Carlton player Liam Jones refusing vax - Update: Jones retires from AFL

[kingswood71]

Yes, I'm aware of the primary function.

What does a virus want to do and how does it do it ? Clearly a rhetorical question. The virus wants to survive and it does so by replication and transmission.

It's silly to suggest vaccines aren't intended to prevent this.

The whole concept of sterilizing immunity is largely wrong. No vaccine prevents infection in 100% of people 100% of the time.....The HPV vaccine would be the closest.

 

[Roby]

I wasn't talking about TTS which they accept, but the 87 reports and three other deaths from ITP, that didn't get expert assessment and accepted as "likely to be vaccine related". Very similar to other conditions I mentioned, also not linked.

The TGA committed to monitoring safety signals including data from other countries and even press reports, but not ordering autopsies even in small samples from different conditions from their own data.

My comparison was adverse events and deaths from deep vein thrombosis, thrombosis and deaths with increased D dimer levels, that occured after being vaccinated as reported in DAEN over the last 50 years.

You want to compare with the normal incidence of thromboembolism is in Australia?

How does this compare to 2700 reports and 62 deaths in seven months (including reports and deaths with increased D dimer levels) after one or two COVID vaccine injections?

From the last 50 years in the UK, with a population average of three times Australia, after using the contraceptive pill (300 doses a year), there were an average 10 deaths per year, so I'd expect three in Australia.

TGA safety report 11/11/21.

View attachment 1279203

What are you talking about?

 

[Roby]

Trade off is there are serious heart inflammation adverse events seen at many times higher the expected rate, especially for young men under 30 after the second dose.

This is not a fact. It's probably not true at all.

 

[kingswood71]

I'm still not confident this is not just noise in the data.

I've said this before in another thread but myocarditis is more commmon than what most people think it is. It's just that we are looking for the data and assume there is a link to it.

Although there have been studies done for half a decade, we are still along way from been confident to know what causes myocarditis, as in, why some people get it and some don't.

There was a link with myocarditis with the smallpox vaccine in military personell but there has been numerous studies that show myocarditis is probably more linked with excessive excercise after infections (viral or bacterial). It appears that without suffecient rest, the heart is not able to stop infection during cardiomyopathy and possibly causing myocardial infraction. It's possible to assume that over exertion can cause the outer layers of the heart to weaken and not able to stop an inflammation/cytokine storm. On the other hand vaccinated subjects/cohorts have shown to reduce symptoms and deaths despite excessive excercise and infection.

In other words there is no good reason not to be vaccinated if you are young and healthy. If you have a possible predisposition to myocarditis getting covid is going to be a serious issue in which the vaccine can either prevent or reduce substantially.

And we haven't even discussed the whole epidemiological and ethical debate that letting run a deadly and highly contagious disease amongst young people and then allowing it to mutate freely and often.

From the data I have examined, I am confident that there is a small increase beyond the background incidence. But, that needs to be considered against the larger incidence of myocarditis in actual covid infections.
Wait to people figure out that the Coxsackievirus virus cause myocarditis!!

 

[Roby]

I have no idea what you mean here and how this related to VTE events? Except that I am thinking you looked at how many people died from VTE related to the OCP?
You know people who dont take the pill can gets VTE yeah?
The UK data shows that "Over the 3-year period of 2013–15, the average number of deaths from venous thromboembolism in England was 12 640 per annum. Using the raw NHS Outcomes Framework data and population statistics for England in 2018, we calculate a crude annual venous thromboembolism mortality rate of 21·7 per 100 000"

Pulmonary embolism mortality trends in the European region—too good to be true?

We commend Stefano Barco and colleagues1 on their landmark paper quantifying age-standardised pulmonary embolism mortality rates and trends in Europe. However, we caution that the findings might be overly optimistic. In England, deaths from venous thromboembolism within 90 days of a hospital...

www.thelancet.com

12640 is bigger than 10....

I find it difficult to extrapulate what Blue is trying to say or what point his making in his posts. It's like you are replying to four different ideas and theory may or may not be linked to each other.

 

[Gruffles]

Coxsackievirus

Post reported for profanity

 

[Trav 20]

The whole concept of sterilizing immunity is largely wrong. No vaccine prevents infection in 100% of people 100% of the time.....The HPV vaccine would be the closest.

