Politics Centrelink

[Power Raid]

Why should we cut corporate tax when it's becoming increasingly clear they don't pay it anyway?

not a bad idea but rather than give up on collecting tax off foreign entities (including individuals) or entities that shift profits offshore, we should increase the GST. This ensures we collect the tax and put Australian entities on the same footing.

Sadly though, those who would benefit the most from this policy would resist this positive change.

 

[RupieDupie]

yep, I hear what you are saying.

sadly councils have been infiltrated by property developers and constantly promote higher and higher density leading to high land prices and lower quality housing stock. State governments have also been too slow in introducing proper property taxes, that net off against Australian income tax, to deter buy and hold (not rent out) which is common by foreign investors.

The time to buy housing, the amount of debt, alternative investment options and income potential are all variables effecting decisions when to buy. Personally I don't think people should buy a home until the are in their 30s and preferably by paying cash but no more than a debt income ration of two. Different rules apply for investment properties.

Also unfortunately the government is dropping the ball (as usual), the remainder of the world is starting to crawl out of the shithole, created by the greed-spawned GFC. The UK just raised their interest rates for the first time in ~10 years, demonstrating that their economy is strengthening (the banks of course haven't passed on this increase to the people saving - shame they did not learn anything).

Meanwhile at home, and the Australian government is still crapping on about our robust economy, but the low interest rates demonstrate the truth of a weak economy - no one has money to spend.

Here's a few reasons why,

1) house prices - greed
2) bank interest rate increase independent of reserve bank - greed
3) 20% increase in power cost - greed
4) potential tax increase - greed

If the rest of the world learns from the GFC and start strengthening their economy, with real innovation leading to actual growth they are going to leave Australia stuck behind with its multi-trillion dollar non-innovative housing bubble.

 

[RupieDupie]

Interest rates are a fee , do you think the banks give out money for free ?

Electricity ,loans and houses are commodities, they are just like a motor boat or a overseas holiday if you cant afford them you go without.

It would be bette for the economy if money spent on dole bludgers was saved and given to big business in tax cuts .

Workers do have some leverage in the fact they can withdraw their labor.

If the bank charged a fee relative to their actual service rendered it will be the usual admin fee of $10.00. No GC, interest rates are applied to a loan due to factors such as risk etc

It would be interesting if the money given to people who rort the system was given to the other people who rort the system in tax cuts, especially if this came with any emphasis on increasing employment. Give a business a tax cut of the equivalent of one year of dole payments in exchange for an annual salary...

Ah, your last paragraph presumes that work remains constant relative to goods/services, but it seems that things like housing can increase relative to salary due to the person being able to access the credit.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Also unfortunately the government is dropping the ball (as usual), the remainder of the world is starting to crawl out of the shithole, created by the greed-spawned GFC. The UK just raised their interest rates for the first time in ~10 years, demonstrating that their economy is strengthening (the banks of course haven't passed on this increase to the people saving - shame they did not learn anything).

Meanwhile at home, and the Australian government is still crapping on about our robust economy, but the low interest rates demonstrate the truth of a weak economy - no one has money to spend.

Here's a few reasons why,

1) house prices - greed
2) bank interest rate increase independent of reserve bank - greed
3) 20% increase in power cost - greed
4) potential tax increase - greed

If the rest of the world learns from the GFC and start strengthening their economy, with real innovation leading to actual growth they are going to leave Australia stuck behind with its multi-trillion dollar non-innovative housing bubble.

Most of that is incorrect.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

If the bank charged a fee relative to their actual service rendered it will be the usual admin fee of $10.00. No GC, interest rates are applied to a loan due to factors such as risk etc

It would be interesting if the money given to people who rort the system was given to the other people who rort the system in tax cuts, especially if this came with any emphasis on increasing employment. Give a business a tax cut of the equivalent of one year of dole payments in exchange for an annual salary...

Ah, your last paragraph presumes that work remains constant relative to goods/services, but it seems that things like housing can increase relative to salary due to the person being able to access the credit.

