Politics Centrelink

[Frank Bunn]

Its strange Australia doesnt do this
US UK and I imagine lots of other countries do this

In the UK, eligibility for free school lunches (dinners) has always been means tested. At my school, everyone knew who got them so there was a certain stigma attached to it. Better than kids going hungry I guess.

Australia has schemes such as Victoria's Breakfast Clubs and NSW Breakfast 4 Health. Schools being closed due to Covid-19 restrictions would have had a significant impact on children under those programs this year.

 

[Power Raid]

You are saying that one can only buy a packet of ciggies if one provides their details.

That's not free choice.

That's putting a condition on a purchase.

If it was free choice then one could choose whether or not one provides their details on purchase of a packet of ciggies.

I'm pro free-choice for abortion, vaccination, euthanasia (with absolutely no controls), same sex marriage and cigarettes.

All of these currently require providing your details, if requested.

 

[Power Raid]

For that very reason, schools should provide lunch free of charge to all students.

Some parents are deadset shitstains.

it would reduce crime rates, as kids do commit crimes simply have something in their bellies
improve education outcomes as they can concentrate
it also provides an incentive to turn up on time

 

[Frank Bunn]

Give it time they know its a vote winner to punch down

It's probable that the rules will change at some point but you seemed to claiming the current measures were responsible for suicides.

 

[Hawk Dork]

It's probable that the rules will change at some point but you seemed to claiming the current measures were responsible for suicides.

No
I was referring to Power Raids post re adding further restrictions on what people can buy wouldnt be helpful

 

[Power Raid]

It's probable that the rules will change at some point but you seemed to claiming the current measures were responsible for suicides.

as you highlight preemptive suicides

or

one takes positive action to die of cancer, then commits suicide to avoid health treatment



neither position seems quite right

 

[Power Raid]

Buying ciggies in the same basket as abortion, euthansia, SSM.

You are the funniest campaigner on these board PR.

no I'm just highlighting I'm pro free choice. You jumped in with a position and embarrassed yourself. Then decided to dig deeper with distraction.


take responsibility!

 

[Hawk Dork]

no I'm just highlighting I'm pro free choice. You jumped in with a position and embarrassed yourself. Then decided to dig deeper with distraction.


take responsibility!

Surely a UBI is more free choice than whats currently on offer ?

 

[Frank Bunn]

No
I was referring to Power Raids post re adding further restrictions on what people can buy wouldnt be helpful

Fair enough. Not many people are on the trial schemes that have the restrictions. The reviews of the trials have been mixed but I haven't seen a claim the measures are responsible for more suicides.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Understand your reasoning but do you really think someone who prioritises their own addiction/s over the health and wellbeing of their children is going to change their ways if we put a muzzle on what they spend their welfare on? Seriously??



I said 'probably'. Though, granted, there would no doubt be low income people who still prioritise spending on cigs over other essentials.

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Bottom line is I - like pretty much nearly everyone else - am opposed to the idea of someone else telling me what I can and can't spend my coin on. Therefore, I am going to extend the same curtesy to everyone else - whether they are on welfare or not.

Whether or not I think it's stupid buying smokes when you've got limited coin(and it absolutely is) is not relevant because what they - and vice versa - spend their money on is none of my business.

I find the idea that we need to moderate what people spend their money on as being extremely grubby and frankly, shithouse. As I said above, it's a big can of worms and it sets up some really ugly precedents.

The thing is, if you have extra money to provide for your kids, yet you aren't responsible enough to provide for them, then something is wrong, you don't deserve to be treated as an adult.
If i was only getting paid enough money to live hand to mouth, being forced to spend half of my welfare in a major supermarket would be no imposition. That's what i'd be doing anyway.
People addicted to pokies for example, don't go out and plan to spend all their money , they start and they don't stop. Some would be pretty grateful the next day if they had somehow been stopped.

 

[Over The Post]

The thing is, if you have extra money to provide for your kids, yet you aren't responsible enough to provide for them, then something is wrong, you don't deserve to be treated as an adult.

So instead of having an issue with the few who do that, you **** everyone else up.

Responsible parent forced to buy brand new textbooks on the card because they have no cash for the bookstall / facebook bargains.
Responsible parent forced to buy brand new school uniforms on the card because they have no cash for the secondhand facebook bargains.
Responsible parent forced to buy veges from Woolies and not the local stallholders because they have no cash.
Responsible parent looking at the above and realising it has been imposed on them, not to achieve a better outcome to them, but to fatten the wallets of politicians and Australia's richest people: ****ing priceless.

