Centre Half Back

[Jimmae]

Originally posted by The Old Dark Navy's
Taking a knee in the jatz crackers can do that do you I understand.

Hips to the head and point posts in the jats can't be healthy.

I swear to God it sounded like a massive pop when he hit the post. Ahh well, in the end, better than losing a leg.

But that Geelong **** (his name eludes me at the moment) will get what he deserves and more sometime this season... hopefully against us.

By that I mean the towelling down someone of his unformidable talent deserves.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Darren Milburn is the one you have your sights set on.

As for the injuries, SOS ran into the goal post against Hawthorn in round 2, 2001 and copped the knee in the groin in Round 4 against Adelaide with Tyson Stenglein doing the honours in a marking contest. perhaps that is why Lance squared up with Stenglein on another occasion? Braddles took SOS to the hospital and he had swelled up so much that he feared he was losing his 'stalk'!

 

[Jimmae]

Originally posted by The Old Dark Navy's
Darren Milburn is the one you have your sights set on.

As for the injuries, SOS ran into the goal post against Hawthorn in round 2, 2001 and copped the knee in the groin in Round 4 against Adelaide with Tyson Stenglein doing the honours in a marking contest. perhaps that is why Lance squared up with Stenglein on another occasion? Braddles took SOS to the hospital and he had swelled up so much that he feared he was losing his 'stalk'!

Talk about taking the sauce out of SOS...

omg...

*hangs his head in shame, but continues to laugh*

 

[SurreyBlue]

Shiek, Thornton will take the oppositions best forward. He has shown to be able to succeed here for the past year. He is 192cm and will play CHB or FB as required.

Livingston, Norman or Prendergast must stand up and take the other two key position players. I believe Livingston to also be 192cm with Prendergast at 195cm and Norman at 191cm.

Silvagni was 194cm and Sexton was 191cm. Height is not the issue.

Talant and Physicality is.

I am holding everything crossed that Livingston shows us his talants in 2004.

 

[koutawalker]

Livo or Prenda must stand up. If they don't Whitnall will probably play CHB and this will limit our scoring opportunities. Normans coming up for his 2nd season so i think he should be given a bit more time. Sporn and Wiggo are another 2 who really need to stand up.

Who do you think should be given a crack at CHB in the Wizard Cup? I hope it's Livo.

 

[HBF]

KoutaWalker, did you see the game against St.Kilda last year at Telstra Dome? Lance played on Riewoldt and got a fair towelling up.

If Lance plays at CHB this year, we have some major problems. His pace will not allow him to keep up with any CHF in the league and we lose a very attacking option on the forward line.

We've tried Prenda in defence before and it hasn't worked. He simply doesn't have the "presence" down there. We need to use what he is good at - endurance. If he could adapt his game to a run-with type player, he would be quite effective.

Norman is still to inexperienced to hold down CHB. The guy has played for one year, and we're asking him to play on some of the best players in the game. Can you imagine him playing on someone like a Tarrant - OUCH!!

As for Livingston, he just hasn't come on how we would have liked. Along with Franchina, possibly the luckiest to still be at the club. However, saying that, i'd like to see what he can do down forward.

One other possibility to our problem in defence would be Digby Morrell, although I haven't seen him enough to make an informed decision.

 

[DIG]

Originally posted by HugeBluesFan

One other possibility to our problem in defence would be Digby Morrell, although I haven't seen him enough to make an informed decision.

DIG!!

He'll surprise quite a few this chap. Will play up forward mainly but who knows - Pagan may try him in defence at some stage.

 

[koutawalker]

Originally posted by HugeBluesFan
KoutaWalker, did you see the game against St.Kilda last year at Telstra Dome? Lance played on Riewoldt and got a fair towelling up.

I can't really remember it that well. Did Big Red play CHF or CHB?

 

[coffee man]

CHB

Livo WILL hold his own as a KPP this year. I think that he is already underrated and has shown us that he can play its just that we have expected more from a no.4 pick.

Did anyone see the Port game at AAMI last year? Livo killed Chad Cornes (although let him get away in the first quarter) and he also made heaps of pack spoils. The boy can play!! He just needs game time

 

[LordLucifer]

Originally posted by SurreyBlue
Height is not the issue.

Talant and Physicality is.

Ease on there Surrey, height is a very important issue. If it wasn't considered so strategic, then we could have a half-back line of Kenna, Wiggins & Sporn.

We have to get BIG TALL guys to line-up on the big tall forwards in the competition, otherwise they'll run riot. Can you imagine playing Franchina on Rocca or Brown ??

 

[biglebowski]

They had our last win on Fox yesterday (vs Richmond round 12).

Interesting to note some of the key elements of that game ....

Thornton played well on Richo. There's been a lot of talk about height deficiencies - he gave buckets of it away but played a very smart game (admittedly he wasn't up against one of the brain surgeons of the comp) - for me he also has that 'octopus' quality.

Mick Martyn played CHB for most of it.

Lance was at CHF.

Fisher and Waite were brilliant considering their experience.

Franchina, Kouta and Campo played well.

Murph, Allan and Fletcher all impressed - Sheeds must have been watching the game and missed the rest of the season.

 

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by TheSheik
Can you imagine playing Franchina on Rocca or Brown ??

Except that Franchina isn't what you call talented, or physical either.

 

[Chemical]

Re: CHB

Originally posted by coffee man
Livo WILL hold his own as a KPP this year. I think that he is already underrated and has shown us that he can play its just that we have expected more from a no.4 pick.