Were do you think banks get the money from to give out the billons of dollars of loans they give , from thin air ?

Banks exist to make money for people like me their shareholders , if you don't want a loan don't get 1 ,you owning a home is not my problem . Banks are the reason I have so much money I love them to be honest . My problem is the taxes I pay to support you .

 

[NSWCROW]

That's like 8 posts straight without anyone saying " Bludger "


Keep up the good work BF

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Were do you think banks get the money from to give out the billons of dollars of loans they give , from thin air ?

Banks exist to make money for people like me their shareholders , if you don't want a loan don't get 1 ,you owning a home is not my problem . Banks are the reason I have so much money I love them to be honest . My problem is the taxes I pay to support you .

If you had a Million and chose to loan it to someone on the Dole for a flat rate of $10.00 . There would be a name for you.

 

[RupieDupie]

Were do you think banks get the money from to give out the billons of dollars of loans they give , from thin air ?

Banks exist to make money for people like me their shareholders , if you don't want a loan don't get 1 ,you owning a home is not my problem . Banks are the reason I have so much money I love them to be honest . My problem is the taxes I pay to support you .

Well according to you, the bank gets the money from other people working for them to pay off their own compounding interest. Whoops!

What does your second paragraph have to do with anything?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Well according to you, the bank gets the money from other people working for them to pay off their own compounding interest. Whoops!

What does your second paragraph have to do with anything?

It makes sense to most people.
I'll try to explain it to my German Shepherd.
If she understands, it will be worth trying to explain it to you.

Lets just say the world will never work the way you think it should.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Well according to you, the bank gets the money from other people working for them to pay off their own compounding interest. Whoops!

What does your second paragraph have to do with anything?

Banks don't exist to make sure you own a home , they exist to make a profit for their shareholders by providing a commodity at a price that will make the most money . If you don't want the commodity than don't get , the bank is not responsible for you owning a home .

The taxpayer is also not responsible for providing you with an income .

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If anyone thinks its a total rort and banks have it easy. Well just start your own bank.
Of course you'd need to get out of bed to fill in the business registration forms .

 

[RupieDupie]

Banks don't exist to make sure you own a home , they exist to make a profit for their shareholders by providing a commodity at a price that will make the most money . If you don't want the commodity than don't get , the bank is not responsible for you owning a home .

The taxpayer is also not responsible for providing you with an income .

You're just arguing in circles, we're back at the point where I state that most people cannot afford a house without a bank, making banks a necessity for housing, people then work for the bank to pay off compound interest, therefore the bank relies on people doing the work, just like someone wanting to rort the welfare system.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

You're just arguing in circles, we're back at the point where I state that most people cannot afford a house without a bank, making banks a necessity for housing, people then work for the bank to pay off compound interest, therefore the bank relies on people doing the work, just like someone wanting to rort the welfare system.

It is not the banks fault you cant afford a house , like I said companies exist to reward shareholders and banks are no differenT . If you cant afford a BMW or yacht is the bank obliged to finance one for you ?

Look I owe more money to banks than most people do , I wish I could pay less back but I have the economic understanding to realise that banks are at the top of the food chain and without rich profitable banks the economy fails and I wouldn't enjoy the lifestyle I currently have .

Dole Bludgers are just no benefit at all , we can take their money away and it wouldn't hurt the economy 1 single bit . No good saying oh the banks if the banks do bad than we all do bad , if dole bludgers do bad we all do well .

 

[RupieDupie]

It is not the banks fault you cant afford a house , like I said companies exist to reward shareholders and banks are no differenT . If you cant afford a BMW or yacht is the bank obliged to finance one for you ?

Look I owe more money to banks than most people do , I wish I could pay less back but I have the economic understanding to realise that banks are at the top of the food chain and without rich profitable banks the economy fails and I wouldn't enjoy the lifestyle I currently have .

Dole Bludgers are just no benefit at all , we can take their money away and it wouldn't hurt the economy 1 single bit . No good saying oh the banks if the banks do bad than we all do bad , if dole bludgers do bad we all do well .

