Champion players?

[Ash09]

I know Barrassi coached us in the 1970s - did he come out of retirement to be a player of the past 20 years too?

um................yes

 

[gosaints]

It's actually a tough question.
I believe a champion player is someone who:
1. lifts for the big ocasion.
2. Imposes himself on a game.
3. Makes others around him better.
4. Has presence.

Champions
Hird, Voss and Buckley

Up and coming champs
Judd, Riewoldt and J.Brown

IMO don't quite make it but very good:
Tredrae - Great player but hasn't really imposed himself in big games enough.
Crawford - Ditto
Harvey - one of my favorites but just hasn't kicked enough goals.

There are others but, time constraints.

I agree with what you say, the 4 areas that define a champion player but I don't agree with you saying that Rob Harvey isn't a champion because he doesn't kick enough goals. Rob sets them up better than any one player in the comp over the last decade. As for stepping up in the big games. Watch a replay of last years semi-final which was also his 300th.. The guy is a deadset champion.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

um................yes

um........ I know nothing about your club's list this year, let alone in the past, so I checked:
"The champ played 204 games and kicked 295 goals with the Demons from 1953 to 1964 and played starring roles in a staggering six premierships for the club. He was appointed captain-coach of Carlton in 1965 in one of the biggest footy stories in the history of the game.

Barassi went on to play 50 games and kicked 35 goals for the Blues before hanging up the boots after the 1969 season. Ron Barassi finished his grand playing career with a total of 254 games and 330 goals."


I nominate Greig, Dench and Schimmelbush as champions as well. Oh what the hell, and Foote.

 

[SaintsSupporter]

Robert Harvey, for sure. Others are Hird, Carey, Voss, and Lloyd.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

I agree with what you say, the 4 areas that define a champion player but I don't agree with you saying that Rob Harvey isn't a champion because he doesn't kick enough goals. Rob sets them up better than any one player in the comp over the last decade. As for stepping up in the big games. Watch a replay of last years semi-final which was also his 300th.. The guy is a deadset champion.

Yes, Harvey is in. Longetivity at the top of his game added to his skill and presence around the ground - mostly in an ordinary side - makes him the real thing. Goal kicking is so much to do with position on the field and game plans, it can't be one of the criteria.

 

[SaintsSupporter]

Rob Harvey isn't a champion because he doesn't kick enough goals.

Err...what the hell? By your theory, someone in the backline can't be a champion, then.

 

[tdubfleet]

No your right, he must suck to have played 280 games of footy at the highest level

Never said he sucked, just gave my opinion on why he isn't a champion. He has played a heap of those games in the cats wilderness years and somehow I do not think when Bomber took over the reins his thought process was something along the lines of, "That Riccardi is a champion, I think I will build a list around him."

Quantity does not make him a champion, Mark Graham has played 225, durable, but not a champ. Hell, Rayden Tallis almost played 200 games of AFL.

 

[worthy]

I agree with what you say, the 4 areas that define a champion player but I don't agree with you saying that Rob Harvey isn't a champion because he doesn't kick enough goals. Rob sets them up better than any one player in the comp over the last decade. As for stepping up in the big games. Watch a replay of last years semi-final which was also his 300th.. The guy is a deadset champion.

Your probably right, people do tend to forget how good players are when they're in thier prime. Guilty, didn't mean to dis him, like i said one of my all time favs.

 

[Choota]

Hawthorn champions from the last 20 years...

Dunstall
Brereton
Ayres
Langford
Platten

Crawford may just miss out. Might sneak him in. Mew, Jarman etc just a notch below.

 

[Squeak]

Collingwood (thins out in the last 50 years):

******** Lee
Gordon Coventry
Syd Coventry
Harry Collier
Albert Collier
Des Fothergill
Bob Rose
Peter McKenna
Len Thompson
Peter Daicos
Nathan Buckley

I'm sure I've missed a couple but those are possibly our best 11 players of all time, and I think all could be described as champions.

Phil Carman could have been the best of the lot.

 

[incubi]

I personally think Chris Grant should have got a mention at some stage.
He was definitely one of the players of the 90's, playing at full forward, or centre half forwad, or centre half back.
WIll play his 300th game in 2 weeks against adeliade, has 497 goals, runner up in the 1996 brownlow, most votes in 1997.
Best and fairest in 1994, 96,end in best and fairest 97,98 and 99, club leading goal kicker in 1990 (debut season, still youngest player to kick 50 goals in a season) and 1994, club captain 2000-2004.
Bulldogs team of the century, all australian 97, 98, 99.
He also stands up for big games, in his last 7 finals appearances he averages 17 touches, 7 marks and 2.4 goals which is a handy effort.
If Grant was a media personaily like Buckley or Hird he deservedly would be put in the same bracket yet is forgotten, not even getting a mention.