This from over a year ago.

Indue and the small matter of political corruption

Would it ever be acceptable to appoint James Packer or Gerry Harvey to review social programs on behalf of government? Or Meriton property tycoon Harry

newpolitics.com.au

 

[Power Raid]

Surely a UBI is more free choice than whats currently on offer ?

I would go as far to say, if there was any reason to go to war and that would be to implement UBI and set in place the framework to make that happen.

Sadly though, Africa will have as big a population as Asia by the end of this century. Which left unchecked, with the corrupt governments they have, is counter to the cause.


UBI, participation and community focus.

 

[Gethelred]

surely there needs to be a regular visit to a church hall too

Power Raid the Prohibitionist.

 

[Gethelred]

I just find it interesting that people are comfortable to pay money to put themselves at risk DYING OF CANCER or related smoking disease. Something that is 3 TIMES MORE DEADLY THAN COVID.

Yet we are happy to shut down the world for one but not happy to swipe a medicare card for the other.

So people are happy to spend money to kill themselves but when it comes to health, they suddenly catch no accountability. Hmmm

Addiction's a funny thing.

I'm surprised at your lack of empathy and the degree to which you're willing to blame smokers and not cigarette companies, who have spent ****ing decades fighting to stay legal and to addict generation after generation. I genuinely thought you were better than that.

Ah well.

 

[Power Raid]

Addiction's a funny thing.

I'm surprised at your lack of empathy and the degree to which you're willing to blame smokers and not cigarette companies, who have spent ******* decades fighting to stay legal and to addict generation after generation. I genuinely thought you were better than that.

Ah well.

I can’t believe you won’t help these addicts early, before they suffer from completely avoidable life threatening diseases.

If only you’d enable the health system access to data early, perhaps lives could be saved.

Why are you so cruel?

 

[twotooto]

I just find it interesting that people are comfortable to pay money to put themselves at risk DYING OF CANCER or related smoking disease. Something that is 3 TIMES MORE DEADLY THAN COVID.

Yet we are happy to shut down the world for one but not happy to swipe a medicare card for the other.

So people are happy to spend money to kill themselves but when it comes to health, they suddenly catch no accountability. Hmmm

So what you're saying is if someone needs to present at hospital and they've previously 'swiped' their Medicare card when buying darts they shouldn't be eligible for free healthcare? And if they did present and they were really crook you'd be happy for the hospital to say "nah mate, sorry, we can't treat you here, we have evidence that you bought a pack of darts"?

And that you'd also be happy for people to swipe their card every time they bought something unhealthy(including alcohol) and the same restrictions would then apply regarding access to healthcare?

Assuming the answers are yes, and they seem to be since that is what you've indicated, do you realise how ridiculous you sound??

Again, what are the outcomes that you're wanting to see eventuate here?

 

[Gethelred]

I can’t believe you won’t help these addicts early, before they suffer from completely avoidable life threatening diseases.

If only you’d enable the health system access to data early, perhaps lives could be saved.

Why are you so cruel?

I think you're being intensely disingenuous, but that's unsurprising. This is hardly the first time you've been caught playing with facts to suit your arguments, either.

It's funny how able you are to spin a mass invasion of privacy so easily, and how comfortably that sits with you. It's also deeply troubling how you've attempted to sugarcoat mass governmental intervention into the lives of its citizens.

You'd be an apologist for Mussolini or the Stazi, had you lived in those respective regimes, such is your bent here.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

So instead of having an issue with the few who do that, you fu** everyone else up.

Responsible parent forced to buy brand new textbooks on the card because they have no cash for the bookstall / facebook bargains.
Responsible parent forced to buy brand new school uniforms on the card because they have no cash for the secondhand facebook bargains.
Responsible parent forced to buy veges from Woolies and not the local stallholders because they have no cash.
Responsible parent looking at the above and realising it has been imposed on them, not to achieve a better outcome to them, but to fatten the wallets of politicians and Australia's richest people: ******* priceless.

This from over a year ago.

Indue and the small matter of political corruption

Would it ever be acceptable to appoint James Packer or Gerry Harvey to review social programs on behalf of government? Or Meriton property tycoon Harry

newpolitics.com.au

Your conclusions are kind of , let me think of the technical term for it...that's it...Bullshit.

a) i didn't propose 100% welfare card.
b) no evidence at all that it would fatten the wallets of Gina Rheinhart or Politicians. Stupid fearmongering nonsense.

