Case study in handling adversity: Crows v Hawks

[sydney_crow]

Obviously both the Crows and the Hawks are travelling terribly ATM but I thought it was interesting over the weekend that both Dunstall and Brereton were quite prepared to come out and give the team an almighty bake (indeed naming specific players). Although they're not coaches per se both are 'inside the tent' and so you would guess that their comments were club sanctioned in some way.

Regardless I don't see anyone from Crows officialdom putting similar heat on our playing group (pray to God that it is at least happening behind closed doors).

Perhaps different cultures/philosophies at the clubs but I reckon there is a time and a place for this public scrutiny (Malcolm Blight and David Pittman say hello) but it doesn't seem to be the Crows style.

 

[Allefgib]

Will be interesting to see how both clubs travel for the rest of this year and into next with how their respective and similar situations are managed.

At the moment I would prefer more of the Hawks approach. I could be proven wrong that our more politically correct and arguably professional approach has a far better outcome. I really hope I am to be honest but this year will certainly test it and show if there needs to be more priority at our club on mixing the emotions and creativity with the system and procedures.

 

[SydCrow]

it certainly would be more entertaining having Jeff as President

 

[Malibu#27]

Will be interesting to see how both clubs travel for the rest of this year and into next with how their respective and similar situations are managed.

At the moment I would prefer more of the Hawks approach. I could be proven wrong that our more politically correct and arguably professional approach has a far better outcome. I really hope I am to be honest but this year will certainly test it and show if there needs to be more priority at our club on mixing the emotions and creativity with the system and procedures.

Not sure your situation is the same as Hawthorns, given this post on their board:
Hawthorns situation

The issues at the Hawthorn Football Club surround the fact that the players have no faith in Alistair Clarkson's game plan and are sick of our game style which is against their instinctive nature.

Senior players have questioned the coach, with one senior player and Clarkson even having to be separated at one point before an altercation became physical. In the view of some Clarkson is dictatorial in his approach and inflexible when change is called for.

A number of people on this board (myself included) in the know have tiptoed around this issue for a couple of weeks now believing it is better kept in house. I completely understand that point of view. However, in light of our season being firmly down the toilet now, it is high time that the real issues came out. The fans and members deserve and have every right to know what is going on. I expect to cop an amount of criticism for this thread but frankly I couldn't care less. If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend that everything will be fine then that is your prerogative. When I pay membership dues, and by extension contribute to salaries I expect and demand some accountability. At the moment there is no accountability at the Hawthorn Football Club and that is an indictment on the board, the football department and the playing list.

I will not go any further by naming the players involved.

 

[icrow32]

it certainly would be more entertaining having Jeff as President

Well our president is a soft SANFL puppet with a non existent profile, most crows supporters wouldn't even know his name.

 

[Dangercles]

I don't think it would do any good having an official do a Hawthorn, 0-6 speaks for itself. Actions speak louder than words.

 

[*PAF]

Not sure your situation is the same as Hawthorns, given this post on their board:
Hawthorns situation

Could it also be young players getting a big head thanks to having had so much success so soon without enough older players around to keep a lid on it?

 

[King Elvis]

Hawks and their issues are very diffferent to us and ours; as Malibu posted.

Saying that - last year they were in a similar position to us now; and failure to address it properly might have caused their current plight - so it'd pay to take note.

 

[Tex200]

Not comparing apples with apples....Hawthorn are an old fashioned football club. AFC is a corporation. 2 different entities.

There is also the not insignificant matter of flag in 2008.

 

[SydCrow]

The issues at the Hawthorn Football Club surround the fact that the players have no faith in Alistair Clarkson's game plan and are sick of our game style which is against their instinctive nature.

Senior players have questioned the coach, with one senior player and Clarkson even having to be separated at one point before an altercation became physical. In the view of some Clarkson is dictatorial in his approach and inflexible when change is called for.

A number of people on this board (myself included) in the know have tiptoed around this issue for a couple of weeks now believing it is better kept in house. I completely understand that point of view. However, in light of our season being firmly down the toilet now, it is high time that the real issues came out. The fans and members deserve and have every right to know what is going on.

How is this different to our situation?

 

[Tex200]

How is this different to our situation?

Well the OP dealt with the public face of each club and how they are both dealing with high expectation and low performance.

The post imported from Hawthorn while interesting is a little off track relating to internal rumblings.

Personally I agree with the OP...even Port has Francou who has at times has given them fearful sprays in the media over commitment. What we get from AFC itself, current and past players is all pretty bland.

 

[SydCrow]

here is what Jeff has to say

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a.../story-e6frf9jf-1225861565080?from=public_rss

HAWTHORN president Jeff Kennett has apologised for the club's "dismal" form and blasted the Hawk players for lacking "skills, endeavour and simple ticker".
Kennett said after entering the season with high hopes and some decent efforts in the first three rounds, the Hawks' performances of the past three weeks were unacceptable.
"Reputations and goodwill have been totally used up. Everyone is on notice. No excuses accepted," Kennett said on the club website of a side that won the premiership just 18 months ago.
"Having said that, we will stick together to address the issues.
"The coach has put the players on notice, I have done the same with the coaches, and I expect you, the members, to do the same of me.
"Are we good enough to finish the year with our heads held high? I believe so. But a lot has to change as of now."

 

[Crow-mo]

Hawks and their issues are very diffferent to us and ours; as Malibu posted.

why are they different?

both play the same game style.
both have "issues" with executing an intricate gameplan.
both have lost players to injury (them much more than us)
both have a coach that refuses to change
Both have speculative rumours about player unrest.

the big differences are that the Hawks have some close losses to good teams, and there is that matter of a recent flag.

