Chris Woakes

[ahhhhhh]

21 years old

46 FC matches

154 wickets @ 25

I know county is not as traditionally as strong as shield, but I think that really highlights the difference between current state of English and Australian cricket

 

[Grimwood]

A decent evening's work for a 21 year old debutant.

Not fast; not nasty, but he's got a very simple action and knows how to get a bit of swing and a bit of seam. Word is that he's rapidly developing as a batsman as well.

Another one to look at is James Harris. There's more second division cricket in his record, but I think he's the best young bowler in Britain. He made his debut at 16.

The weakness of county cricket ( thenumber of teams) can also be a stength as it lets guys like this get going early on.

 

[Kyptastic]

By comparison, our young fast bowling prospects of a similar age in Hazlewood, Pattinson and Starc have played 6, 4 and 11 first class matches respectively. Yes, they've all had injuries, but it does show you the advantages of the English system in some respects.

 

[ahhhhhh]

By comparison, our young fast bowling prospects of a similar age in Hazlewood, Pattinson and Starc have played 6, 4 and 11 first class matches respectively. Yes, they've all had injuries, but it does show you the advantages of the English system in some respects.

Exactly what I'm getting at.

 

[Wallaby]

Cue all the old arguments about bowling too much, playing same-old, same-old cricket day after day on the county scene.

While plenty of Aus batsmen have gone to county cricket for experience, not too many young bowlers have.

If playing lots of matches early is the key, why didn't it work for the poms in the last 20 years?

Good players will succeed in either format - Shield or County.

 

[BarneyBent]

A decent evening's work for a 21 year old debutant.

Not fast; not nasty, but he's got a very simple action and knows how to get a bit of swing and a bit of seam. Word is that he's rapidly developing as a batsman as well.

Another one to look at is James Harris. There's more second division cricket in his record, but I think he's the best young bowler in Britain. He made his debut at 16.

The weakness of county cricket ( thenumber of teams) can also be a stength as it lets guys like this get going early on.

Harris' record is VERY impressive for a 20 year old, Div 2 or not. Has played plenty of cricket too, so it doesn't seem that his body is giving him troubles. Why can't the promising young Australian quicks stay on the park?

 

[Jolldo87]

Wow, they are very impressive stats for both Harris and Woakes. Seems the English are developing their kids far quicker and with a much higher regularity than we are in Australia. The amount of quality fast bowler they played in the ashes and seem to have in reserve is quite ridiculous. I suggest we find out what they're doing and improve our system accordingly. Unfortunately there's not going to be a quick fix but the sooner we review and improve our whole system the better.

 

[The_Reaper]

Wow, they are very impressive stats for both Harris and Woakes. Seems the English are developing their kids far quicker and with a much higher regularity than we are in Australia. The amount of quality fast bowler they played in the ashes and seem to have in reserve is quite ridiculous. I suggest we find out what they're doing and improve our system accordingly. Unfortunately there's not going to be a quick fix but the sooner we review and improve our whole system the better.

Harris being fastracked has a lot to do with Glamorgan's general uselessness

 

[Jolldo87]

Harris being fastracked has a lot to do with Glamorgan's general uselessness

Ok, and has playing regular county matches meant he has developed quicker? (I guess the answer would be yes). So is the solution in Australia to add another domestic team? Canberra, would be my suggestion, allowing them the pick of the 2nd XI players and any others looking for a regular game to start their team. Does their need to be a rule in the sheffield shield which means teams have to play a certain amount of young players? Or is the system that is currently in place that has been successful for so long the right one and i'm just overreacting to a poor period in Australian cricket?

Clearly I've got alot of questions in the above ramblings and not many answers.

 

[ROSEMVP]

that is a great record for a young guy.

 

[BarneyBent]

Ok, and has playing regular county matches meant he has developed quicker? (I guess the answer would be yes). So is the solution in Australia to add another domestic team? Canberra, would be my suggestion, allowing them the pick of the 2nd XI players and any others looking for a regular game to start their team. Does their need to be a rule in the sheffield shield which means teams have to play a certain amount of young players? Or is the system that is in place been successful for so long and i'm just overreacting to a poor period in Australian cricket?

Clearly I've got alot of questions in the above ramblings and not many answers.

Perhaps introduce an ACT and Vic Country side (you would think ACT would essentially act as a NSW country side). ACT would play out of Manuka (obviously), Vic Country out of Geelong, Ballarat, etc. 8 teams, more exposure to young players, without drastically reducing the quality of the competition.

 

[ROSEMVP]

you will see a bunch of young bowlers coming through in all teams in the next 5 years.

