Cleanout

[dougthelegend]

Killed in centre clearances last night, and we supposedly still have cap troubles.
1. Henneman must go, be it traded (for **** all) or delisted
2. Bullen and Haynes must start in the midfield, along with rioli.
3. Play McGrath or let him go. ditto with harvey.
4. Mercuri on the bench/in vfl for the last year of his contract
5. No more experimentations in the ruck, Hille as #1, O'Keefe as the likely #2.

Looking at next years side.

Welsh Fletcher Jacobs
Wellman Lucas Solomon
Haynes Bullen Rioli/Pev
Hird Lloyd/Bolton Cupido
Harvey Richards/Johns/Lloyd McGrath
F: Hille MJ JJ
IC: Rioli/Pev Misiti/Bolton McPhee O'Keefe
Prefer Lloyd at CHF, Richards first shot at FF if lloyd moves. Assuming McGrath and Harvey stay they take the pockets and give some flexibility in the centre. concede mcveigh will be the most likely to leave if rumours to sydney are true. Couldn't fit McPhee in the starting line up, i think haynes needs to start as do Bullen making it hard to fit him in. Bolton moves to the bench if LLoyd takes CHF as he isn't a FF candidate and Lucas is a cert at CHB. Misiti will probably retire as he's showing his age.
The lineup overall is strong, we have a great depth in the list and its very flexible.

 

[ImperialPurple]

Just a question - how much longer does Hird still have in him do you reckon?

Bloody champion that man - will be sad to see him go.

 

[dougthelegend]

I think he has another 2 or three seasons left in him, he hasn't played a lot of games because of all his injuries - but then again they'd have to be taking a toll. Misiti started the same time and is looking his age, and like he's about ready to retire, hird on the otherhand looks as fit and willing as ever.

 

[Darealrath]

Mercuri needs to retire if he has any respect for himself. Just give him a coaching job so he still gets payed.

Henneman should be traded.

Smokin' Joe will have to take a huge pay cut or he'll be let go. I'd hate to seem him go though, one of my all time faves - and still is in our best 22 imo, but for what he's on...

Our list is alright. Really hoping Winderlich can step up next year.

 

[gPhonque]

Originally posted by dougthelegend
Killed in centre clearances last night, and we supposedly still have cap troubles.
1. Henneman must go, be it traded (for **** all) or delisted

Agree

2. Bullen and Haynes must start in the midfield, along with rioli.

Haynes yes. Bullen needs more time.

3. Play McGrath or let him go. ditto with harvey.

They'll get their chances next year if they're still around.

4. Mercuri on the bench/in vfl for the last year of his contract

It's hard but I agree. He's almost useless. Still does some very nice things out there, but not nearly enough if we're to compete with the top sides.

5. No more experimentations in the ruck, Hille as #1, O'Keefe as the likely #2.

I wouldn't call Henneman in the ruck for 1 quarter "experimentation" - Hille has well and truly cemented his spot as #1. Next year, I'm sure we'll be working towards getting a #2 up and happening.

Looking at next years side.

Welsh Fletcher Jacobs
Wellman Lucas Solomon
Haynes Bullen Rioli/Pev
Hird Lloyd/Bolton Cupido
Harvey Richards/Johns/Lloyd McGrath
F: Hille MJ JJ
IC: Rioli/Pev Misiti/Bolton McPhee O'Keefe
Prefer Lloyd at CHF, Richards first shot at FF if lloyd moves.

Why on Earth would you move Lloyd from FF?

His greatest strength is leading FROM THE SQUARE into space - if we nail the delivery, we score goals.

I'm glad you're not our coach.

Assuming McGrath and Harvey stay they take the pockets and give some flexibility in the centre.

I don't understand this love affair most of you guys have with McGrath. Sure - he's hardly had a solid chance to prove himself, but he's hardly set the world on fire when he's had his limited chances....

concede mcveigh will be the most likely to leave if rumours to sydney are true.

...yet you continue bag a cool head (when he has the ball) like McVeigh?

McVeigh has proven himself this year.

As I said he would at the end of last year.

Couldn't fit McPhee in the starting line up, i think haynes needs to start as do Bullen making it hard to fit him in.

I'd have McPhee in before Bullen at the moment. Bullen's a young guy who WILL get his chances next year.

Haynes is going to be a champion and will be in the side permanently as of now.

Bolton moves to the bench if LLoyd takes CHF as he isn't a FF candidate

But Reynolds is?

I think you're confused - Bolton has (imo) cemented his spot floating across the HF line.

And I still don't understand why you would destroy our forward line (and entire game plan) by removing Lloyd from full-forward.

The most ridiculous thing I've ever seen to be honest.

and Lucas is a cert at CHB. Misiti will probably retire as he's showing his age.

Agree and agree. Althoug I wouldn't be disappointed if Misiti decided to continue for another year. (i'd take the risk)

The lineup overall is strong, we have a great depth in the list and its very flexible.