 

[Crow-mo]

I *heart* Jeff.

 

[cmndstab]

We've had several ex-players and ex-coaches come and dump on our current coaching panel, our gameplan and our players.

What we haven't had is our president coming out and doing it, and frankly, I'm not convinced it's a bad thing. Kennett speaks with passion, but he also sounds like a complete moron when he does it, and I can't imagine it breeds any kind of positive environment in the club.

It's useful if the club needs a jolt to wake it back up, but I don't think we need a jolt at the moment. We're well aware that what we are doing is not even close to good enough. What we need is to put steps into place to fix it, not to have key club figureheads spew up emotional rants in the public domain.

 

[marvin]

Kennett yesterday:

"The coach has put the players on notice, I have done the same with the coaches".​

Kennett today:

"I tell you what, the coach is as absolutely safe as I am," Kennett told the Herald Sun.

"And you know how safe that is because I am there until the end of next year and his contract says he is there until the end of next year.​

For all our faults and woes at the moment, I'm glad our president isn't running around like a loose cannon firing things up and then haveing to back down. That's one thing the Crows are doing right, comparatively.

 

[Alex99]

For all our faults and woes at the moment, I'm glad our president isn't running around like a loose cannon firing things up and then haveing to back down. That's one thing the Crows are doing right, comparatively.

We don’t have a president. We have a chairman in Rob Chapman and a CEO in Steven Trigg and 6 directors. We are a monarchy to the SANFL, not a republic like the 10 Victorian clubs.

 

[Cap]

Not comparing apples with apples....Hawthorn are an old fashioned football club. AFC is a corporation. 2 different entities.

There is also the not insignificant matter of flag in 2008.

you seriously are a ********

I don't think i'll even bother reading the rest of this thread in case I come across another one of your posts.

 

[tribey]

Personally I agree with the OP...even Port has Francou who has at times has given them fearful sprays in the media over commitment. What we get from AFC itself, current and past players is all pretty bland.

Just on this, it's a fair point.

Francou will stick the knife into anyone at the club without fear or favour whenever he sees fit - he even sided with Roger James' controversial comments that the emphasis on the history and battles with Collingwood over Heritage Round should be scrapped in favour of a clean break, etc.

Flipside is 5AA (poor example I know, but hey), ex-players like McDermott and Rowe, an ex-coach in Cornes and ubersympathisers like Wildy tend to smash and abuse callers whenever they dare to criticise individual players or Craig, let alone editorialise in any meaningful way beyond "ah well, something's gone wrong, but let's get behind 'em!"

Surely there is room for robust critical debate without a suit like Trigg coming out and wielding his big stick - and it's admittedly massive - at the media and supporters alike?

 

[Tex200]

you seriously are a ********

I don't think i'll even bother reading the rest of this thread in case I come across another one of your posts.

Instead of throwing spineless insults from behind the safety of your computer screen perhaps you could debate the issue intelligently. You could start by referring to the respective governance structures

 

[Cap]

Instead of throwing spineless insults from behind the safety of your computer screen perhaps you could debate the issue intelligently. You could start by referring to the respective governance structures

yes because relevant goverance structures have a crap load to do with what the OP was on about.

yours was a simple troll post...I thought I gave you the response you would have been looking for

 

[Tex200]

yes because relevant goverance structures have a crap load to do with what the OP was on about.

yours was a simple troll post...I thought I gave you the response you would have been looking for

Not a troll post at all. My intention was to highlight the fact that, in accordance with its corporate structure and image AFC are never going to respond like Hawthorn...who are an old fashioned club. One structure is capable of destablisation and so public outcry and emotion is more of a weapon. The other, thankfully, is immune to that kind of destablisation and so generally speaking responses are more reasoned. Therefore the 2 cannot be compared.

Having said that I stand by by comment that it would not hurt to have a less compliant media.

 

[Vader]

yes because relevant goverance structures have a crap load to do with what the OP was on about.

yours was a simple troll post...I thought I gave you the response you would have been looking for

Hawthorn's 2008 flag is definitely relevant when it comes to differentiating their position from our own. The corporate structure of the two clubs is completely irrelevant and was a piece of mischievous misdirection at best.

 

[Tex200]

Hawthorn's 2008 flag is definitely relevant when it comes to differentiating their position from our own. The corporate structure of the two clubs is completely irrelevant and was a piece of mischievous misdirection at best.

With respect I disagree.

I stand corrected but I believe that Hawthorn operate on an old footy club structure whereby members can band together and effectively throw out an incumbent board. That being the case 2 things can happen when things are going badly

1. The President aka Kennett feels the need to come out and support the baying mob by first apologising and then criticising his team all the while protecting his own position.

2. Ex players or officials who may be self interested (ie wanting to cause a bit of a revolt or at least put the board under pressure) make public comment to whip the members into a frenzy.

With the AFC structure this is not possible and so those who would seek to destabilise have no traction. Nor would the CEO or Chairman, out of self interest, feel the need to publicly admonish the club to prove to the mob he is doing something.

Therefore the 2 forms of governance are relevant in terms of how such a time is dealt with by the 2 clubs. It would be more accurate to compare us with say WCE.

 

[Vader]

It takes a LOT to throw out the board of a club.

Normally, only about 1/2 to 1/3 of the board members are up for election each year at the AGM. To replace the entire board, an Extraordinary General Meeting (EGM) must be called - this usually requires a petition to be signed by a large percentage (usually >30%) of the club's members.

EGMs do get called, but usually only 3 or 4 per decade, across the entire league.