Current Claremont Murders Discussion & Edwards trial updates

[Kurve]

So if back in the years not too long after the last of the alleged CSK murders, police were already asking questions about the CSK dressing up in womens clothing.

So it appears that at least one WAPOL officer had knowledge way back then, way back when apparently the now accused BRE was not on their radar and had never been on the radar (whatever the radar is).

Agree. That kind of question does not come out of nowhere.

 

[Girlnextdoor]

According to the latest CSK Podcast, BRE's 2nd wife knew about his preference for dressing in women's clothing. And a very telling part of the interview on the Podcast between Interviewer Gary Adshead and Legal Affairs Editor for "West Australian" Tim Clarke:
Tim: "You don't go into a sex offenders programme and then just walk off into the night with no one keeping tabs on you."
Gary: "Or do you?"
Also admissible in the trial will be the Psych report on BRE regarding the Hollywood Hospital attack, won't that make for fascinating reading (and no doubt infuriating, given BRE's alleged escalating behaviour)?

 

[luxury]

it does seem peculiar of the questions asked at an early time in the investigation
there certainly must be a adequate motive for this
all i cant think of is possibly an earlier suspect was a transgender type and it was taken from there
and how it is we are shown all photo's of the accused from more recent times(imo he tried to forget every thing and erase his mind and move on)
be really good to see how he looked (around time of this controversy)
say mid 1990's
what do you think

 

[luxury]

Chuck magnetic taxi stickers on the doors. Off you go.

Both Camry and Commodore station wagons in white used as taxis.

i had also thought of taxi like mag stickers
but where do you obtain such items
i am pretty sure his ebay account history was picked like seagulls after left over sandwiches
fabricators of local
or perhaps
this is some more evidence the state has
yet to come to light
interesting

 

[BonzaRam]

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa...-williams-ng-81fd39cd0a6663dd0f0954f98dfbf30c





So if back in the years not too long after the last of the alleged CSK murders, police were already asking questions about the CSK dressing up in womens clothing.

So it appears that at least one WAPOL officer had knowledge way back then, way back when apparently the now accused BRE was not on their radar and had never been on the radar (whatever the radar is).

Seeing as how there has not yet been any pre-trial information publicly released, that provides an explanation as to how at least one Police officer was following a lead about the CSK being someone that wore women's clothing, unless witnesses are presented during a CSK trial, that make it clear as to how Police would have had this women's clothing lead, there will forever be a huge question as to whether someone did indeed provide WA Police with some form of information about BRE early on. Information related to the CSK being someone who liked to dress up in women's clothing, from someone who knew who the CSK was or probably was, or who had been told by someone else who the CSK was or probably was.

I would expect the Huntingdale Prowler, at least, was looked at as a possible suspect in the course of the investigations, it's not such a stretch to consider a possible crossdresser as part of the scenario from that point of view. Bearing in mind at that point there were no connections, just suspicions...

 

[BFew]

all i cant think of is possibly an earlier suspect was a transgender type and it was taken from there

Or it could have been as simple as one Policeman thinking that maybe the CSK was dressed up as women to assist convince one or more of the missing women to get into his vehicle, without there being any specific CSK suspect in mind at that stage (apart from Lance Williams), or without anyone reporting a man dressed as a women driving around the area offering lifts.

 

[GreyCrow]

The timelines are out a bit.

I'm not really sure Huntingdale was looked at. Maybe Karakatta and not HH. Was womens clothing a feature of Karakatta? The other suggestion raised by BFew is also valid

 

[BFew]

Just because a man is known to dress up in women's clothing, does not necessarily increase the probability that if that same man was to try and lure women into his car, under false pretences, that he would likely dress up as a women in order to try and increase his hit rate or the type of women he could lure into his car.

In my opinion, it's more likely a known cross dresser, would more easily be remember by witnesses if he committed crimes whilst cross dressing.

The current accused might well prove to be a good example of this, as he is alleged to have regularly dressed up in womens clothing for a number of decades, yet does not appear to have dressed up in women's clothing during any of the alleged incidents related to the CSK, or other incidents that the prosecution appears to have lined up for the trial, that have been publicly revealed so far as part of the pre-trial hearings.