 

[94_Eagles]

Champions at the Eagles are ( Peter ) Matera, Jakovich and I think Judd will be one.

Great players are Kemp, Woosha, Bluey McKenna, Mainwairing, and Cousins but they are not champions.

Who are you kidding, Kemp is an out an out champion, probably the best player to play for our club.

 

[Demonheart]

Who are you kidding, Kemp is an out an out champion, probably the best player to play for our club.

I totally forgot about Kemp, champion in my eyes.


It's alot harder than I thought.

 

[Altum Volantes]

I've always considered Jakovich, Matera, Kemp and McKenna as champions of the game, all amoungst the best ever in their position over many years. Perhaps some bias but I consider those guys the cream of the crop from West Coast. Cousins maybe one day, he's up there and Judd has champion written all over him.

 

[fusion]

I agree with the original poster that champion is overused. I was having a chat to some English tourists, who'd never seen the game. They wanted to know who were the "superstar players", such as the David Beckham of AFL.

Given that we aren't an international game, it's a bit hard to compare, but I couldn't help think that at any time there would be only a handful of "superstars" in the competition at one time.

Using my club as an example - I think we all hold Archer in high esteem. Over 200 games, Norm Smith Medal, universally respected for his courage... but definately NOT a superstar. In fact, we don't have any on our list at the moment.

I'd name Voss, Hird, Buckley, Robert Harvey as the absolute top level "Legends". Guys like Riewoldt and Judd are probably the best 2 players, but the above guys have done it for their entire careers.

Players like Archer, Neitz etc will be recognised as "champions" of their club, but wouldn't be considered in an AFL Team of the Century. (eg Lockett, Carey, Williams, Dunstall, Ablett will always be mentioned in the squad for a TOTC).

my 2 cents anyway...

 

[jod23]

At West Coast

Jakovich
Matera
Kemp
McKenna

All four are out and out champions of the AFL. No question about it. Close but no cigar for guys like Lewis, Mainwaring, Sumich, Worsfold, McIntosh etc...

Cousins and Judd are the current Eagles that may join the top 4 i mentioned as AFL champions.

 

[Ron]

I agree with the original poster that champion is overused. I was having a chat to some English tourists, who'd never seen the game. They wanted to know who were the "superstar players", such as the David Beckham of AFL.

Given that we aren't an international game, it's a bit hard to compare, but I couldn't help think that at any time there would be only a handful of "superstars" in the competition at one time.

Using my club as an example - I think we all hold Archer in high esteem. Over 200 games, Norm Smith Medal, universally respected for his courage... but definately NOT a superstar. In fact, we don't have any on our list at the moment.

I'd name Voss, Hird, Buckley, Robert Harvey as the absolute top level "Legends". Guys like Riewoldt and Judd are probably the best 2 players, but the above guys have done it for their entire careers.

Players like Archer, Neitz etc will be recognised as "champions" of their club, but wouldn't be considered in an AFL Team of the Century. (eg Lockett, Carey, Williams, Dunstall, Ablett will always be mentioned in the squad for a TOTC).

my 2 cents anyway...

I agree with everything this man said.

 

[Grendel]

Matthews -->

the rest


there were quite a few of 'the rest'.

 

[skipper kelly]

I personally think Chris Grant should have got a mention at some stage.
He was definitely one of the players of the 90's, playing at full forward, or centre half forwad, or centre half back.
WIll play his 300th game in 2 weeks against adeliade, has 497 goals, runner up in the 1996 brownlow, most votes in 1997.
Best and fairest in 1994, 96,end in best and fairest 97,98 and 99, club leading goal kicker in 1990 (debut season, still youngest player to kick 50 goals in a season) and 1994, club captain 2000-2004.
Bulldogs team of the century, all australian 97, 98, 99.
He also stands up for big games, in his last 7 finals appearances he averages 17 touches, 7 marks and 2.4 goals which is a handy effort.
If Grant was a media personaily like Buckley or Hird he deservedly would be put in the same bracket yet is forgotten, not even getting a mention.

Quite correct. Grant was a star and could easily have 2 brownlows. Injuries have taken the gloss off his career.

 

[Pie 4 Life]

Collingwood:
Buckley, G. Brown, Shaw, Daicos