 

[Power Raid]

I think you're being intensely disingenuous, but that's unsurprising. This is hardly the first time you've been caught playing with facts to suit your arguments, either.

It's funny how able you are to spin a mass invasion of privacy so easily, and how comfortably that sits with you. It's also deeply troubling how you've attempted to sugarcoat mass governmental intervention into the lives of its citizens.

You'd be an apologist for Mussolini or the Stazi, had you lived in those respective regimes, such is your bent here.

that's a pretty amazing leap to go from suggesting someone who support UBI, increasing the dole, encouraging participation, advocates the health system collecting data to ensure a scientific and factual basis, to someone being an apopolgist for Mussolini or Stazi.

Perhaps you realised your position didn't stack up and needed a gough like out

 

[Power Raid]

So what you're saying is if someone needs to present at hospital and they've previously 'swiped' their Medicare card when buying darts they shouldn't be eligible for free healthcare? And if they did present and they were really crook you'd be happy for the hospital to say "nah mate, sorry, we can't treat you here, we have evidence that you bought a pack of darts"?

And that you'd also be happy for people to swipe their card every time they bought something unhealthy(including alcohol) and the same restrictions would then apply regarding access to healthcare?

Assuming the answers are yes, and they seem to be since that is what you've indicated, do you realise how ridiculous you sound??

Again, what are the outcomes that you're wanting to see eventuate here?

Cigarettes are three times more likely to kill someone this year than covid. Given people shit the bed over Covid, perhaps we should look at cigarettes.

I'm suggesting cigarettes should require the swipe of medicare to ensure compliance with regulations and the collection of data for health purposes. but I would be comfortable for this to be extended to all regulated products from alcohol, prescription drugs and even illegal drugs.

As some suggest cigarettes are addictive, meaning with health data early intervention in the form of education and a simple "are you OK" could be possible. Then as the user becomes statistically at risk, then they can be informed about options for private insurance as the public health insurance is being placed at risk.

 

[Over The Post]

Your conclusions are kind of , let me think of the technical term for it...that's it...Bullshit.
a) i didn't propose 100% welfare card.
b) no evidence at all that it would fatten the wallets of Gina Rheinhart or Politicians. Stupid fearmongering nonsense.

Didn't bother to read the ****ing article, did you?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Didn't bother to read the ******* article, did you?

The article is based on specifics.
As a concept , the Indue corporation does not need to be involved.
As a concept i believe its a decent one, and does not need to be hijacked by big business or banks.

Just because the government often do things stupidly doesn't mean that they NEED to do things stupidly.

 

[Gethelred]

that's a pretty amazing leap to go from suggesting someone who support UBI, increasing the dole, encouraging participation, advocates the health system collecting data to ensure a scientific and factual basis, to someone being an apopolgist for Mussolini or Stazi.

Perhaps you realised your position didn't stack up and needed a gough like out

Perhaps you don't like the lack of freedom and privacy your paternalism demands. You'd be magnificent at apologising for power, because that's what you're doing here.

 

[Over The Post]

The article is based on specifics.
As a concept , the Indue corporation does not need to be involved.
As a concept i believe its a decent one, and does not need to be hijacked by big business or banks.
Just because the government often do things stupidly doesn't mean that they NEED to do things stupidly.

Well sorry to burst your ideological bubble, but the FACTS are, the Indue corporation IS involved and the concept/scheme has already been hijacked by big business and the banks.

Do you seriously think the government is going to turn around and say "Indue's ****ed, lets start from scratch on a more equitable and socially responsible footing"?

How... hmm, delusional. Yes, delusional.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Well sorry to burst your ideological bubble, but the FACTS are, the Indue corporation IS involved and the concept/scheme has already been hijacked by big business and the banks.

Do you seriously think the government is going to turn around and say "Indue's f’ed, lets start from scratch on a more equitable and socially responsible footing"?

How... hmm, delusional. Yes, delusional.

Ummm its a trial.
My proposal was never for a cashless system. Any fool could see that would be a problem, ( except the government ).
20% is too small a cash component.

What's your solution , leave it up to individual choice as to whether people feed their children or not?

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Certainly, there are start-up costs involved in servicing this type of program, but up to $10,000 for a private company to manage an account only worth up to $14,000 annually raises questions of whether the Indue company is the most cost-effective option for this scheme. It also raises the question of why Indue was chosen in the first instance, especially when the expertise and experience provided by the National Australia Bank, Commonwealth Bank, Westpac or ANZ would have been far superior.
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