 

[BonzaRam]

The reason i think it may have been is because when all us taxi drivers had to go in to give a DNA swab and fingerprints during the course of of it all i was told that hey had partial palm and fingerprints. It wasn't until all the propensity was revealed a few weeks ago i thought about that again. From that we know they did have a partial print set but from the Huntingdale crimes not the CSK crimes. That tells me that the prowler was at least considered, or perhaps all the prints taken were checked against old cases to eliminate suspects from them also.

Either way it is just an experience i had during the course of this saga and could also mean absolutely nothing, like much of i what have heard about it.

 

[luxury]

The reason i think it may have been is because when all us taxi drivers had to go in to give a DNA swab and fingerprints during the course of of it all i was told that hey had partial palm and fingerprints. It wasn't until all the propensity was revealed a few weeks ago i thought about that again. From that we know they did have a partial print set but from the Huntingdale crimes not the CSK crimes. That tells me that the prowler was at least considered, or perhaps all the prints taken were checked against old cases to eliminate suspects from them also.

Either way it is just an experience i had during the course of this saga and could also mean absolutely nothing, like much of i what have heard about it.

excuse me BonzaRam
just like to ask a question
in your experience
could there of been in any way
a taxi lending service(i mean lend your car for a night)
and also how was fares paid back in the mid 90's
did you have to carry change(coins)
and where was this(coins) if applicable obtained

 

[BFew]

when all us taxi drivers had to go in to give a DNA swab and fingerprints during the course of of it all i was told that hey had partial palm and fingerprints.

Did they take your palm prints as well?

Edit: Also do you know if they told any other taxi drivers about the partial palm and fingerprints?

 

[Girlnextdoor]

Just something to bare in mind about men who "cross-dress", also known as "transvestites".
Here's how the famous (and I think, fabulous) comedian Eddie Izzard explains his cross-dressing:

"Although he began cross-dressing in his teens, and still continues to do so, Eddie is heterosexual."

"Eddie claims he knew he was transgender at the age of four when he saw a boy being forced to wear a dress by his sisters."

https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/3917496/eddie-izzard-marathons-married-jeremy-corbyn-labour/

It's more common than what many people think!

 

[Willow weeps]

i am glad you cleared LW
yeah
i don't know surely people can make a clear and precise (correct)judgement of a man who is a pretending to be a woman
may be not

Trust me, not all transgender people look like a man in drag. A lot are very convincing. I don't see BRE being very convincing though but hey, if you've had a few too many drinks, he could have looked like a real female

 

[Willow weeps]

The reason i think it may have been is because when all us taxi drivers had to go in to give a DNA swab and fingerprints during the course of of it all i was told that hey had partial palm and fingerprints. It wasn't until all the propensity was revealed a few weeks ago i thought about that again. From that we know they did have a partial print set but from the Huntingdale crimes not the CSK crimes. That tells me that the prowler was at least considered, or perhaps all the prints taken were checked against old cases to eliminate suspects from them also.

Either way it is just an experience i had during the course of this saga and could also mean absolutely nothing, like much of i what have heard about it.

Hey BonzaRam did you know Claire, a Transgender taxi driver who lived in Darlington?

 

[BonzaRam]

Umm ok, In regards to taxis in Perth i cannot comment on specifics on the goings on in the industry, although I held a taxi license whilst living in Perth I never drove taxis in Perth. Regardless i was still asked to give the requested samples (I understand why) so went through the process...

In regards to what may have been told to others i cannot say, i was speaking with the technician taking my samples only.

"a taxi lending service(i mean lend your car for a night)" Having a Taxi License is not the same as having Taxi Registration Plates. Someone who owns the "Plate License" can hire as many taxis drivers as need to keep the vehicle running around the clock so yes one taxi can be shared by many drivers.

The vast majority of fares where paid in cash back then and yes you needed to carry change of all denominations.

No i didn't know any Perth Taxi Drivers personally Willow Weeps.

 

[luxury]

Umm ok, In regards to taxis in Perth i cannot comment on specifics on the goings on in the industry, although I held a taxi license whilst living in Perth I never drove taxis in Perth. Regardless i was still asked to give the requested samples (I understand why) so went through the process...

In regards to what may have been told to others i cannot say, i was speaking with the technician taking my samples only.