I do believe you keep creating arguments for me, apparently banks now don't exist to provide any service to customers (I agree) and only exist for their shareholders (I agree). As I've stated before, housing is a necessity and if there was a realistic way to get housing without going through a bank I'm all for it.

I've already given you some arguments as to why welfare rorters are useful to society, in as much the same way as banks are useful to society, 1) they spend money = stronger economy 2) they cost less to big business than a full time employee, which according to your argument = also good for the economy (unless GC is... wrong...)

Incidentally, if banks do bad they get the benefit of an automatic bail out at the expense of the tax payer, and the people responsible get their bonuses and packages.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I do believe you keep creating arguments for me, apparently banks now don't exist to provide any service to customers (I agree) and only exist for their shareholders (I agree). As I've stated before, housing is a necessity and if there was a realistic way to get housing without going through a bank I'm all for it.

I've already given you some arguments as to why welfare rorters are useful to society, in as much the same way as banks are useful to society, 1) they spend money = stronger economy 2) they cost less to big business than a full time employee, which according to your argument = also good for the economy (unless GC is... wrong...)

Incidentally, if banks do bad they get the benefit of an automatic bail out at the expense of the tax payer, and the people responsible get their bonuses and packages.

No you make me feel very good about myself .

Home ownership is not a necessity and its not the banks responsibility to make sure you own a home . A necessity is also not automatically a right .

With regards to benefits of dole bludgers

1. Purchasing cheeseburgers from McDonald's and other limited low cost items has very little benefit to the economy . The more money a person has the more they can do for the economy .A worker can purchase a greater variety of goods at different price ranges and invest some money as well . Rich people can start up a business , employ people and develop new commodities that make our life better .

2. Employees provide a service to big business in the form of labour which is why they are paid , a profitable business always get more value out of their employees than they pay them so its a net win for big business .

 

[RupieDupie]

No you make me feel very good about myself .

Home ownership is not a necessity and its not the banks responsibility to make sure you own a home . A necessity is also not automatically a right .

With regards to benefits of dole bludgers

1. Purchasing cheeseburgers from McDonald's and other limited low cost items has very little benefit to the economy . The more money a person has the more they can do for the economy .A worker can purchase a greater variety of goods at different price ranges and invest some money as well . Rich people can start up a business , employ people and develop new commodities that make our life better .

2. Employees provide a service to big business in the form of labour which is why they are paid , a profitable business always get more value out of their employees than they pay them so its a net win for big business .

If a person doesn't own a house, they are most likely paying rent and what can the rent be paying off? Once again, banks are the only way people can own a house, I also didn't think Australia was a serfdom, you are in your right to feel otherwise, maybe Bolt should break this news to the country?

Seems like purchasing cheeseburgers leads to new products more than lending from banks, McDonalds frequently changes and expands their range, and also provides something in exchange for the money. McDonalds, according to their packaging, rape... I mean utilise local produce etc

Why then does big business employ workers outside of the country? Surely the extra money they have to pay Australians would be worth it?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

not a bad idea but rather than give up on collecting tax off foreign entities (including individuals) or entities that shift profits offshore, we should increase the GST. This ensures we collect the tax and put Australian entities on the same footing.

Sadly though, those who would benefit the most from this policy would resist this positive change.

At the moment , Australian companies suffer badly compared to offshore controlled entities.

Suppose an Australian company invented a new Smartphone they could make for $5.00 and sell for $1000.
The profits are all taxed.

Apple make them for $5.00 , sell them to Apple NorthIreland for $6.00 sell them to Apple Australia for $950.00
Apple have a much smaller profit and dont pay tax.

Australian company loses.

___________________________
True story.

Australian company makes parts for vehicles.
Has a major customer in Korea.
Customer goes broke.
Customer is allowed ( by their laws ) to write of debt.
Australian company is broke ( due to not getting paid by major Korean customer ) under Australian laws.... poooof .... goodbye.
Korean Company, still trading buys Australian company at firesale price.

___________________
Total Bullshit.

Make it good for Australians to have businesses. And i mean bigger businesses than Jims Mowing.

