Chuckers

[P76]

Just come across a recently published book "Chuckers : a history of throwing in Australian cricket" by Bernard Whimpress. Limited edition of 100 copies. Didn't have a chance to have a thorough look, but looks very comprehensive, with detailed examinations of every chucking incident in Aus, including Murali, Akhtar and Lee.

About 100 pages, author can be contacted at PO Box 403 Kent Town SA 5071

He lists five questions at the start of the book, which he states he will address -

1. Why has throwing, unlike overstepping, been regarded as cheating and something of a moral scourge?

2. Why has it led at various times to panic and righteous responses?

3. Why have some umpires become obsessed with the issue?

4. Why have some figures on the margins such as the Aboriginal bowlers and others like Murali seem to be unfairly singled out?

5. Is there any validity for cries of racism when the penalties meted to nonwhite bowlers accused of throwing have appeared disproportionate?

The thing that comes out from a quick look at the book is that throwing has been around a fair bit for a long time.....

 

[bperson745]

Chucking

Speaking of chucking, can someone define chucking for me, in plain English? I come from a baseball background and am still scratching my head over the controversies that come up with this. What's wrong with throwing?

 

[dr nick]

Re: Chucking

Originally posted by bperson745
Speaking of chucking, can someone define chucking for me, in plain English? I come from a baseball background and am still scratching my head over the controversies that come up with this. What's wrong with throwing?

it's illegal for a start. any mug can stand 20 metres away and chuck hooping outswingers or vicious off spinners.

quite simply, chucking is the straightening of the arm whilst the ball is released

 

[dr nick]

Re: Re: Chucking

Originally posted by nicko18
it's illegal for a start. any mug can stand 20 metres away and chuck hooping outswingers or vicious off spinners.

quite simply, chucking is the straightening of the arm whilst the ball is released

i also believe in the infancy of the game, the reason people bowled with a straight arm was to preserve the throwing shoulder.

 

[P76]

bperson, Nicko18 is absolutely right - pop down to the nets and try it yourself - if you chuck it is MUCH easier to bowl nasty deliveries, hence its illegality. That is one reason why Lee and Akhtar have been under the pump for their faster deliveries, people think "how can they bowl so fast" and of course straightening the arm helps get one through quicker.

I don't think Lee or Akhtar are chuckers, although my quicker one was very dubious towards the end of a long day

 

[Slax]

Chucking as defined by the ICC

Chucking or Throwing as it is called is:

The straightening of the arm as a bowler enters into their delivery action immediate prior to the ball being delivered.

This law is there to stop three things.
1. Excessive speed. A bowler chucking could easily achieve over 100mph (160kmh). Considering only 1 bowler has done this and his delivery is questionable and the only bowler to achieve over 95mph who every agreed was clean was Jeff Thompson (look at old tapes brillant windmill style).

2. Spin. It is much easier to achieve off-spin when throwing the ball. Try it and you'll see.

3. Swing. When throwing a ball the arm can move in a multitude of ways thus creating much more severe swing in the air.

 

[bperson745]

OK, I'm still confused, having never played the game. The arm can't be straight on delivery, but I'm also reading on a website that you can't bend your arm. So which is it? The arm is meant to be bent or straightened? You can't have both, can you?

 

[P76]

One can't straighten one's arm once it has started the delivery.
Therefore, if it's slightly bent as you begin to swing the arm over, it must stay bent (Murali does this).

There's nothing to say the arm can't be straight on delivery, in fact really unless you've got cactus arms like Murali it should be.

In practice calls for chucking would usually be if the arm straightens after it gets to about 11 or 12 o'clock in the actual delivery - although I'm willing to be corrected on this point.

 

[Perty4]

p76
did u get a chance to look at what he wrote about the ian meckiff incident in the 60's? would be an interesting read.

 

[Nige_Bix]

Did anyone watch the cricket show when they had that piece on Murali and it was explained how his action works because of his physiological factors?

It was obvious that Ian Healy hadn't seen it and was having a rethink and he said he wished that information could be passed onto the players!!

dzm

 

[Richmondfan#1]

Originally posted by dezzmo
Did anyone watch the cricket show when they had that piece on Murali and it was explained how his action works because of his physiological factors?

It was obvious that Ian Healy hadn't seen it and was having a rethink and he said he wished that information could be passed onto the players!!

dzm

I saw that. Yes, you could obviously tell that the story and facts got to Ian Healy.

Actually, it made me think about it all too. He has been examined by so many places, it can't be a conspiracy theory!

 

[Navy Master]

I think it is Oram from NZ, he bowls medium pace (high 120's), and it is a really really suspect action

 

[P76]

Originally posted by Perty4
p76
did u get a chance to look at what he wrote about the ian meckiff incident in the 60's? would be an interesting read.

His style is to quote newspaper articles of the time and then go into a bit of his own commentary. Basically his line throughout the book is a throw is a no-ball the same as overstepping. He cant work out why Richie didn't bowl him from the other end (apparently the other umpire - Hoy?- said later he would not have pinged him), as that is how captains in the past have got around it.