Did anyone see the Port game at AAMI last year? Livo killed Chad Cornes (although let him get away in the first quarter) and he also made heaps of pack spoils. The boy can play!! He just needs game time

i dont think livo has showed anything other than what else we could have got in the draft. last season to show that he can play well

 

[SurreyBlue]

Originally posted by TheSheik
Ease on there Surrey, height is a very important issue. If it wasn't considered so strategic, then we could have a half-back line of Kenna, Wiggins & Sporn.

We have to get BIG TALL guys to line-up on the big tall forwards in the competition, otherwise they'll run riot. Can you imagine playing Franchina on Rocca or Brown ??

Sheik....I'm not having a go at you just trying to explain that 1 to 3 cm, shouldn't make that much difference to the match up. Strength, Mobility and Reach though do.

 

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by SurreyBlue
Sheik....I'm not having a go at you just trying to explain that 1 to 3 cm, shouldn't make that much difference to the match up. Strength, Mobility and Reach though do.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

If you're only a few cms short, it doesn't matter to such an extent that the opposition player taller than you will kill you in the air. If you have long arms and/or a high vertical leap, then it should be no problem. Body strength is a bigger factor... the ability to scrag/fend off your opponent to mark the ball in front of you is another valuable asset. The ability to read the play as well as have enough talent to take a tough mark and dispose of the ball well is more important than only being a few cms shorter. Mobility for getting the spoil from fast leading opponents and escaping tackles from forwards.

Thronton, whilst being only a few cms shorter than your average CHF/FF has all these qualities that make him a good defender. Good enough so that he can spare a few cms... besides, isn't it when you reach the age of 22 that you stop growing taller?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Good points made.

Ian Prendergast is a good example of how there is more than just height and body shape to being a key position player. He has height, pace, stamina and is powerfully built BUT he does not have strength in one on one contests and is not a natural timer when spoiling or gaining position. For this reason, it is unlikely that he will make a decent fist of a key position for any length of time. SOS was not powerfully built or particularly fast but his strength, timing and closing speed at the exact moment the ball was reaching the contest was phenomenal and allowed him to have success at both ends of the ground.

Who would have loved to have seen what SOS could have done as a permanent full forward if we had have had the luxury of having another quality full back to take that role off him?

Anyway, the taller they are the slower they are generally and one of our assets with our defence and players like SOS and now Thornton is that they are more mobile and able to recover from the contest first and run the ball out of defence. There has to be a balance and mobile big men like Angwin do not grow on trees.

 

[LordLucifer]

Originally posted by SurreyBlue
Sheik....I'm not having a go at you just trying to explain that 1 to 3 cm, shouldn't make that much difference to the match up. Strength, Mobility and Reach though do.

Don't worry Surrey, I haven't taken offence at your comments.

If 1-3 cm isn't going to make much difference then tell me this. Would you prefer to have our key players taller than the opposition or that 1-3 cm shorter ???

 

[SurreyBlue]

Originally posted by TheSheik
Don't worry Surrey, I haven't taken offence at your comments.

If 1-3 cm isn't going to make much difference then tell me this. Would you prefer to have our key players taller than the opposition or that 1-3 cm shorter ???

Sheik, If they are more mobile, stronger and footy smart as well as 3cm taller? Ofcourse it's Yes.
But if none of the above was answered, NO.

 

[nightcrawler]

I know I'm weighing a little late here, but I think both of arguements are right to a certain extant. 1-3cm shouldn't make much difference if the defender is strong, mobile and footy smart.

BUT our guys have been giving away 5cm+ at times. To take the Thornton-Richo example, Thornton was giving away 7cms in that match-up. He may have acquitted himself well, but if Richmond had been a top four team rather than a bottom four team that match-up may have been punished. I also though Thornton got away with a lot of subtle holding that he probably won't get away with when he's a more established player.

I'm glad Norman (and Thornton) seem to have grown an extra couple of centimetres, hopefully he can really establish himself this season. He's too good for VFL, and we need him (and Livo) because we too often forget the possiblity of Thornton going down with injury.

It's great that we have o'Hailpin and Boyd on the list now. They may not make it, and they almost certainly won't be ready this season, but if they do then we will have a lot more options and flexibility down back. We certainly won't have to be playing Lance as a CHB. I think the Sheiks main complaint has been that for the last few seasons we haven't had ANY really tall backman being developed on the list at all.

I wouldn't say our backline setup is right yet (and won't be till Lance is back in the forward line where he belongs), but I'm a darn sight more happy about it now than I have been for a few seasons now, and I'm quiet curious to see how the lads will go this year round with better midfield support and that gorilla out of the way.

 

[NavyBlueBlood]

Watching the game yesterday against Geelong made me even more convinced who should play CHB for the Carlton Football Club in 2004.

Here me out and then give me your thoughts. Our backline at the moment is inexperienced, under-sized and lacks leadership with McKay gone. We really needed someone yesterday who could take a big pack mark, split up the play by taking players on (as Macka would) and also someone who could be the target for the kick outs. Don't get me wrong, I think Bowyer and Teaguey will be solid half back flankers, I am a big wrap for Thornton and Scotland does find plenty of the ball back there. But we need big tall strong man, the kind that Norman and Livingston just arent. Also Carlos will not play AFL this year, he is a few years away from CHB I think.

Therefore after weighing up all of the above, and havent witnessed him play there back in the late nineties to revive his career, I think the answer quite simply is Anthony Koutafides.
Do you guys remember when he held down that possie?
The reasons for this are as follows:
- leadership
- strength
- can take a big grab
- he is agile
- we don't really need him in the middle as much as last year and the year before bc Stevens and co. will take care of things in there..

Please please hear me Denis Pagan...

 

[Effes]

Depending on the opposition, play Whitnall down there as the jason cloke type CHB.......they both aren't athletic, but once loose Whitnall could have a real effect.