"a taxi lending service(i mean lend your car for a night)" Having a Taxi License is not the same as having Taxi Registration Plates. Someone who owns the "Plate License" can hire as many taxis drivers as need to keep the vehicle running around the clock so yes one taxi can be shared by many drivers.

The vast majority of fares where paid in cash back then and yes you needed to carry change of all denominations.

No i didn't know any Perth Taxi Drivers personally Willow Weeps.

thank you for all honesty BonzaRam

 

[Spinnaker]

yes
Spinnaker
there was once a taxi driver
who found a woman who had been beat to bad
i think parkwood
if memory is my friend tonight
anyway
this photo of this man
can not find this info on the net anymore(its been 6 months tho)but to no avail
almost looks the same as this taxi driver
Could Steve be his name

Here’s the article:

 

[tapdancingbear]

With the latest talk about taxi drivers I may as well throw my 2 bobs worth in .. I don't think a taxi driver was seriously considered as a suspect , I think it was more a case of being seen to be doing something
I was working in security at the time and the talk was it was likely to be a Security Guard , Taxi Driver or Police Officer someone who had reason to be on the streets at that time of night without raising suspicion , and who people may have felt safe with

As its turned out it was all wrong … and from what I have seen recently re the trial , the Telstra living witness statements are about a Telstra Vehicle not a taxi , why the talk about taxis now

 

[BlueE]

The reason i think it may have been is because when all us taxi drivers had to go in to give a DNA swab and fingerprints during the course of of it all i was told that hey had partial palm and fingerprints. It wasn't until all the propensity was revealed a few weeks ago i thought about that again. From that we know they did have a partial print set but from the Huntingdale crimes not the CSK crimes. That tells me that the prowler was at least considered, or perhaps all the prints taken were checked against old cases to eliminate suspects from them also.

Either way it is just an experience i had during the course of this saga and could also mean absolutely nothing, like much of i what have heard about it.

This is a very interesting transcript of an ABC programme on CSK in June 2000. Goes into detail about the lie detector test that Lance supposedly failed and how Macro leaked this to the ABC TV to put pressure on him.

DNA samples taken from 3,500 cabbies on the cab drivers instigation. Not once was anything about a Telstra man being suspected.

Most of Perth's 3500 cab drivers provided mouth swab samples over Easter 1997, just after Ciara Glennon's body was found. Police strongly suspected a cab driver was responsible for the murders, and repeatedly said so.

Faced with a massive decline in business and the odium that they were harbouring a serial killer in their midst, cab drivers were desperate for a way to restore confidence in their industry. DNA screening seemed to be the answer.

However Caporn refused to say whether they had DNA samples to compare it with (they didn't until something was found after the Scamm review in 2004), and said DNA was being collected in case any future crimes were committed. There is also a discussion with experts about how DNA degrades quickly when in the open.

Gerald Tooth: Did you collect DNA evidence from the crime scenes that could be used to identify the killer?

David Caporn: Obviously I can't go down that path. I've never said what we did or didn't obtain from the crime scenes. What I have said, and I'll confirm it now, is that they weren't the most prolific crime scenes as far as evidence goes. That's about as much as I'm going to say.

Gerald Tooth: Why did you take DNA material from your prime suspect and from Perth cabdrivers if you had nothing to test against?

David Caporn: I've never said we had nothing to test against, and I've also never said that we had. Look, I mean the bottom line is that we're not trying to be cute, the fact is that when we go down the path of investigating a serial crime we're not only dealing with crimes in the past, but the possibility of crimes in the future. When you're dealing with a serial case, it's a little different from a case where you've got a one hour investigation, it's a live happening thing, and you've not only got to prepare yourself for what's happening behind you, but what might happen in front of you.

Gerald Tooth: In other words, the West Australian Police, having obtained DNA profiles from those who volunteered samples for the purpose of clearing their names, are holding on to them for an entirely different purpose. That is, for identification in any future murder.

Meanwhile the cab drivers and Lance wait in anticipation that their names will be cleared. Unless there is another murder it could be a long wait.

https://www.abc.net.au/radionationa...onvictions---the-claremont/3473202#transcript

 

[Girlnextdoor]

This is a very interesting transcript of an ABC programme on CSK in June 2000. Goes into detail about the lie detector test that Lance supposedly failed and how Macro leaked this to the ABC TV to put pressure on him.

