China's Covid lockdown protests

[Better Loosen Up]

Could we be seeing the start of something that might develop into a Tiananmen Square type situation?

Of course, it's got a hell of a long way to go before it becomes anything like that but Xi is not usually the type that likes to back down and the people of China are at breaking point.

The fact that there are people openly calling for Xi to stand down and voicing their disapproval of his leader for life ruling is pretty significant in itself I would have thought?

 

[owen87]

Could we be seeing the start of something that might develop into a Tiananmen Square type situation?

Of course, it's got a hell of a long way to go before it becomes anything like that but Xi is not usually the type that likes to back down and the people of China are at breaking point.

The fact that there are people openly calling for Xi to stand down and voicing their disapproval of his leader for life ruling is pretty significant in itself I would have thought?

Very significant, but a long way from achieving anything. Likely they get quietly disappeared if they get too noisy.

 

[Taylor]

It could be very ugly. Not that I think it would ever get there, for appreciation of retaliatory violence reasons, but should a PLA division side with the people it could lead to an international coalition removing China's nuclear arsenal. Chinese civil war would be disastrous for world security, similar to Russian.

And we all thought WW3 would kick off in Europe or Taiwan.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Very significant, but a long way from achieving anything. Likely they get quietly disappeared if they get too noisy.

The Chinese don't stand down anywhere near as easily as the Russians.

 

[Zidane98]

I'm not sure what Xi's endgame here is with covid.


Zero covid simply is utterly impossible. The virus is now endemic to humans. 31,000 cases in China might seem like a great result but there are surely 10 times that amount that go unreported. There's probably a very real fear from anyone who has suspected covid19 symptoms to come forward now.


It is definitely not doing him any favors. Quite why Xi seems fit to pursue this path when covid death rates for fully vaccinated is low is beyond me.

He won't want to be seen to giving in to protestors but I bet there will be a gradual relaxation of covid regulations over the next year or so. It really is Xi's only option or he faces a mutiny.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Correct me if wrong but I don't think Xi himself has said anything about covid zero during this particular protests, it is more the underlings who are assuming no change to policy. He might be searching for a way to relax slightly. Or maybe introduce vaccination mandates (seriously don't know why he hadn't done this already) as part of an exit plan

 

[Rob R]

Correct me if wrong but I don't think Xi himself has said anything about covid zero during this particular protests, it is more the underlings who are assuming no change to policy. He might be searching for a way to relax slightly. Or maybe introduce vaccination mandates (seriously don't know why he hadn't done this already) as part of an exit plan

He has total control over there but rest assured if things go badly, some of his opponents will get show trials to take the blame while he "fixes" the problem he actually caused.

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[Better Loosen Up]

CCP blaming it on the CIA and external influencers now while not backing down on restrictions.

Universities have been closed to help disperse the students thus reducing the risk of further protests.

 

[adogsfan5]

Biggest fraud in the world.

 

[Jafa]

Biggest fraud in the world.

View attachment 1565016

Hes quite the campaigner.

 

[Toil83]

I'm not sure what Xi's endgame here is with covid.


Zero covid simply is utterly impossible. The virus is now endemic to humans. 31,000 cases in China might seem like a great result but there are surely 10 times that amount that go unreported. There's probably a very real fear from anyone who has suspected covid19 symptoms to come forward now.


It is definitely not doing him any favors. Quite why Xi seems fit to pursue this path when covid death rates for fully vaccinated is low is beyond me.

He won't want to be seen to giving in to protestors but I bet there will be a gradual relaxation of covid regulations over the next year or so. It really is Xi's only option or he faces a mutiny.

I assume the plan was to wait until China made their own mRNA vaccine either by development or acquiring it via tech transfer so he could announce they had created the best vaccine for their people.

However that's taking much longer than anticipated so he's stuck.

 

[Spearman]

CHINA PROTESTS: Xi Faces Toughest Test of His Social Credit Controls

Social credit — the automated denial of basic services for “antisocial” behavior — was supposed to serve as the lynchpin of Communist Chinese strongman Xi Jinping’s increasingly totalitarian regime. But nationwide protests may put Xi’s scheme to the test.

If you’re tempted to compare the latest protests to the brutally suppressed Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, that might be a mistake. China specialist Gordon Chang told Fox News Monday, “This is actually more dangerous than 1989, the Tiananmen Square massacre, because then, protesters really wanted to keep the Communist Party in place, but just wanted to replace some hard-line leaders.”