Very true.

And not all vaccines are created equally. Some are better than others.

Coronavirus vaccines have a history of poor efficacy and one of the issues that has always concerned scientists is antibody dependent enhancement (ADE), which first became a problem in the early 1960s (RSV).

My main concerns stem from the spike protein. It's not supposed to enter the nuclei, but does it ? How long does it stay in the vascular system ? I won't list all of the potential issues, but the lack of long-term data is problematic to me, but seemingly not to most. And supposedly my concerns are worthy of derision.

 

[LilJoeyMifsud]

What's his good reason?

If there's a health issue that prevents him from taking the vaccine, he can get an exemption.

Otherwise, if it's just that he's read a few Facebook posts and is scared of the vaccine, he's just a science denier.

And considering how tiny an inconvenience it is to get the vaccine, I think that's pathetic.

Well my reason is that me and my wife lost an unborn baby due to a vaccine my wife took whilst pregnant. That’s a real life experience. So don’t be so quick to judge others perhaps. Every person has their own story and conclusions about the vaccine, which is their right to do so.

 

[LilJoeyMifsud]

Don't even bother arguing with the anti-vax people, they've got the collective IQ of a shoe. If it were up to me, the people choosing not to be vaccinated would be excluded from society (besides necessities) permanently. Society would only improve by locking out this group of illogical simpletons.

As for the Carlton player, more than happy for their contract to be torn up if they remain unvaccinated, no matter who it is.

Lucky you are not in charge then. What an idiotic thing to say. Reeks of a pompous virtue signaler who is searching for recognition.

 

[Roby]

I read the Swedish study. Entry into DNA would not surprise me as Cov 1 did that too.
Interestingly they conclude "This suggests that the use of antigenic epitopes of the spike as a SARS–CoV–2 vaccine might be safer and more efficacious than the full–length spike. Taken together, we identified one of the potentially important mechanisms of SARS–CoV–2 suppression of the host adaptive immune machinery. Furthermore, our findings also imply a potential side effect of the full–length spike–based vaccine".
We better hope that Sars-CoV-2 isnt some great viral oncogene!!!
That been said, its more likely that the full viral genome could be oncogenic than one bit of the spike protein. I will take my chance on the small bit of mRNA been not oncogenic, rather than on the full compliment of genes!

This also does not taken into account the robustness of the protein. Without using a full length portien we would decrease vaccine efficacy substanially (in fact we wouldn't even bother with using a MRNA vaccine at all right now). I'm not necessarily disagreeing with the video's assumption but until the tech gets better there is no other option right now.

 

[Roby]

From the data I have examined, I am confident that there is a small increase beyond the background incidence. But, that needs to be considered against the larger incidence of myocarditis in actual covid infections.
Wait to people figure out that the Coxsackievirus virus cause myocarditis!!

Prevention Bio Inc. is a company that just recently created a vaccine for CVB (Coxsackievirus) and is doing trials.

 

[Gruffles]

And supposedly my concerns are worthy of derision.

I haven't seen any replies to your posts here being deriding... But it's highly possible I've missed that along the way.

There are absolutely some people here that immediately reply to a post raising concerns by jumping in with an 'anti-vaxxer' riddled reply (which is generally not helpful). But, anyone who has raised anything in a respectful and genuine way tends to get respectful, genuine replies. Much like our conversation.

Raising questions is exactly what this forum should be about. The way those questions are raised or points posted tends to define how a conversation is going to go, though (not saying this is you).

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Doesnt make a difference to anyone else if hes vaccinated or not.
Its only the power hungry gov that are forcing people to get it or lose their jobs.
The snowflakes in this country have let sh*t go way too far.
Lets see how this magic vax goes against the new strain out of euro winter.
Daddy dan already getting his bill ready for another lockdown.
But when it happens most people will be all good with it, just as long as they ‘do their part.’ Pathetic.

What's pathetic is your refusal to accept reality.

This is a pandemic. Up until now, most of us here have lived a pretty charmed life compared to previous generations. No wars. No decade long financial crises. We've had it easy. The real snowflakes are the ones that are whinging about an inconvience for a very short periods of their lives.
Unfortunately some of these self centered snowflakes have taken this virus home to their parents and killed them. All because it's ALL TOO HARD!
One day you'll proudly be able to tell your grandkids about the day you stood up to Dictator Dan. Just make sure they're not old enough to see through your bullsh1t and see you for the real coward you are!

