Analysis Clearance drop-off in 2024 ...?

[JustaBattler]

Im a big fan of TDK and i think his overall game has been improving, although i never really see him putting the ball to the hands or feet of our on ballers, even though someone posted the stat that his hit outs to advantage are up, i just dont see it. It appears that some of this drop off is by design and some of it down to TDKs lack of natural ruck craft.

Pitto has a few deficiencies but i always thought he put it to the right spots at the ruck contests, late in the Freo game when we were down by a few points, i swear i saw TDK putting it in to no mans land where our guys had no chance.

I agree that Pittonet is a better tap ruckman and better at making room for his mids, I've always preferred a two-ruck setup if both rucks are fit - and I think when Pittonet gets fully fit again - Voss is likely to play them both against certain teams if not all. I think TDK is a much better around teh field player and will only get better - not as naturally gifted as his brother - bit also plays a much more multi dimensional role for Carlton. My favorite not Carlton ruckman is the bloke that goes around for St Kilda.

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

When two of the three are half a step slow, the Oppo can get to the outside with ease. It was really concerning how easily Freo found the free man.

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We haven't played Port yet.
I know it was only *, but damn they looked good out of the middle.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

The answers are pretty obvious. Varying degrees of impact but they're obvious.

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

We had first hands on the ball repeatedly on Saturday. We either fumbled, fumbled the initial handball or then overdid it with another - all under pressure. Don't fumble, and/or kick the ball earlier, and the stats would have looked the total opposite.

We are not a good handballing to outside mids side, relied too much on contested, grunt footy.
It shows with our poor link-up chains and short passing compared to teams better drilled in this area.
But we're still finding ways to win and our improved defence is limiting opposition rebound, which was a big concern last year.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Im a big fan of TDK and i think his overall game has been improving, although i never really see him putting the ball to the hands or feet of our on ballers, even though someone posted the stat that his hit outs to advantage are up, i just dont see it. It appears that some of this drop off is by design and some of it down to TDKs lack of natural ruck craft.

Pitto has a few deficiencies but i always thought he put it to the right spots at the ruck contests, late in the Freo game when we were down by a few points, i swear i saw TDK putting it in to no mans land where our guys had no chance.

They're up??? He's struggling. He was 29th before the Freo game. He's dropped.




He's also 27th in hitout win %

Take out the part timers and anomolies and he ranks bottom half for starting rucks in both.

By comparison the ruck he's about to face is 7th in hitout win rate and 36th in hitout to advantage rate so he's got a real chance this week to show that he can actually have a good impact.

I like TDK around the ground more and more. I think his stoppage game is horrible. Wouldn't mind him playing more 50/50 with pitto. Pitto does centre patrol and d50. TDK does F50. 2 of freos goals came directly from dropped TDK defensive marks. Pitto can spoil. He's strong in defensive deep entries and when his knees aren't shithouse he can move- not like TDK but enough.

We also desperately need a 'real' target that can take the triple teams off h and Curnow TDK has the footskills and speed to be a leading forward

 

[RAPPA]

All in all, there’s a lot of upside to be had and seen which is a positive when we’ve banked the 4 wins to start.

 

[BlueJet]

TDK isn't great as a traditional ruckman but offers more around the ground but we knew that. Whether benefit the around the ground trumps that around the coalface remains to be seen but I suspect both TDK and Pittonet will have opportunities to make the role their own, either way, we can get more impact from the position.
Then we have some players out/played out of position.
We also seem to be taking less of an all-or-nothing approach to stoppages.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Do they have a stat showing TDK’s agility and athleticism to be able to get around the ground and keep up with the likes of Luke Jackson

9

Luke Jackson

Age

22

Ht

199cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

2star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

3star

K

3.3

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

who has torn the competition to shreds over the first month….

 

[Benaly28]

I mentioned pre season we should try Zac in the guts would help our mids immediately however I do understand he’s still getting over his knee injury but we lack that speedy breakaway mid.

Walsh out hurts as well.However in saying all this the turnover game is what you need to win premierships now,what’s happened to us I think is we’ve over corrected too much to change our game plan.


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[Arr0w]

I'd still play both Pitto and TDK, we get bits of both for what the side needs

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Do they have a stat showing TDK’s agility and athleticism to be able to get around the ground and keep up with the likes of Luke Jackson who has torn the competition to shreds over the first month….

Jackson season averages.....

21 disposals, 2i50s, only 2 clangers, 11.8 contested, 3.8 intercept possies, 8.8 ground ball gets, 4.3 clearances, 24.3 hitouts, hit out percentages and to advantage percentages are basically the same/worse than TDK. He's not a good tap ruckman either. He does his damage after the tap. 1 goal, 2.8 tackles, 3 marks, 1 contested mark

Against carlton... 21 disposals, 1 i50, 3 clangers, 13 contested, 6 intercepts, 5 clearances 29 hitouts. Whereas he been curtailed....? He had his normal game. Didn't kick a goal but had more than usual stoppage presence and higher intercept rates than usual too. Jackson was one of their best easily.

 

[Blue Reaper]

I mentioned pre season we should try Zac in the guts would help our mids immediately however I do understand he’s still getting over his knee injury but we lack that speedy breakaway mid.

Walsh out hurts as well.However in saying all this the turnover game is what you need to win premierships now,what’s happened to us I think is we’ve over corrected too much to change our game plan.


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Walsh in will definitely help but would also like to see a different type of midfielder added to the rotation. A Zac/Boyd/Kemp type, maybe Wilson when he’s ready.

 

[LemmingMaster]

It feels like a focus is on turnovers and rebounding from the back half. We may have lost a little clearance work, but we're getting it more on the rebound and from turnover.
Clearances will revert to the mean and once we add the clearance game to our turnover game, we should be a better squad.