The VCA were strongly in favour of Meckiff continuing on in cricket apparently.

 

[Becker]

I don't understand why chucking is still an issue. In Muttiah, we have the most blatant example of a chucker, perhaps in the history of the game, and yet the ICC has chosen to do nothing about it.
For that reason I feel the whole issue of chucking should be put to bed forever. No umpire is allowed to call it, no umpire is prepared to report it, and if they do, no match referee is willing to do anything about it for fear of being labelled racist, etc.
In my mind the issue is dead.

 

[ramjet]

Originally posted by Becker
In Muttiah, we have the most blatant example of a chucker, perhaps in the history of the game...

incredible how some people choose to so blatantly overlook evidence. and these people could be on a jury...

 

[P76]

Yes, wonder if Becker has seen any of the footage of Murali - shame they didn't have it when Meckiff was around.

Perhaps one of the few instances when video has improved the game.

 

[dr nick]

Originally posted by ramjet
incredible how some people choose to so blatantly overlook evidence. and these people could be on a jury...

hahahaha

 

[Becker]

Originally posted by ramjet
incredible how some people choose to so blatantly overlook evidence. and these people could be on a jury...

If you are going to make a stupid comment, at least qualify it.

 

[Becker]

Originally posted by P76
Yes, wonder if Becker has seen any of the footage of Murali - shame they didn't have it when Meckiff was around.

Perhaps one of the few instances when video has improved the game.

Yes, I have seen planty of footage of Murali, and seen him bowl in the flesh. And you may be surprised to know there IS footage of Meckiff, and it has been shown over, and over, and over agian. Pity you missed it, but then you probably miss a lot of things.

 

[P76]

Originally posted by Becker
Yes, I have seen planty of footage of Murali, and seen him bowl in the flesh. And you may be surprised to know there IS footage of Meckiff, and it has been shown over, and over, and over agian. Pity you missed it, but then you probably miss a lot of things.

Sorry Becker, I should have made myself clear.

I was referring to the video taken of Murali at Hong Kong University when the whole thing blew up the first time, when they rigged him up with monitors and proved that he wasn't a chucker.

Let me know where I can see when/where they did this for Ian.

So, let's see, we have your opinion not backed by any facts that Murali is a chucker, vs. this (and other) studies that show he isn't.

So, "if you are going to make a stupid comment, at least qualify it." - right back at ya.

 

[Angus1]

Originally posted by P76

I was referring to the video taken of Murali at Hong Kong University when the whole thing blew up the first time, when they rigged him up with monitors and proved that he wasn't a chucker.

Let me know where I can see when/where they did this for Ian.

So, let's see, we have your opinion not backed by any facts that Murali is a chucker, vs. this (and other) studies that show he isn't.

Hang on a minute. Just because he doesn't chuck the ball all the time doesn't mean he doesn't chuck the ball occasionally. Every ball should be judged seperately not just judging a bowling action.
The same goes for Brett Lee. His action may be fine but every now and then he appears to chuck it.
Having played myself I can say that I also use to chuck every now and then. It happens on certain deliveries when you go for a little extra and maybe are feeling a bit tired. The arms slackens off a bit before it gets to the top then you give it your all and it straightens slightly. Although only slight it is still a chuck but I guess it depends how technical you want to get with it.
I could always tell when I chucked one, it seamed back in more. I doubt anyone noticed but in an international match well I guess you shouldn't be allowed to do it.

 

[P76]

Angus, you are right, I'm sure I used to chuck occasionally too for the same reasons (and 'cos of all that beer I used to drink....).

They did give Murali a good workover during the Hong Kong session, to see if it was a fatigue thing - remember Hairy called him soon after he came on, so in that particular case it wasn't due to that factor.

However, you raise a good point, and it goes back to the book that originally started this thread, where the author seems to think that chucking should have no more stigma attached to it than overstepping.

 

[Bomber Spirit]

Originally posted by Becker
I don't understand why chucking is still an issue. In Muttiah, we have the most blatant example of a chucker, perhaps in the history of the game, and yet the ICC has chosen to do nothing about it.
For that reason I feel the whole issue of chucking should be put to bed forever. No umpire is allowed to call it, no umpire is prepared to report it, and if they do, no match referee is willing to do anything about it for fear of being labelled racist, etc.
In my mind the issue is dead.

Murali's quite clearly a chucker. He'll never be called again, but that's more due to the umpire-shopping Sri Lankans creating diplomatic incidents than it is due to the MCC Laws of Cricket.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Don't worry P76 - I follow what you're saying.

Sheez, using their subjective rationale, bloody Warney could be a chucker ...??!!

 

[P76]

Thanks GOJJ.

I originally had strong doubts about Murali's action, but the evidence from the tests changed my mind - if Becker chooses to disregard that who am I to care?