Admittedly, Chang has made a career of predicting the CCP’s downfall, starting (at least) with the 2001 publication of his book, The Coming Collapse of China. There’s a 21-year-old copy on my bookshelves downstairs, serving as a reminder of the folly of making predictions.

But there is still at least some truth in what Chang says. Tiananmen Square was a protest largely of, by, and for college students looking for a somewhat kinder, gentler CCP. Today’s protests are mass events spread throughout the country, and show sometimes-violent frustration with the entire regime — particularly Xi’s “zero COVID” lockdowns.
It appears things have quieted down a lot since the weekend. Crackdowns utilizing the social credit thing is more subtle and effective.

Anecdotally,

Guangzhou city today. If Chinese government remotely switches your health passport to code yellow, you will become homeless.
Because with yellow code on your phone, you can't go back to your apartment, stay at hotel, take any public transport...trouble to get food too
more hearsay from the Spousal News Agency from local media: in Shanghai, cops can now stop anyone and delete pictures from their phones. Maybe.

 

[adogsfan5]

CHINA PROTESTS: Xi Faces Toughest Test of His Social Credit Controls

Social credit — the automated denial of basic services for “antisocial” behavior — was supposed to serve as the lynchpin of Communist Chinese strongman Xi Jinping’s increasingly totalitarian regime. But nationwide protests may put Xi’s scheme to the test.

If you’re tempted to compare the latest protests to the brutally suppressed Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, that might be a mistake. China specialist Gordon Chang told Fox News Monday, “This is actually more dangerous than 1989, the Tiananmen Square massacre, because then, protesters really wanted to keep the Communist Party in place, but just wanted to replace some hard-line leaders.”

Admittedly, Chang has made a career of predicting the CCP’s downfall, starting (at least) with the 2001 publication of his book, The Coming Collapse of China. There’s a 21-year-old copy on my bookshelves downstairs, serving as a reminder of the folly of making predictions.

But there is still at least some truth in what Chang says. Tiananmen Square was a protest largely of, by, and for college students looking for a somewhat kinder, gentler CCP. Today’s protests are mass events spread throughout the country, and show sometimes-violent frustration with the entire regime — particularly Xi’s “zero COVID” lockdowns.
It appears things have quieted down a lot since the weekend. Crackdowns utilizing the social credit thing is more subtle and effective.

Anecdotally,

Guangzhou city today. If Chinese government remotely switches your health passport to code yellow, you will become homeless.
Because with yellow code on your phone, you can't go back to your apartment, stay at hotel, take any public transport...trouble to get food too
more hearsay from the Spousal News Agency from local media: in Shanghai, cops can now stop anyone and delete pictures from their phones. Maybe.

How the fu** has no other country called China out on this system? This is utter madness.

 

[Rob R]

How the fu** has no other country called China out on this system? This is utter madness.

Money and they play the racist card if white governments call them out even though the CCP is easily the most racist government (not the people) in the world

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[adogsfan5]

Money and they play the racist card if white governments call them out even though the CCP is easily the most racist government (not the people) in the world

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“If Chinese government remotely switches your health passport to code yellow, you will become homeless.
Because with yellow code on your phone, you can't go back to your apartment, stay at hotel, take any public transport...trouble to get food too”

I can’t believe the lack of disgust in this. This is repulsive.

 

[Rob R]

“If Chinese government remotely switches your health passport to code yellow, you will become homeless.
Because with yellow code on your phone, you can't go back to your apartment, stay at hotel, take any public transport...trouble to get food too”

I can’t believe the lack of disgust in this. This is repulsive.

I am sure it has nothing to do with the social media platform used to express outrage these days being 100% controlled by the CCP.

The stupidity of people today is mind boggling, won't provide data for covid app but happy with TikToks government controlled facial recognition and friendship databases.

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[Crankyhawk]

Biggest fraud in the world.

View attachment 1565016

Was Canada aiming for covid zero in Feb 2022? Locking up apartment buildings on contact tracing? Or were there restrictions more akin to what Australia had at the time with a vaccinated population (some work rules, vaccine mandates etc).

 

[Evolved1]

Was Canada aiming for covid zero in Feb 2022? Locking up apartment buildings on contact tracing? Or were there restrictions more akin to what Australia had at the time with a vaccinated population (some work rules, vaccine mandates etc).