 

[kingswood71]

Very true.

And not all vaccines are created equally. Some are better than others.

Coronavirus vaccines have a history of poor efficacy and one of the issues that has always concerned scientists is antibody dependent enhancement (ADE), which first became a problem in the early 1960s (RSV).

My main concerns stem from the spike protein. It's not supposed to enter the nuclei, but does it ? How long does it stay in the vascular system ? I won't list all of the potential issues, but the lack of long-term data is problematic to me, but seemingly not to most. And supposedly my concerns are worthy of derision.

Form my understanding of coronaviruses, including Sars-cov-1, the N protein possibly entered the nucleus.
The good thing I guess is that 18 years or so later, we arent seeing a rise in solid or blood cancers from people who had SARS and survived.

 

[kingswood71]

I find it difficult to extrapulate what Blue is trying to say or what point his making in his posts. It's like you are replying to four different ideas and theory may or may not be linked to each other.

I have tried

 

[V23]

Lucky you are not in charge then. What an idiotic thing to say. Reeks of a pompous virtue signaler who is searching for recognition.

If people don't want to contribute to the safety and wellbeing of society/the community, why should they be allowed to participate in it? If you don't care about everyone else, why should I care about you?

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

You know you dont have to have a booster right?
2 doses still offers excellent protection against bad outcomes...

Boosters will become mandatory just wait. France already done it, the rest will follow.

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

You've said this before and I'm sure we've then discussed it. The vaccines aren't designed to "stop virus transmission", they're designed to stimulate a person's immune system to build a protection to the virus to reduce the risk of serious illness if infected.

Do you think you can shift your posting to reflect this in the future rather than continually posting this incorrect statement?

If they aren't designed to stop viral transmission why the **** are all the robots calling the unvaxxed selfish for endangering others? Makes no sense. Goal posts keep moving lol a vaccine that doesn't stop transmission is not a vaccine

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

Do you understand what mRNA does?
What would be less risk, a small bit of RNA or the whole viral genome??
If mRNA turns out to be bad in terms of causing any long terms issues, then basic science would dictate that exposure to the whole genome would likely be much worse.....

Complete bs.

 

[kingswood71]

Complete bs.

Right....so explain how a small fragment of the S protein could possibly be worse than the whole S protein and all the other bits??
You understand that if you get covid, the virus enters the cells? All of it??

 

[Gruffles]

If they aren't designed to stop viral transmission why the fu** are all the robots calling the unvaxxed selfish for endangering others? Makes no sense. Goal posts keep moving lol a vaccine that doesn't stop transmission is not a vaccine

The goal posts for the definition of a vaccine in relation to transmission have not moved at all.

If the defining trait of a vaccine is that it stops transmission then we are yet to create a vaccine, as even the most effective ones out there don't stop the virus getting into your body, which would be transmission from someone/something to the vaccinated person. It just seems that people are struggling to get their heads around what a vaccine's purpose is, and what is a possible consequence of it's purpose.

And just to clarify, I have never once called an unvaccinated person 'selfish'.

 

[theyellowsash]

This is not a fact. It's probably not true at all.

i already posted a study showing that its not. but these antivaxxers do like their alternative facts.

 

[Fabab]

Most of this crap should be on the virus board,not only do we have footy experts in here we have nobel prize winning scientists ffs.

 

[bing181]

Boosters will become mandatory just wait. France already done it, the rest will follow.

I live in France. You're wrong. First of all, outside of some professions, Covid vaccines are not/never mandatory.

What is happening is that for over 65's, boosters are becoming part of the health pass scheme, which is what you use as proof of vaccination when it's required. This will kick in from Dec 15 depending on eligibility (6 months after second dose). Note that you don't need a vaccination to have a health pass, a recent negative test will do.

Of course, you could have checked this yourself. But you didn't.

 

[Gruffles]

Most of this crap should be on the virus board,not only do we have footy experts in here we have nobel prize winning scientists ffs.

You seem to be a little disorientated... you are on the "virus" board.