DNA samples taken from 3,500 cabbies on the cab drivers instigation. Not once was anything about a Telstra man being suspected.

Most of Perth's 3500 cab drivers provided mouth swab samples over Easter 1997, just after Ciara Glennon's body was found. Police strongly suspected a cab driver was responsible for the murders, and repeatedly said so.

Faced with a massive decline in business and the odium that they were harbouring a serial killer in their midst, cab drivers were desperate for a way to restore confidence in their industry. DNA screening seemed to be the answer.

However Caporn refused to say whether they had DNA samples to compare it with (they didn't until something was found after the Scamm review in 2004), and said DNA was being collected in case any future crimes were committed. There is also a discussion with experts about how DNA degrades quickly when in the open.

Gerald Tooth: Did you collect DNA evidence from the crime scenes that could be used to identify the killer?

David Caporn: Obviously I can't go down that path. I've never said what we did or didn't obtain from the crime scenes. What I have said, and I'll confirm it now, is that they weren't the most prolific crime scenes as far as evidence goes. That's about as much as I'm going to say.

Gerald Tooth: Why did you take DNA material from your prime suspect and from Perth cabdrivers if you had nothing to test against?

David Caporn: I've never said we had nothing to test against, and I've also never said that we had. Look, I mean the bottom line is that we're not trying to be cute, the fact is that when we go down the path of investigating a serial crime we're not only dealing with crimes in the past, but the possibility of crimes in the future. When you're dealing with a serial case, it's a little different from a case where you've got a one hour investigation, it's a live happening thing, and you've not only got to prepare yourself for what's happening behind you, but what might happen in front of you.

Gerald Tooth: In other words, the West Australian Police, having obtained DNA profiles from those who volunteered samples for the purpose of clearing their names, are holding on to them for an entirely different purpose. That is, for identification in any future murder.

Meanwhile the cab drivers and Lance wait in anticipation that their names will be cleared. Unless there is another murder it could be a long wait.

https://www.abc.net.au/radionationa...onvictions---the-claremont/3473202#transcript

Good to look back on this time BlueE, thanks for sharing. Very chilling when you read between the lines of Caporn's comments, sort of : We're just waiting for the next murder, (we're pretty sure they'll be one) and we'll be better prepared then. We have SOME DNA but it's fairly low grade, so that might help. Scary stuff! He did say he wasn't "trying to be cute", so that's always good to know, hey?

 

[BlueE]

Good to look back on this time BlueE, thanks for sharing. Very chilling when you read between the lines of Caporn's comments, sort of : We're just waiting for the next murder, (we're pretty sure they'll be one) and we'll be better prepared then. We have SOME DNA but it's fairly low grade, so that might help. Scary stuff! He did say he wasn't "trying to be cute", so that's always good to know, hey?

David Caporn: I've never said we had nothing to test against, and I've also never said that we had.

They hadn't found any DNA by 2000. But he wasn't admitting that. I guess he thought if the taxi drivers are offering he wouldn't refuse.

There is lots of other interesting details.

West Australian Police are convinced the crimes were all committed by one individual, a serial killer.

They have also told Background Briefing that they believe that another disappearance, that of 22-year-old Julie Cutler almost a decade earlier, in 1988, is connected.

 

[BlueE]

With the latest talk about taxi drivers I may as well throw my 2 bobs worth in .. I don't think a taxi driver was seriously considered as a suspect , I think it was more a case of being seen to be doing something
I was working in security at the time and the talk was it was likely to be a Security Guard , Taxi Driver or Police Officer someone who had reason to be on the streets at that time of night without raising suspicion , and who people may have felt safe with

As its turned out it was all wrong … and from what I have seen recently re the trial , the Telstra living witness statements are about a Telstra Vehicle not a taxi , why the talk about taxis now

The link I just posted, transcript of radio interviews from 2000 claims they were told by Macro though Julie Cutler's disappearance was related. The Post has the long article claiming a bouncer at the Racquet club admitted to killing her. A statement was made to cops at the time so it's unusual that bouncers didn't come under more scrutiny.

