Health Chiropracty

[woopedazz]

I have a strong opinion on certain alternative medicines; Chiropracty being one of them. It is my opinion that it is a scam, but unlike certain other AM therapies it is a scam that can leave it's victim in a worse predicament after treatment than they were before. It is also an addictive therapy without any scientific or medical basis, nor have any studies been taken that prove it to have any causative link with health improvement.

That being said I understand it is a popular therapy and widely accepted by the common public (especially sports persons) as a good "wellness therapy." Therefore I want to gauge why this is the case. My only possible conclusion so far has been the notion of "faith." People believe in Chiropractors as they believe in God. How else can someone believe in something that has no proof?

I like spirited debate. Therefore I am posting here to see if any Chiropractor supporters can turn me around, because at the moment I just do not understand why anyone would go to a Chiropractor at all.

 

[HSSB]

Why don't we have a jobs board?

 

[GOEAGLES 08]

Chriopracty is a load of shit. And your right in saying they leave you worse of then to begin with.

Also, no athlete (with any sort of common sense) would ever go to a chiropractor. Being in the sports area myself, no one should ever be referred to a chiropracter.

 

[clivewaterhousen]

i think physio is another one


always "rest it, and we will give it an xray"

or

"do these basic stretches"

or

"come back every day for 3 weeks and we will massage it"

 

[melaniej]

i think physio is another one


always "rest it, and we will give it an xray"

or

"do these basic stretches"

or

"come back every day for 3 weeks and we will massage it"

This is probably correct for private practice physio's, as they are aiming to make money.
If you see physio's in hospitals, they are actually trying to minimize the amount of visits to treat you, so as to maximize patient turnover, so will actually do all they can. Whereas private practice where you pay for each individual session, they are going to want you to have as many sessions as possible. It is more focussed on money making, however it is effective.

 

[woopedazz]

This is probably correct for private practice physio's, as they are aiming to make money.
If you see physio's in hospitals, they are actually trying to minimize the amount of visits to treat you, so as to maximize patient turnover, so will actually do all they can. Whereas private practice where you pay for each individual session, they are going to want you to have as many sessions as possible. It is more focussed on money making, however it is effective.

Yeah this. I have no problems with physio's because there is basis behind their occupation. I would never consider going to one unless I needed to, and never on week by week/month by month basis unless I had a chronic illness like CF or something.

 

[electricfeel]

Chiropracty is for rejects who couldn't get into physiotherapy.

 

[Power King]

This is probably correct for private practice physio's, as they are aiming to make money.
If you see physio's in hospitals, they are actually trying to minimize the amount of visits to treat you, so as to maximize patient turnover, so will actually do all they can. Whereas private practice where you pay for each individual session, they are going to want you to have as many sessions as possible. It is more focussed on money making, however it is effective.

Yeah this. I have no problems with physio's because there is basis behind their occupation. I would never consider going to one unless I needed to, and never on week by week/month by month basis unless I had a chronic illness like CF or something.

The above posts are accurate. That's not to say that all physios working in private practice are money-hungry thieves, but the stereotype is understandable.

I'd be very interested to read what physiotherapists have to say about chiropractors and the work that they do.

On a side note, you could easily lump osteopathy, naturopathy and homeopathy into this type of thread.

What irks me about AM is when those that practice it don't educate their clients accurately about what the treatment is and the evidence behind it. I don't even want to think about whether they try to convince patients that it should take place of what the western medicine guidelines are for how to treat the condition in question. Benefit of the doubt I guess.

By all means try/recommend it, but don't let it interfere with the main man that is evidence based medicine.

 

[Aries]

Whilst i actually believe in some alternative medecine, i am of the belief chiropracty is absolutely worthless. Serious question marks over the intelligence of acquaintences who swear by them.

 

[woopedazz]

^ Good post Power King. I have nothing against alternative medicines with some form of proven results. The problem being that alternative medicine is called "Alternative Medicine" because it does not have any proven results.

That being said. People are free to make up their own minds and if I was placed in a position where Western Medicine would not help me I would turn to anything for a cure, no matter how crazy I thought it was. As long as people get given all the information and at least a subtle recommendation that they should see a doctor I have no problem. I have no problem with people believing what they want.

What I do have a problem with is people making up lies and purposefully avoiding the truth. I honestly thought there would be some pro-Chiropracty posters here that I could discuss legitimate trials with. I am happily proven wrong!

 

[Allbetsroff]

Chiropracty is as big a scam as Homeopathy. Though as the OP said Chiropracty has the risk of causing more damage, whereas homeopathy simply does nothing at all.

 

[BarneyBent]

The Placebo effect is still an effect.

 

[Allbetsroff]

The Placebo effect is still an effect.

Yes but it isn't the medicine doing it, it is the person. Something that is free can cause a placebo effect just as much as something that has a huge price tag on it.

 

[BarneyBent]

Yes but it isn't the medicine doing it, it is the person. Something that is free can cause a placebo effect just as much as something that has a huge price tag on it.

Ah yes, but, by having the price tag, a sense of legitimacy and value is (wrongly) attached to the treatment. Without this sense of legitimacy, the placebo effect wouldn't occur.

 

[WALL-e]

It's helped me at times, but I rate Myotherapy higher.

