Cleanout Time with the tall timber

[Timmy from Thomastown]

The end of this season will be testing for the recruiting staff, as a lot of our underperforming talls will be turfed out. The problem is that we have so many of them that some will be given a reprieve - theres simply too many to turn over in one season. The question is what to do? How many do we keep for one more year, and which ones? The problem players are:

Hall
C Cloke
J Cloke
Walker
Wakelin
Fanning
Richards.

I think its a real dilemma because I'm begining to doubt that any of them have a future beyond this season (apologies to Wakes for putting him into this group). Talls take time but how much time? But if they all get delisted, we are very thin for rucks and defenders.

(ps Mark, lets not make this another McKee thread and think forwards instead of backwards for once).

 

[Bojangles17]

The end of this season will be testing for the recruiting staff, as a lot of our underperforming talls will be turfed out. The problem is that we have so many of them that some will be given a reprieve - theres simply too many to turn over in one season. The question is what to do? How many do we keep for one more year, and which ones? The problem players are:

Hall
C Cloke
J Cloke
Walker
Wakelin
Fanning
Richards.

I think its a real dilemma because I'm begining to doubt that any of them have a future beyond this season (apologies to Wakes for putting him into this group). Talls take time but how much time? But if they all get delisted, we are very thin for rucks and defenders.

(ps Mark, lets not make this another McKee thread and think forwards instead of backwards for once).

geez, some of them make Billy Morrison look like a ready made champ

 

[strav]

The end of this season will be testing for the recruiting staff, as a lot of our underperforming talls will be turfed out. The problem is that we have so many of them that some will be given a reprieve - theres simply too many to turn over in one season. The question is what to do? How many do we keep for one more year, and which ones? The problem players are:

Hall
C Cloke
J Cloke
Walker
Wakelin
Fanning
Richards.

I think its a real dilemma because I'm begining to doubt that any of them have a future beyond this season (apologies to Wakes for putting him into this group). Talls take time but how much time? But if they all get delisted, we are very thin for rucks and defenders.

(ps Mark, lets not make this another McKee thread and think forwards instead of backwards for once).

You should add Tarrant to the list.

Seriously, its about time someone from Collingwood recognised the number of Hacks consistantly getting a game every week. True pretenders.

 

[twaters]

The end of this season will be testing for the recruiting staff, as a lot of our underperforming talls will be turfed out. The problem is that we have so many of them that some will be given a reprieve - theres simply too many to turn over in one season. The question is what to do? How many do we keep for one more year, and which ones? The problem players are:

Hall
C Cloke
J Cloke
Walker
Wakelin
Fanning
Richards.

I think its a real dilemma because I'm begining to doubt that any of them have a future beyond this season (apologies to Wakes for putting him into this group). Talls take time but how much time? But if they all get delisted, we are very thin for rucks and defenders.

(ps Mark, lets not make this another McKee thread and think forwards instead of backwards for once).

Yep, hear you. However, in this modern "da do run run run, da do run run" era (and with Bucks and Burns deserving to sit out a dance or two now), we need new runners/playmakers/extractors. The Dogs are level with us so far this year, but went into the year with much dicier young talls than us and a bizillion watts of midfield run already in their arsenal; yet at the draft they went for ....the runner, Higgins - "unbelievably" to me another mid runner, instead of the best tall. Saw his first or second game in their seconds and thought "oh what a stuff up pick". I'm now eating crow. Eades has guts.

For me, rnd one runner and then trade a player/pick to get into mid round two for the second of the runners we need urgently. Talls after that in set piece pcks rnds 2 and 3. If Conners is still there on any of them or at rnd 4, snaphoo - he has the small back post covered releasing Swan, 2Shaws, Johnson, Lockyer of any further burden there and can play mid himself.

A good big tall may be still better than a good small, but maybe in this climate we need less of the good talls in the overall team balance? Happy to be disabused.

 

[FIGJAM]

(ps Mark, lets not make this another McKee thread and think forwards instead of backwards for once).

Hehe! You've been told T-bone!!

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

You should add Tarrant to the list.

Seriously, its about time someone from Collingwood recognised the number of Hacks consistantly getting a game every week. True pretenders.

None of the above is getting a game. The only hack is you - Figgy why do you let these bozos post here?

 

[Lonie_from_50]

It is a huge dillema isn't it.

Jason Cloke has had his time - Delisted/Traded
Brent Hall and Tristen Walker are a waste of space - Delisted
Shane Wakelin may be walking - Retired
David Fanning yet to get a game in a 1-ruckman side - Delisted
Guy Richards a walking injury - Delisted
Cameron Cloke hasn't really proven himself this year. Injured again - Delisted

All fair. But Cameron Cloke and/or Guy Richards most likely to be kept. You just can't get rid of seven tall players, just isn't possible to do it. Cam showed a bit in 2005, so there is something there, to keep him on the list. Guy is a solid ruckman, no point delisting him when you are losing Hall, Walker and Fanning.