Are you aware of any suspicions the cops might have had about bouncers? Is it possible cops were moonlighting as bouncers or maybe Telstra man was or had friends that were bouncers?

 

[Girlnextdoor]

The link I just posted, transcript of radio interviews from 2000 claims they were told by Macro though Julie Cutler's disappearance was related. The Post has the long article claiming a bouncer at the Racquet club admitted to killing her. A statement was made to cops at the time so it's unusual that bouncers didn't come under more scrutiny.

Are you aware of any suspicions the cops might have had about bouncers? Is it possible cops were moonlighting as bouncers or maybe Telstra man was or had friends that were bouncers?

The bouncer angle has been discussed quite a bit previously. I remember seeing this in a re-enactment about Sarah's disappearance (Bolded by me):
"It was January 27, 1996, and as 18-year-old Sarah descended the nightclub’s stairs alone, she stopped and chatted briefly with the doorman before heading to a nearby phone box to book her ride to South Perth."

https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/the-...-from-a-claremont-street-corner-ng-b88337785z

Was it a bouncer/doorman the Mystery Man that Jane Rimmer was seen on CCTV talking to just before she disappeared? These doormen/bouncer blokes were certainly trusted in those days by women, seen as there to protect them if guys were annoying you or got violent. Very possible Telstra man could have moonlighted as a bouncer, or was getting/paying for "inside information" from a bouncer friend when an attractive woman was leaving?

 

[Krusty Crab]

The reason i think it may have been is because when all us taxi drivers had to go in to give a DNA swab and fingerprints during the course of of it all i was told that hey had partial palm and fingerprints. It wasn't until all the propensity was revealed a few weeks ago i thought about that again. From that we know they did have a partial print set but from the Huntingdale crimes not the CSK crimes. That tells me that the prowler was at least considered, or perhaps all the prints taken were checked against old cases to eliminate suspects from them also.

Either way it is just an experience i had during the course of this saga and could also mean absolutely nothing, like much of i what have heard about it.

so if they had partial palm and fingerprints back then, where did they come from? if they were from the huntingdale prowler series, then when they ran them they would of flagged for the 1990 Hollywood hospital arrest. if they are from the Hollywood hospital arrest then they already had a name, and running the prints would of highlighted huntingdale. so either way the cops end up with the Hollywood incident, a name, and a strong indication of who the huntingdale prowler was. if the cops had been doing their job properly then all this seems like a likely scenario. just one issue - BRE wasn't arrested.

So if the cops having the fingerprints back then is true, and BRE wasn't arrested, that opens a huge can of peas. why wasn't he arrested? even if he couldn't be linked to the csk back then, they would of been able to get a decent case for the huntingdale prowling, attempted rape, break and enters, and assault of the woman he attacked after leaping from the toilet. Not to mention why would they center on LW, and why did it take until the schramm review to highlight all the telstra coincidences, when the cops would of known BRE was telstra?

is it possible the cops told you at the time they had fingerprints to placate the people giving the samples that it wasn't for other means, present an image to the public that they had a handle on the crimes, and try to put a scare into the perpetrator that they had something on him to flush him out? is it possible they said they had fingerprints, and over time and after reading numerous reports of partial palm prints and fingerprints, your mind is now remembering it as that was what was said?

 

[tapdancingbear]

The link I just posted, transcript of radio interviews from 2000 claims they were told by Macro though Julie Cutler's disappearance was related. The Post has the long article claiming a bouncer at the Racquet club admitted to killing her. A statement was made to cops at the time so it's unusual that bouncers didn't come under more scrutiny.

Are you aware of any suspicions the cops might have had about bouncers? Is it possible cops were moonlighting as bouncers or maybe Telstra man was or had friends that were bouncers?

I should correct what I said , The Security angle as suspects was mainly aimed at mobile security guards , Uniforms marked cars , no apparent threat ... The bouncer bit was considered ... I used to work with a guy at the Newport Hotel and the Trade Winds that worked for Telstra in the late 80s / early 90s , I'm not sure where else he worked as I stuck pretty much to Fremantle at the time
Cops as bouncers was rare in Perth I think , I cannot think of one , common in Melbourne though in the 70s