Clarification required.

[the ranger]

Cousins I wouldn't want either... but thats the quality that will be on offer this year.

We get pick 1 regardless where we finnish if we dont win another game. Them are the rules.

But we have to play a few teams that might also be trying to tank. Do you really want to see your team involved in such a farce?

Would you hand back Cotchin?

Obviously, I wouldn't hand back Cotchin. We deserved to get him because we were the worst team in the league.

The Fijian sounds like he is going to be better than Kruezer and heaven knows might be another Buddy.

I would love to get him, but not at the price we would have to pay (deliberately losing for the rest of the season). Especially if it came down to round 22 and Melbourne also had a PP on the line.

Tanking gets us the 2 best kids in the country if we finnish last.

I think you are greatly undervaluing the prize for finishing last.

Since it became the AFL (18 years ago), no Victorian team has won a spoon and then won a flag in a later season. Finishing last doesn't help you win premierships. The only teams that have gone from last to premiers in the modern era are Sydney (spoons in 92, 93, 94, flag in 05) and Brisbane (spoon in 98, flags in 01, 02, 03). Both teams had more of a helping hand than just the draft.

 

[sante]

Would you rather see our young footballers playing and losing or our senior footballers playing and losing?

Rather see the team win. Don't care who plays. Hyde, Pettifer and Tivendale are the only seniors who are in trouble. These 3 don't mean we need another priority pick.

 

[beaver fever]

Ranger I'm not sure you understand what tanking is. Tanking is not telling the players to lose. That is not possible. Tanking is giving games to the young players and not the senior guys who are more likely to get a team a win. It is also resting senior players that perhaps don't need it or getting them into the surgery earlier then they may need it.

 

[nut]

Well we have invested in recruitment and list management, so if we are serious about improving we need to take the national draft seriously. Upgrading our picks should be a priority, but I'd like to see this trade:
Pick 20 + Edwards = Pick 10 or something like that and then use pick 10 on a quality tall. Do we have the balls to make a trade like that?

It's all about bringing in quality young players and seeing if they are good enough. If not, then move on. It needs to follow a long-term list management plan. Considering our lack of talls, we need to bring in more then what we have. 15 or so 190+cm is not enough. It leaves us too vulnerable when a tall doesn't make it.

I agree. And I think the club realises that hence the extra spending. We have got Talent at the club now that would attract other clubs. But the previous few years we have nothing of value to trade so developing what we had was the key.

 

[the ranger]

Rubbish post. The number 1 PSD pick provides a club with a massive advantage come trading period, and is the reason we got Mitch Morton so cheap.

Sure pick 5-7 will bring us a quality player, but if you want to use your argument that the top 5 can still be a dud, wouldn't 2 top 5 picks increase the odds of picking a 200+ gamer? Regardless we can be almost 100% sure 2 of this years top 5 will bring real quality to our list.

We got Morton and McMahon for picks 19 and 35. It seemed good at the time, but doesn't look so great at the moment. If that's the leverage that you get for having pick one in the PSD, I'm not impressed. Also consider that no-one is going to want to play for us if we lose 13 straight to finish the season.

 

[beaver fever]

Rather see the team win. Don't care who plays. Hyde, Pettifer and Tivendale are the only seniors who are in trouble. These 3 don't mean we need another priority pick.

Well I want my club to win premierships not meaningless games. I'm prepared to see our team lose as long as there is hope, and that hope comes from our young players, not the tried and true older blokes that aren't good enough.

We don't have the cattle to win premierships and the only way to get it is through the national draft. The earlier the picks and the more of them the better position the club is to bring quality players into the list. Currently at least half our list has big question marks over them. We simply need more.

 

[beaver fever]

We got Morton and McMahon for picks 19 and 35. It seemed good at the time, but doesn't look so great at the moment. If that's the leverage that you get for having pick one in the PSD, I'm not impressed. Also consider that no-one is going to want to play for us if we lose 13 straight to finish the season.

The McMahon trade I agree, a complete farce and should never have been allowed. Morton though seems the goods and was worth at least a high 2nd rounder IMO.

You make a good point regarding no-one wanting to play for us, but I still think the #1 PSD is very useful, such as forcing geelong to cough up 2 1st rounders for Ottens.

 

[Heisenberg_]

Even if we were too lose every game this year we still may not get picks 1,2 btw. Because if Melbourne stayed on 2 wins then we'd have 1,3 just so you understand that.

I dont think it is a realistic possibility anyway we will have to just use all our picks and grow organically.

wrong.
they won 5 games last year. You have ti finish with 16 points or less two years in a row, if they remain on two wins and we lose every game we will get pick 1 and 3 or 4, they get pick 2 and 19

 

[Heisenberg_]

Rather see the team win. Don't care who plays. Hyde, Pettifer and Tivendale are the only seniors who are in trouble. These 3 don't mean we need another priority pick.

Say we lose the next ten matches.
Would you then like to see us win in rd 22 and get pick 2, or lose and get pick 1 and 2.

I don't think it is going to get to this though

 

[beaver fever]

wrong.
they won 5 games last year. You have ti finish with 16 points or less two years in a row, if they remain on two wins and we lose every game we will get pick 1 and 3 or 4, they get pick 2 and 19

You aren't contradicting him, that's what we said.

 

[CoggaRules]

wrong.
they won 5 games last year. You have ti finish with 16 points or less two years in a row, if they remain on two wins and we lose every game we will get pick 1 and 3 or 4, they get pick 2 and 19

so basically it all boils down to this week..Dont ____ it up TW..