Departures (6): J Cloke, B Hall, T Walker, D Fanning, S Wakelin, C Morrison.
Arrivals (6): Pre-season draftee, 1,2,3,4 round draftees, H O'Brien elevated.

If a trade may come about for a player like Jason or a Julian Rowe or Adam Iacoubucci, then quite possible a seven arrivals/departures.

 

[FIGJAM]

None of the above is getting a game. The only hack is you - Figgy why do you let these bozos post here?

I asked all of 24 hours ago if I should delete them and was told no. It adds to the fun aparently.

Don't worry about them.

We may as well keep Richards. Wakes' future should be up to him. He hasn't been bad, and unless he shows signs of slowing, then it's his call.

Fanning is a dud. Hall is an uber-dud. Walker is an overlord-dud.

I'd move on all three, plus one of the older Clokes.

The only small worth delisting is Morrison.

Flaps, Walker, Hall, Cloke and Crab. that's five out and that's about the most you want. Many recruiters and Wiz reckons this draft is strong at the top end, but then fades away a bit, so replacing your Walkers with picks 70+ is idiotic, as you'll just get more of the same.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I think you've got it right Figs.

Theres a chance Jason Cloke may actually stay because theres other players on the list who need to go before him. Even possibly Cam might go before Jason, , and I woudn't have said that six months ago, but his development has been poor and now he has busted his shoulder for the third year running.

Richards to stay by default.

We may look for a trade - a senior midfielder for a senior tall. I'd shop around Lonie and Davis - their value this year has risen (finally).

 

[MarkT]

No question about it, we have too many talls that don’t contribute. A cleanout is a year overdue which in essence is a big part of our ongoing list issues. Sorry Timmy but you can’t ignore the past completely. We have held on to too many players too long.

Wakelin should get 1 more year because he is the best CHB we have and are likely to have for 2 to 3 years. If we had no realistic premiership chance I would say retire him. C1 is gone. Not good enough and O’Brien and Maxwell are well ahead of him. MM hasn’t helped his cause but at the end of the day I doubt he is good enough anyway. C2 is probably gone but as the only player of his type on the list (bigger build ruck/forward) apart from Rocca who can’t run on the ball any more anyway, he should IMO get 1 more year. His shoulder problems spell trouble though.

Hall and Walker have shown nothing and last years decision has to be made this year. They simply can’t play the game well enough to make a serious impact at VFL level. Fanning should go as well. If we want to persevere with him we can rookie him and give him a year or two without sacrificing a list spot. That is what we should have done last year. Richards is the interesting one. I don’t think we should give up just yet. We need a ruckman and he may or may not get there but we have no alternatives on the list. I’d give him 1 more year and also try and trade for a ruckman (eg Gardiner depending on how things work out for the remainder of the year or else a younger up and comer) on the basis we have to be prepared for Richards to be inured and/or not good enough.

OUT:
Walker
Hall
Fanning (possible rookie spot)
Jason Cloke

Along with Morrison that would be 5 out and with Harry elevated that would leave 4 draft rounds. I would like to see 1 more go and open a 5th round / PSD option. I’d wait until the end of the year before nominating anyone. Wakelin may make the decision for us but I get the impression form his comments he’d like to go on. See how it pans out over the rest of this season.

Rowe needs serious consideration. If Wakelin goes he gets a reprieve but if Wakelin stays Row is under the pump.

If we want to trade a name for a draft pick or player Lockyer is the one to send to Freo who I suspect will have a cleanout Lockyer is as valuable now as he will ever be and is expendable for us.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Sorry Timmy but you can’t ignore the past completely.

You held yourself back admirably!!!

 

[Coin_Toss]

I'd look at trading Jason Cloke to Richmond. They'd fancy him.

I abundantly agree with FIGJAM, Fanning is a dud. He is gone undeniably. Hall is in the same boat.

Mick might persist with Walker, but he has been unsatisfactory. It's do or die time for big Tex. If there was ever a time to step up to the plate it must be next year, because Wakes may not be around for much longer.

I like Cameron Cloke. He has showed flashes of form.
Same applies to Richards, but he needs to get going quicker.

TRADE

Jason Cloke < 2nd Rounder (Richmond).

DELIST

Brent Hall
David Fanning

RETIREE

Shane Wakelin (if we win the flag)

 

[FIGJAM]

The kid we should be targeting first and foremost is Meesen.