Yep, and we have the greatest FULL FORWARD in the game today.

What does Lloyd do with the ball when he marks it 70m out?

Make a lead and kick it to himself?

 

[go team]

it took us half a year to get the team balance right, i wouldn't be screwing it around majorly.. keep lloyd at full foward
is o'keefe ready of senior footy?

 

[dougthelegend]

Re: Re: Cleanout

if lloyd wants to be captain he'll need to move to CHF, the position where you put your BEST forward.
from CHF lloyd is still capable of kicking 4-5 a game and will be more damaging than he already is. he is a champion FF, but if he captains it won't be from the goal square. how many FF's have captained? as opposed to CHF's?
and if the club has Lloyd marked as next captain they won't just move him to CHF once Hirdy retires, they'll move him a season or two in advance to get him used to the position and change the gameplan.
McGrath is only in the side for lack of another small forward type i could think of. and i would take McVeigh over him anyday, solid performer just omitted him due to the rumours about him to syd and the salary cap, if he stays he'd take McGraths pos in my side.
if the structure (Lloyd at FF) remains, Bolton has cemented his spot virtually on the HF line, but if or when they move Lloyd to CHF he no longer fits, CHB is taken, the only spot left is the bench or the side will run-on too tall.
dunno if O'Keefe is ready for seniors but with Allesio probably retiring next season what are the other options? all of them would be in the same position as O'Keefe.

 

[Hosko]

layco(k instead of O'Keefe. He is far more versatile and has far more potential. Im not certain that o'keefe will ever be ready for AFL

 

[dj21]

I think if we can keep the core of this team together for next year we will be a far better team. The 18 players I'd like to see in our side every week are:

Hird
Lloyd
Fletcher
JJ
MJ
Lucas
Hille
Jacobs
Solomon
Rama
Rioli
Peverill
Wellman
Welsh
McPhee
McVeigh
Cupido
Bolton

The players that I think should play a fair bit of seniors next year:

Bullen
Haynes
Richards
Mercuri (only because he was a favourite of mine)

The rest should get games based on form in VFL and available spots in the side. There should be plenty of opportunities with injuries and out of form seniors. And obviously we need another ruck amongst the players I listed.

This is by memory so I may have missed someone and there is no order.

 

[Cupestar]

I think I'm stating the obvious when I say that Barnard will be gone. Same with Henneman I think...and possibly Alessio, although he might be kept just for the lack of a strong second ruck (Hille is fine IMHO)

McGrath should ask to be traded, he's not getting a go and there are many teams where he would. Same with Harvey, he could be as good as big brother, but he's not showing it. Despite that, I'm loathe to let him go.

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by dougthelegend
Couldn't fit McPhee in the starting line up

Despite the season he's had? Harsh.

 

[Hosko]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by dougthelegend
Couldn't fit McPhee in the starting line up
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Despite the season he's had? Harsh

mcphee should definately be in the 22 but the starting 18 he is no guarantee. IMO he should be before Bullen at this stage.

It is essential that we get rid of at least one of our key position backmen in the off season
Jacobs
Lucas
Bolton
Henneman
Wellman
We are wasting talented players here because they can not all play alng half back where they play their best. Trade 1 or 2 get good value for them and help the balance of our lineup

we should keep Harvey and play him from the foward pocket which gives us another midfield option. This will probably be at the expense of Mercuri.
Both McGraths should go
so should Henneman, Alessio, Barnard, Bannister, Davies, RFK and Hall
I would doubt if we could get nething in a trade for these guys so delisting may be the only option.
If Misiti is not willing to resign on a fairly low wage then he will be out the door too.

 

[IceTemple]

Originally posted by Hosko
If Misiti is not willing to resign on a fairly low wage then he will be out the door too.

Bit harsh there Hosko! He will have one more year & then he will resign and be remembered fondly as a hard working, even if a little slow, midfielder who was part of both the "baby Bombers" & the "Invincibles".

 

[Hosko]

i agree with most of this Ice Temple but the fact is that Joe is out of contract at the seasons end and we have some important players out with demanding salaries, as Peter Jackson has already mentioned. We NEED Joe to accept that he is not worth what he used to be worth and MUST take what we offer him otherwise he will find himself giving up when he probably wanted one more year. If we are to keep our list together and go after possibly 1 out of contract player, we do not have room for greed from our own players.

 

[MrFurious]

Ever hear the story about the player who held on for one year too long???
Well, i hate to say it, but that was Mercs at the end of last year.
Did anyone else see him (apparently) running into the forward pocket on Friday night, only to be easily run down by a Magpie defender (name escapes me)??? Mercs looked like he was wading through quick sand trying to reach the ball... whatever leg speed he once had is long gone, and if he has any pride in himself, and any respect for the club that he loves, he should call it a day at the end of the Bombers finals run (if he lasts that long in the team). If Essendon was forced to let go of any one of Solomon, MJ, DJ, etc... because they still have Mercs contracted and under-performing, I for one would be mightily p!$$ed off.