Does it matter? Either protest is a legitimate democratic right or it isn't. JT decided it wasn't, and is now trying to preach at a nation that isn't even a democracy. He can gagf.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Does it matter? Either protest is a legitimate democratic right or it isn't. JT decided it wasn't, and is now trying to preach at a nation that isn't even a democracy. He can gagf.

no; protest is a right against ridiculous overreach. That is the nuance. So if you protest against mild covid restrictions in the over the top truck blockade, expect criticism, but if you are protesting against over the top restrictions that are not seen as reasonable by a country doing the mild restrictions, the second country can support. Theres no hypocrisy here, only to those who view freedom as an absolute - which it is not.

 

[Evolved1]

no; protest is a right against ridiculous overreach. That is the nuance. So if you protest against mild covid restrictions in the over the top truck blockade, expect criticism, but if you are protesting against over the top restrictions that are not seen as reasonable by a country doing the mild restrictions, the second country can support. Theres no hypocrisy here, only to those who view freedom as an absolute - which it is not.

Who decides what forms ridiculous government and police overreach? We locked down public housing towers, had a curfew, outdoor mask policy, police visiting people at home for social media posts, police targeting grannies on park benches. That may or may not be reasonable to you.

The point is that both yours and my idea of "ridiculous overreach" are subjective. The right to protest is more important to democracy than our subjective views of government overreach.

We have zero right to preach at China for doing what they deem necessary to protect themselves against covid. The same is true for Canada.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Who decides what forms ridiculous government and police overreach? We locked down public housing towers, had a curfew, outdoor mask policy, police visiting people at home for social media posts, police targeting grannies on park benches. That may or may not be reasonable to you.

The point is that both yours and my idea of "ridiculous overreach" are subjective. The right to protest is more important to democracy than our subjective views of government overreach.

We have zero right to preach at China for doing what they deem necessary to protect themselves against covid. The same is true for Canada.

We did those actions pre vaccination availability. China has vaccine availability yet do not have a vaccination mandate.

We are free to advocate/ preach; China is of course free to ignore what others say. Which is pretty standard China. (Well they pretend not to care then knife you with trade sanctions…)

 

[adogsfan5]

Was Canada aiming for covid zero in Feb 2022? Locking up apartment buildings on contact tracing? Or were there restrictions more akin to what Australia had at the time with a vaccinated population (some work rules, vaccine mandates etc).

I get where you’re coming from but where do we draw the line?
Yes you can protest and express your feelings, but depends what the topic is?

China has had this system for months on end, did we need a protest in order for a PM to show some balls to make a comment? JT didn’t want to condemn this months ago?

I see inconsistencies all around the world with protesting. Have a look at the climate ones going on. People glueing themselves to roads, blocking roads and damaging property. Yet this doesn’t seem to make any news or any commentary from the government. The government seems to pick and choose what they like in my opinion.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I get where you’re coming from but where do we draw the line?
Yes you can protest and express your feelings, but depends what the topic is?

China has had this system for months on end, did we need a protest in order for a PM to show some balls to make a comment? JT didn’t want to condemn this months ago?

I see inconsistencies all around the world with protesting. Have a look at the climate ones going on. People glueing themselves to roads, blocking roads and damaging property. Yet this doesn’t seem to make any news or any commentary from the government. The government seems to pick and choose what they like in my opinion.

For me the response was about Trudeau and the comment that he was being inconsistent criticising Canadian protest but supporting Chinese protest. I don’t see the inconsistency as he has his mild restrictions which he saw as appropriate in Feb 2022 there protestors not appropriate in his mind; while much harsher restrictions in China (and later in pandemic when organised countries with money and vaccines should have got people vaccinated by now) there protest appropriate in his mind. Fairer to criticise if Canada lockdown was similar intensity to Chinese one in Feb 2022.

 

[Spearman]

“If Chinese government remotely switches your health passport to code yellow, you will become homeless.
Because with yellow code on your phone, you can't go back to your apartment, stay at hotel, take any public transport...trouble to get food too”

I can’t believe the lack of disgust in this. This is repulsive.

Chinese history is riddled with inhumanity, even by European standards (inquisition, Cathar crusade, anti-Jew etc).
Now with electronic dependency making it even easier. How about all your wealth, money etal being credits in an app? It's a Brave New World.

 

[Spearman]

Taiwan had localized lockdowns based on positive cases, with aggressive contact tracing and public announcements and notifications. What they also did was make provisions for those locked down to receive things they might need. There a lot who suffered but nobody died from the lockdowns. I'm sure if there had been a fire at one of the locations anyone inside would have been rescued.
Chinese decision making is pretty top-down. The man on point won't dare make the call. I bet it kept getting kicked upstairs until it was too late. And now they are dealing with the consequences. It is an enormously difficult populace to control. Mistrust of any sort of government or officialdom goes back millennia.