Whilst he hasn't set the world on fire over in Adelaide, he's a ruckman and will take longer. Hasn't settled in, and the whispers of him not being happy at instant AFL success, means he's hungry for it. Plus, he'd get isntant game time with us and at two years in, it's two years we wouldn't have to wait for a draftee to become half competent.

I think the Cows would rather do a deal with us, than watch Meesen go to the Filths for nothing. Get in his ear Balmey! Stat!!

 

[MarkT]

Jason Cloke < 2nd Rounder (Richmond).

The reality no one will part with a second round pick much less a team that has a mid range pick as Richmond are likely to end up with. If Cloke is delisted a club may take him in the PSD but it is highly unlikely anyone would use a pick in the first 3 rounds on him given the reported talent in this year’s draft. The best we could hopr for is to trade Cloke and our 4th rounder for a clubs 3rd rounder IF they wanted him and someone else also wanted him.

I think the Cows would rather do a deal with us, than watch Meesen go to the Filths for nothing. Get in his ear Balmey! Stat!!

Certainly worth pursuing but Clarke will likely retire and that would open up an opportunity s Adelaide may put a bot of work into keeping him.

 

[itsintheblood]

I'd look at trading Jason Cloke to Richmond. They'd fancy him.

Like Mark T has said on quite numerous occasions re richmond, collingwood can go get ****ed.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Like Mark T has said on quite numerous occasions re richmond, collingwood can go get ****ed.

Chill.

 

[MarkT]

Like Mark T has said on quite numerous occasions re richmond, collingwood can go get ****ed.

Ha, slightly different issue I think but nonetheless, as I said, it won’t happen.

 

[itsintheblood]

Ha, slightly different issue I think but nonetheless, as I said, it won’t happen.

Im not fussed marky boy. As long as we continue to beat you once a year and it's our home game then It's fine by me. As for the clokes, collingwood can get ****ed!!!!

 

[MarkT]

You might regret that. It’s not beyond the realms that one might end up via a PSD or something. As for the 1 match per year it is unlikely to always be a Richmond home game.

 

[itsintheblood]

You might regret that. It’s not beyond the realms that one might end up via a PSD or something. As for the 1 match per year it is unlikely to always be a Richmond home game.

Yo be quite honest mark, I wouldnt be disappointed if Jason came to richmond. I honestly think malthouse has screwed the kids head big time at collingwood. Has been poorly coached. Maybe we could do something with him. Not sure. Id be prepared to give him a go ahead of ray hall though.

 

[Murray]

Keep Richards and Cam.
Trade/delist the others.

Apparently there are several ready made talls in this years draft.
One of them is 197cm and 105 kgs and is ready to play immediately, according to Nixon from Flying Start

 

[Hadders]

Yo be quite honest mark, I wouldnt be disappointed if Jason came to richmond. I honestly think malthouse has screwed the kids head big time at collingwood. Has been poorly coached. Maybe we could do something with him. Not sure. Id be prepared to give him a go ahead of ray hall though.

this is what scares me about getting rid of j.cloke. i refuse to believe that someone who showed what he showed in 2002/03 can just lose it completely!
i really don't want him to go to another club and kill us in the future.

but if he were to go to richmond I think that wallace is the coach that could turn his career around.

 

[MarkT]

Yo be quite honest mark, I wouldnt be disappointed if Jason came to richmond. I honestly think malthouse has screwed the kids head big time at collingwood. Has been poorly coached. Maybe we could do something with him. Not sure. Id be prepared to give him a go ahead of ray hall though.

Agree on all fronts.
Well except for the Yanky black hood expression. Always a bad look for whities!

 

[MarkT]

this is what scares me about getting rid of j.cloke. i refuse to believe that someone who showed what he showed in 2002/03 can just lose it completely!
i really don't want him to go to another club and kill us in the future.

but if he were to go to richmond I think that wallace is the coach that could turn his career around.

What he might do elsewhere is no reason to warehouse him. It’s debatable that he can make it elsewhere for a start but even if he could it doesn’t hurt us if he couldn't make it with us. With a salary cap and a limit on list numbers you can’t keep players who are not producing unless you think you can turn them around in 12 months or so.

 

[Murray]

What he might do elsewhere is no reason to warehouse him. It’s debatable that he can make it elsewhere for a start but even if he could it doesn’t hurt us if he couldn't make it with us. With a salary cap and a limit on list numbers you can’t keep players who are not producing unless you think you can turn them around in 12 months or so.

Agree Mark

BTW is Walker due for long service this year?

I'm of the view, if a player cannot produce within 4 years (2 x 2 year contracts) then they go.