Not that i have anything against Mercs, it's just that in order to get the big money, you've gotta show some spark on the ground...which he's not.

 

[gPhonque]

Re: Re: Re: Cleanout

Originally posted by dougthelegend
if lloyd wants to be captain he'll need to move to CHF, the position where you put your BEST forward.

If you want to live 50 years ago, then sure.

In todays footy, that is rubbish.

You put your best forward in the position where he will have the biggest influence on the ground.

In Lloyd's case, that is leading from the goal square into space.

Or

One on one in the goal square.

Playing him at CHF eliminates both those situations.

Also, there's not much value in Lloyd being a beautiful kick for goal when he's marking the ball 70m out.....

from CHF lloyd is still capable of kicking 4-5 a game and will be more damaging than he already is.

How do you work that out?

Lloyd creates almost as many goals as he kicks simply by bringing the ball to ground close to goal. He won't be able to do that at CHF.

Sure - he'll still be capable of kicking 4-5 goals a game from CHF, but it also makes him far easier to shut down.

he is a champion FF, but if he captains it won't be from the goal square.

Why not?

Give f*cking Mercuri the captaincy for all I care - as long as Lloyd stays at FF.

Moving him to CHF simply because he may be captain is pure stupidity.

how many FF's have captained? as opposed to CHF's?

Who cares.

If it means Lloyd is never captain (I don't think he's a captain anyway to be honest), then so be it.

If Ramanaskaus can come back next year healthy and in form, then I'd say we'd be looking at our future captain right there. He's a fair, skillfull, and apparently very well-liked person who would make a far better captain than Lloyd.

 

[Hosko]

Getting rid of Mercuri would certainly be in our best interests. Despite being one of my favourite players there would be several benefits from him going.
- It would get rid of a big salary and would allow Fletch to go on to the veterans list with Hirdy (only 2 players allowed)
- The young guys would get a better opportunity.

 

[dj21]

Originally posted by Hosko
Getting rid of Mercuri would certainly be in our best interests. Despite being one of my favourite players there would be several benefits from him going.
- It would get rid of a big salary and would allow Fletch to go on to the veterans list with Hirdy (only 2 players allowed)
- The young guys would get a better opportunity.

Actually getting rid of Mercuri would mean we would be paying a huge salary for him not to play and they changed the Veterans rule so that you can have more than two players on it. Unfortunately Fletch is too young to get onto the vets list anyway.

 

[Hosko]

Unfortunately Fletch is too young to get onto the vets list anyway.

He has been at the club for 10 years meaning that he can go on the list. Thats my understanding anyway.
If Mercuri retires then we will not have to pay his salary, which would be the best option.

 

[Merry]

Moving Lloyd from FF is a big mistake and there's no reason he can't captain from FF.
I THINK the veteran's list is 10 years plus being 30 so only Hird, Mercs and Alessio would get on it next year. If it was just 10 years any of the guys from '92 could have been on it this year and they would have picked Hird and Mercs.
For the record, I would have Haynes before Bullen, McPhee before bullen, and any three of them before Cupido (who I know is loved so far) but I think he's a liability (Friday night a great example). He's just gonna be another farmer or ronnie burns or bradley Plain. Just too inconsistent for AFL and if he's not getting near it, can't play anywhere else.

 

[essnickess]

if mercs retires we don't have to pay him out (his salary that is) do we?

 

[Merry]

I think if mercs retires we don't have to pay him out, but will have to if he is sacked. So unless he is traded (and I don't think anyone will want him at his price) he will stay.

 

[marcuz]

For the record, I would have Haynes before Bullen, McPhee before bullen, and any three of them before Cupido (who I know is loved so far) but I think he's a liability (Friday night a great example). He's just gonna be another farmer or ronnie burns or bradley Plain. Just too inconsistent for AFL and if he's not getting near it, can't play anywhere else.

what absolute horse****. The kid hasnt had a full pre saeson in three years , has been decimated by injury and your writing him off and comparing him to bradley plain. In three years he will be burning up a wing for the dons mark my words

 

[Merry]

I hope you're right marcuz, but i reckon rama will be in his prime by then and McVeigh, Bullen, Haynes or even McPhee might get the other wing. Forward pockets don't last in the AFL unless they can play somewhere else. I honestly hope he can get to a half-forward flank, but will desperatly need a defensive side by then of which he has none yet.

 

[marcuz]

He does need to improve defensively no doubt about it. But the talent is there we have all seen it. And with sheeds as coach im confident he will be a star. those guys you named arent super quick except for mcviegh and i think sheeds is pretty keen to inject some raw pace into that midfield.