 

[Dixie Normous]

Dole Bludgers are just no benefit at all , we can take their money away and it wouldn't hurt the economy 1 single bit . No good saying oh the banks if the banks do bad than we all do bad , if dole bludgers do bad we all do well .

I think crime might go up quite a bit

 

[JackOutback]

The thing about these so-called dole bludgers is every cent goes back into the system through purchases, GST etc. That probably makes their net worth to Australia more valuable than the kents that shift everything offshore.

 

[Power Raid]

At the moment , Australian companies suffer badly compared to offshore controlled entities.

Suppose an Australian company invented a new Smartphone they could make for $5.00 and sell for $1000.
The profits are all taxed.

Apple make them for $5.00 , sell them to Apple NorthIreland for $6.00 sell them to Apple Australia for $950.00
Apple have a much smaller profit and dont pay tax.

Australian company loses.

___________________________
True story.

Australian company makes parts for vehicles.
Has a major customer in Korea.
Customer goes broke.
Customer is allowed ( by their laws ) to write of debt.
Australian company is broke ( due to not getting paid by major Korean customer ) under Australian laws.... poooof .... goodbye.
Korean Company, still trading buys Australian company at firesale price.

___________________
Total Bullshit.

Make it good for Australians to have businesses. And i mean bigger businesses than Jims Mowing.

yep

Currently an item that costs $50 and sells for $100 for an Australian entity, the total tax take would be $20 made up of $10 GST on $100, less $5 on $50 and $15 corporate tax. Meaning the Aussie pays 40% tax whilst the foreign company dodging tax would only pay 10% or possibly 10.3% in your example.

Increasing GST to 20% and lowering company tax to 20%, evens up the tax take between Australian and foreign entities. Using the same metrics, the Aussie pays $20 being $20 GST, less $10 GST and $10 company tax. The foreign company pays $20 GST. The result is both pay 40% tax.

We can arm waive all we like about foreign companies and transfer pricing or we can do something really simple, tried and proven.




and yes your example re takeovers happens time and time again. Glencore and the Chinese do this all the time.

 

[Power Raid]

The thing about these so-called dole bludgers is every cent goes back into the system through purchases, GST etc. That probably makes their net worth to Australia more valuable than the kents that shift everything offshore.

both are negative outcomes for the nation.

Governments have a responsibility to mobilise the under-utilised for economics, social and health reasons. Governments also have an obligation to collect appropriate and fair taxes.

Sadly governments are interested in votes, politics and arm waving rather than outcomes.

 

[NSWCROW]

The thing about these so-called dole bludgers is every cent goes back into the system through purchases, GST etc. That probably makes their net worth to Australia more valuable than the kents that shift everything offshore.

They know Jack.
They choose to ignore it.

Everyone knows why they do.

 

[Deep]

So how long before they totally cut youth allowance, newstart and the dole?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

The thing about these so-called dole bludgers is every cent goes back into the system through purchases, GST etc. That probably makes their net worth to Australia more valuable than the kents that shift everything offshore.

Low income earners cant do much to stimulate economic growth other than purchase a few basic low cost commodities. Its the rich who deliver real economic growth that improves the quality of our lives by investing in new businesses, wages and new commodities.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

yep

Currently an item that costs $50 and sells for $100 for an Australian entity, the total tax take would be $20 made up of $10 GST on $100, less $5 on $50 and $15 corporate tax. Meaning the Aussie pays 40% tax whilst the foreign company dodging tax would only pay 10% or possibly 10.3% in your example.

Increasing GST to 20% and lowering company tax to 20%, evens up the tax take between Australian and foreign entities. Using the same metrics, the Aussie pays $20 being $20 GST, less $10 GST and $10 company tax. The foreign company pays $20 GST. The result is both pay 40% tax.

We can arm waive all we like about foreign companies and transfer pricing or we can do something really simple, tried and proven.




and yes your example re takeovers happens time and time again. Glencore and the Chinese do this all the time.

But if we reduce company tax we are giving it to the fat cat bosses.