what confirmation bias means?

Basically the same category you lot in here fall into?

The fact some doctors were ridiculed for even mentioning DNA damage the moment vaccines were being created . . . fast forward to today and honest conversation about the topic is accepted and not removed by the powers to be.

 

[Heisenberg_]

Basically the same category you lot in here fall into?

The fact some doctors were ridiculed for even mentioning DNA damage the moment vaccines were being created . . . fast forward to today and honest conversation about the topic is accepted and not removed by the powers to be.

No it’s a little different when you cherry pick the less then 1% who back up your opinion

 

[kingswood71]

You are fully vaxxed and likely have a booster so of course you will say this

I am surprised that video has not yet been pulled from YouTube. How dare doctors talk about the science behind the vaccines.

Full length spike vaccines.

 

[My Tilly]

No it’s a little different when you cherry pick the less then 1% who back up your opinion

Perhaps now with further scientific research being explored on the matter will those percentages begin shifting.
You know, the same 'experts' who have shifted the goal posts on a few covid truths the longer this pandemic goes on.