 

[nut]

If the season stopped right now we get pick 1. We can draw 1 more game and still get pick 1.

If we win 1 more than Tanking becomes a non issue and we may as well try to win every game.

It all comes down to the Melbourne game IMO. If we loose then we should TANK at ALL cost. If we win then it's a nothing season and we wait for next season.

 

[nut]

so basically it all boils down to this week..Dont ____ it up TW..

Exactly.

 

[Heisenberg_]

You aren't contradicting him, that's what we said.

im a dumb shit, totally misread that
All this talk of tanking isn't good for you, however if we lose this week, ____ it PP FTW

 

[the ranger]

Ranger I'm not sure you understand what tanking is. Tanking is not telling the players to lose. That is not possible. Tanking is giving games to the young players and not the senior guys who are more likely to get a team a win. It is also resting senior players that perhaps don't need it or getting them into the surgery earlier then they may need it.

Our young players would still get us a win or two unless we were sabotaging our own chances of winning by playing them out of position with poor tactics. I've got nothing against us playing the young guys instead of the Tivendales and Bowdens. I just don't want to see us dragging our potential match-winners or resting guys like Richo and Brown for bullshit reasons.

We need to lose every game to get a PP and I don't think that's likely unless we deliberately lose. And I don't want my team to stoop to that.

 

[sante]

Say we lose the next ten matches.
Would you then like to see us win in rd 22 and get pick 2, or lose and get pick 1 and 2.

I don't think it is going to get to this though

If it came to that, then lose. But its ROUND 11. Our draw is a lot easier
from now on.

What if, we win 7 of the next 10? Will you want us to win Round 22 to play finals and will you agree that we have improved and don't need a priority pick?

So, Melbourne are tanking, yeah? If they are, they will lose this weekend.

 

[beaver fever]

im a dumb shit, totally misread that
All this talk of tanking isn't good for you, however if we lose this week, ____ it PP FTW

Understandable, we're all feeling a bit shit. I've noticed I have been prone to get annoyed very quickly this week by mundane things. Probably a link between supporting for Richmond and a heightened blood pressure.

 

[beaver fever]

Our young players would still get us a win or two unless we were sabotaging our own chances of winning by playing them out of position with poor tactics. I've got nothing against us playing the young guys instead of the Tivendales and Bowdens. I just don't want to see us dragging our potential match-winners or resting guys like Richo and Brown for bullshit reasons.

We need to lose every game to get a PP and I don't think that's likely unless we deliberately lose. And I don't want my team to stoop to that.

Yeah you are probably right, but our chances of winning would be much smaller. Look at the Essendon game. We were hopeless but still managed to win because players like pettifer could take advantage of an undisciplined team.

 

[NQTIGER]

FFS we have stooped to Carltons level TANKING or even thinking about it, get real we need to get rid of the easybeats culture.


And who is to say the AFL wont change the rules mid season and really FCUK us up?????

 

[beaver fever]

FFS we have stooped to Carltons level TANKING or even thinking about it, get real we need to get rid of the easybeats culture.


And who is to say the AFL wont change the rules mid season and really FCUK us up?????

Kruezer and Judd have looked pretty good this season, no?

 

[CoggaRules]

If it came to that, then lose. But its ROUND 11. Our draw is a lot easier
from now on.

What if, we win 7 of the next 10? Will you want us to win Round 22 to play finals and will you agree that we have improved and don't need a priority pick?

So, Melbourne are tanking, yeah? If they are, they will lose this weekend.

i cant understand people that really dont see through the fog. What use if anything will it be if we get there by default? Like what possible use apart from saving reputatiions in and out of the coaches box can it be? This winning culture shit is complete shit. Winning culture is coming into a season and stringing 4 or 5 wins on the trot and then win away to a Crows team, which you never dreamt of doing and then ending up one game from the big one, like we did in 95. This oh its an easier ____ing draw shit, means sweet ____ all.

 

[sante]

i cant understand people that really dont see through the fog. What use if anything will it be if we get there by default? Like what possible use apart from saving reputatiions in and out of the coaches box can it be? This winning culture shit is complete shit. Winning culture is coming into a season and stringing 4 or 5 wins on the trot and then win away to a Crows team, which you never dreamt of doing and then ending up one game from the big one, like we did in 95. This oh its an easier ____ing draw shit, means sweet ____ all.

Tanking means SFA too. When did Geelong, WCE, Port and Brisbane tank?

What do you think another year of losing/finish bottom 4 will do for players like Deledio/Tambling/Cotchin? They'll probably leave the club. No one wants to play in an unsuccessful club.

 

[beaver fever]

Tanking means SFA too. When did Geelong, WCE, Port and Brisbane tank?

Their lists were good enough not to need it. Ours and Carlton's however......

 

[Bruce Monteath]

FFS we have stooped to Carltons level TANKING or even thinking about it, get real we need to get rid of the easybeats culture.

Best way to get rid of the easybeats culture is to draft some decent players - just ask Hawthorn, Doggies & Cartlon. What is the most logical way to go about this with the highest degree of success...

 

[tugga]

Their lists were good enough not to need it. Ours and Carlton's however......

Bingo. Geelong's 'horror' year still had them finishing 10th.
Brisbane still had a power midfield when they 'slipped' to the also rans.
Port never had to rebuild. The base was already there.
West Coast is in a bit of trouble at the moment, but still has a reasonable spine.