 

[Jolldo87]

Perhaps introduce an ACT and Vic Country side (you would think ACT would essentially act as a NSW country side). ACT would play out of Manuka (obviously), Vic Country out of Geelong, Ballarat, etc. 8 teams, more exposure to young players, without drastically reducing the quality of the competition.

And ideally that would increase it to a 14 match competition. Doubt Cricket Australia would go for this as they seem to want to shorten the shield season for more T20's, not lengthen it.

Looking at the NSW 2nd XI when at full strength it really is good enough to be a shield side so I definitely agree that it wouldn't detract much from the quality.

 

[ROSEMVP]

if they were to add teams to the shield just add ACT imo.

 

[BarneyBent]

if they were to add teams to the shield just add ACT imo.

But that would create an uneven number of teams though. The Shield season is cramped enough as it is, we can't afford have byes in there.

Have ACT and Vic Country. 8 teams. The ACT team will be comprised of and supported largely by rural NSW people anyway (most people from around Canberra but in NSW support the Raiders and the Brumbies, it would be similar). You couldn't have both NSW Country and ACT, but Vic Country would work.

 

[Donnie Darko]

if they were to add teams to the shield just add ACT imo.

Northern Territory and ACT.
Then draw them into 2 separate 4 team groups.
The top of each group goes to the final .

Then add in some rule that a certain % of the team has to be young.

 

[BarneyBent]

And ideally that would increase it to a 14 match competition. Doubt Cricket Australia would go for this as they seem to want to shorten the shield season for more T20's, not lengthen it.

Looking at the NSW 2nd XI when at full strength it really is good enough to be a shield side so I definitely agree that it wouldn't detract much from the quality.

Absolutely. I'd love for FC cricket to be 5 day matches as well, to help in the development of spinners. Won't happen though. Damn logistics.

Although, now I think of it, and relating to my post above in response to ROSEMVP, perhaps 7 teams could work, given that the Shield season isn't structured in a strictly round-by-round fashion. Perhaps we could have 7 teams, and play 9 5-day matches (play three teams once, three teams twice). More would be ideal but it would never happen. That actually equates to more days of cricket, would encourage more "Test-like" batting throughout the match, and would give more encouragement to spinners, who I feel suffer greatly from not having a 5th day, especially in Australian conditions.

 

[ROSEMVP]

7 teams (add act)

12 5 Day Shield games + Final

6 One day games + Final

12 T20 Games + Final

 

[J Selwood14]

Northern Territory and ACT.
Then draw them into 2 separate 4 team groups.
The top of each group goes to the final .

Then add in some rule that a certain % of the team has to be young.

dont think an NT team would ever work, isnt it wet season during summer there?

 

[BarneyBent]

7 teams (add act)

12 5 Day Shield games + Final

6 One day games + Final

12 T20 Games + Final

Like the idea but it would never happen. 12 5-day Shield games will never get the go ahead. Better off going for 9 5-dayers.

 

[ROSEMVP]

why not?

they do it well enough in england. you can start the season in september and play games in regional areas.

i would love to see teams use smaller grounds for example

Bulls @ Alan Border Field
Blues @ North Sydney Over
Bushrangers @ Junction Oval

 

[BarneyBent]

why not?

they do it well enough in england. you can start the season in september and play games in regional areas.

i would love to see teams use smaller grounds for example

Bulls @ Alan Border Field
Blues @ North Sydney Over
Bushrangers @ Junction Oval

Because CA want to shorten the Shield season, not lengthen it. I'd love to see it, but I just can't see it happening.

 

[Phone]

queensland and wa are struggling to put out decent teams as it is we hardly need to be introducing new states teams. putting in a loan system of sorts would be better.

 

[BarneyBent]

queensland and wa are struggling to put out decent teams as it is we hardly need to be introducing new states teams. putting in a loan system of sorts would be better.

They are going through a personnel slump, it happens. They'll be right. If something systematic needs to be fixed, then address it. In the mean time, players are wasting away in the 2nd XIs of NSW and Victoria, when they should be playing FC cricket. They are good enough.

Bring in ACT, and maybe Vic Country. It won't be such a drastic change that the overall talent is weakened (it's not like you'll see talented players from WA or QLD jumping ship for more opportunities), but it will allow more talented players an opportunity to show their wares.

 

[The Passenger]

queensland and wa are struggling to put out decent teams as it is we hardly need to be introducing new states teams. putting in a loan system of sorts would be better.

i like the idea of a loan system.... i'm not a massive fan of players being able to play for two teams in the same competition and same season... but this could probably work.