 

[Messenger]

As someone in the mainstream healthcare industry, I'm damn sure that chiropractic is a scam. The initial development of the "science" is errant nonsense. You can throw in the same boat as homeopathy, iridology, applied kiniesiology, et al.

Anyone interested in the scams that are alternative medicine should listen to Mark Crislip's Quackcasts. Mark is an infective diseases consultant and applies an evidence based medicine view to these medical falsehoods.

 

[deeman12]

I've spoken to a chiro mate about this and he feels very strongly about his field. I suffer from headaches quite often and he's told me that the neck is the source of the problem. He's managed to loosen my neck through a massage but I'm not game enough to get my neck cracked. Apparently there is a risk of stroke.

Didn't know that so many people held strong views in regards to this field.

 

[Lach72]

As someone in the mainstream healthcare industry, I'm damn sure that chiropractic is a scam. The initial development of the "science" is errant nonsense. You can throw in the same boat as homeopathy, iridology, kiniesiology, et al.

Anyone interested in the scams that are alternative medicine should listen to Mark Crislip's Quackcasts. Mark is an infective diseases consultant and applies an evidence based medicine view to these medical falsehoods.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilk_v._American_Medical_Association

Following a decade of litigation, the Seventh Circuit Court upheld the ruling by U.S. District Court Judge Susan Getzendanner that the AMA had engaged in a "lengthy, systematic, successful and unlawful boycott" designed to restrict cooperation between MDs and chiropractors in order to eliminate the profession of chiropractic.[4]

 

[Hard Ball Get]

Crooks, the lot of them.

 

[woopedazz]

Similar to Scientology Lach72?

 

[Lach72]

Similar to Scientology Lach72?

Someone should get the AMA on to this stat!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iatrogenesis

Iatrogenesis is a major phenomenon, and a severe risk to patients. A study carried out in 1981 more than one-third of illnesses of patients in a university hospital were iatrogenic, nearly one in ten were considered major, and in 2% of the patients, the iatrogenic disorder ended in death. Complications were most strongly associated with exposure to drugs and medications.[15] In another study, the main factors leading to problems were inadequate patient evaluation, lack of monitoring and follow-up, and failure to perform necessary tests.[citation needed]

In the United States, figures suggest estimated deaths per year of:

* 12,000 due to unnecessary surgery
* 7,000 due to medication errors in hospitals
* 20,000 due to other errors in hospitals
* 80,000 due to infections in hospitals
* 106,000 due to non-error, negative effects of drugs

Based on these figures, iatrogenesis may cause 225,000 deaths per year in the United States (excluding recognizable error). These estimates are lower than those in an earlier IOM report, which might suggest from 230,000 to 284,000 iatrogenic deaths.[citation needed] These figures are likely exaggerated, however, as they are based on recorded deaths in hospitals rather than in the general population. Even so, the large gap separating these estimates deaths from cerebrovascular disease would still suggest that iatrogenic illness constitutes the third leading cause of death in the United States, after deaths from heart disease and cancer. And these estimates are for fatalities only, and do not include nonfatal harms associated with disability or discomfort.

 

[woopedazz]

Someone should get the AMA on to this stat!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iatrogenesis

Do you have a stat on how many patients were cured of illness? The difference is modern medicine has proven results with side effects. Chiropracty has no proven results and side effects.

My point of view on these sorts of topics is this:

[YOUTUBE]bBUc_kATGgg[/YOUTUBE]

 

[swiftdog]

As someone in the mainstream healthcare industry, I'm damn sure that chiropractic is a scam. The initial development of the "science" is errant nonsense. You can throw in the same boat as homeopathy, iridology, kiniesiology, et al.

Anyone interested in the scams that are alternative medicine should listen to Mark Crislip's Quackcasts. Mark is an infective diseases consultant and applies an evidence based medicine view to these medical falsehoods.

Want to explain how kinesiology is a scam?

(Not to be confused with applied kinesiology)

 

[Lach72]

Do you have a stat on how many patients were cured of illness? The difference is modern medicine has proven results with side effects. Chiropracty has no proven results and side effects.

My point of view on these sorts of topics is this:

[YOUTUBE]bBUc_kATGgg[/YOUTUBE]

No I don't.
However you may ask yourself if those figures were replicated elsewhere eg Chiropractic, acupuncture, feng shui...whatever, people would be frothing at the mouth.

For back pain, I've found that most MD's I've been to don't know there arse from their elbow (Disclaimer: this is anectdotal and not a study sponsored by a drug company)...the good ones acknowledge that and will send people to a chiropractor. I've found that that those sent to chiropractors tend to get back to work quicker, within days not weeks, with less drugs. (From my experience watching staff with compo claims) That those who use MD's for back pain get sent to physios and are given extensive medication runs...

Anecdotally of course...

And the closed shop belief of those seeking alternatives to surgery and medication are not helped when the medical industry is seen as self serving.

http://www.nzma.org.nz/journal/121-1278/3158/

Here's an article attacking Chiropractic.
Written by a profeesor of pharmacolgy...from a department of Pharmocology...be interesting to see whether they get cash from drug companies...maybe I'm just cynical...and bugger me, if you couldn't find a squillion articles on drug **** ups that are "proven" safe in all sorts of studies up the wazoo and lo and behold, kids are born with no arms...

 

[Messenger]

Want to explain how kinesiology is a scam?

(Not to be confused with applied kinesiology)

My apologies. Applied kinesiology.