Personally, I don't think Pitto helps our game plan anymore. It takes Harry out of the ruck and he's having a great season playing the chop out ruck as well.

Likewise, having Kemp in the team for me is important because of his attacking kicking. Boyd's improvement and the addition of Williams is also vital for turnover football.

If you add Walsh into the mix, then you add a Motlop/Martin into the forward line, we're a heap better.

Carroll is also providing some dash with ball winning ability. Once he cleans up his kicking a little, that will help. His action is very sound, so I am not concerned long term.

 

[DangerousD]

I agree that Pittonet is a better tap ruckman and better at making room for his mids, I've always preferred a two-ruck setup if both rucks are fit - and I think when Pittonet gets fully fit again - Voss is likely to play them both against certain teams if not all. I think TDK is a much better around teh field player and will only get better - not as naturally gifted as his brother - bit also plays a much more multi dimensional role for Carlton. My favorite not Carlton ruckman is the bloke that goes around for St Kilda.

What are our mids telling Pitto that they’re not telling TDK? Tom is getting his hands to the ball no worries, so how are the other players not demanding more of him in regards to where it goes? Or is he not capable of rucking to that level? I understand when we have Harry, Kennedy, Cripps or SOS all you want is them to compete, tackle and contribute to a clearance but when your ruck is big and can jump, i think we should be expecting more.

Im currently watching the footy shows and they were talking how good Freos clearance game was and they just showed TDK put it down the throat of Serong and Fyfe more than once. I see Pitto put the ball straight down repeatedly, I’m repeating myself here but Tom seems to be rucking dumb.

 

[BringFevBack2021]

I’m not worried about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Think we will bring in Pitto this week to see how we go. Imo he would be coming in vs Briggs regardless of TDK's form and he needs some game time to get some fitness in his legs before that match up.

He's more suited to our current midfield in terms of providing them the best opportunity to play to their strengths. TDK is still developing that aspect of his game while his work around the ground has gone to new levels.

 

[JustaBattler]

What are our mids telling Pitto that they’re not telling TDK? Tom is getting his hands to the ball no worries, so how are the other players not demanding more of him in regards to where it goes? Or is he not capable of rucking to that level? I understand when we have Harry, Kennedy, Cripps or SOS all you want is them to compete, tackle and contribute to a clearance but when your ruck is big and can jump, i think we should be expecting more.

Im currently watching the footy shows and they were talking how good Freos clearance game was and they just showed TDK put it down the throat of Serong and Fyfe more than once. I see Pitto put the ball straight down repeatedly, I’m repeating myself here but Tom seems to be rucking dumb.

well my view ( fwiw) is that Pittonet and TDK have different styles of rucking- Pittonet always goes to the body of his opponent and doesn't get the height in his jump that TDK can. TDK relies on leaps more than most ruckmen and the rules have changed now to allow less leap and a straight into body from ground contest - the order of difficulty to time high leap and get tap right is much harder than body on body and a dropped tap. I wouidl like to see TDK smash the ball forward over teh contest to advantage - at times- in planned moves aa few ruckmen are doing that these days to great effect. I would also like the on ball rotations to have less runts involved who cant block the bigger bodied opponents for their team mates anyway...every team has a different set of CBB moves and around teh ground ball ups...

This is one reason I prefer to see both Pittonet and TDK play ruck - TDK is almost a second big bodied mid the way he can run and and his ability to receive and give off is actually better than a few of the smaller bodies trialled recently....

The sooner the team can get back to the midfield set up it had when teh team was dominating clearances- the better - and there is nothing to say that the turnover game improvement we have seen goes away if that is done anyway.

A resting TDK in the forward line actually ticks the box for the third tall pretty well ( his set shot kicking has gone up a level this year) - as long as he doesn't get in teh way of Harry or Charlie and makes his own space - I can see no reason why it wouldn't work.

All that said it is no use playing Pittoment unless and until he has really match fit - something he hasn't been since he did his PCL and broke his hand.

 

[My Hat]

Between Pitto and TDK we've got one awesome ruck. Unfortunately he's in the body of two players. Wish we could just keep de Konet on the list and delist Pittoning at the end of the year.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Jackson season averages.....

21 disposals, 2i50s, only 2 clangers, 11.8 contested, 3.8 intercept possies, 8.8 ground ball gets, 4.3 clearances, 24.3 hitouts, hit out percentages and to advantage percentages are basically the same/worse than TDK. He's not a good tap ruckman either. He does his damage after the tap. 1 goal, 2.8 tackles, 3 marks, 1 contested mark

Against carlton... 21 disposals, 1 i50, 3 clangers, 13 contested, 6 intercepts, 5 clearances 29 hitouts. Whereas he been curtailed....? He had his normal game. Didn't kick a goal but had more than usual stoppage presence and higher intercept rates than usual too. Jackson was one of their best easily.

Yeah but totally out ran each of his opponents and got forward to dangerous positions deep inside 50 to either kick goals or be involved in goals in their first few games.

 

[Beyond Blue]

All I’ll say on this is from a fans perspective finding different ways to win is much more fun than finding different ways to lose.

 

[carlton_99]

"Other parts of our game are holding us up really well. It’s something that we’ve got to get to work on. We’ve got naturally gifted players that love the contest, and with a little bit more attention - but not at the expense of anything else - we’ll get after it."

Carlton's 4-0, but Voss, Blues aren't satisifed

There's still a lot for Carlton to improve on, according to AFL Senior Coach Michael Voss.

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[Faz 2000]

I think this is a good reason to be optimistic, too. We have clearly improved our forward pressure and turnover game. Those are structural/gameplan/discipline things.

At the moment our clearance game - especially centre square - appears weak. But we would seem to have most of the ingredients to have a good centre square setup. We do have plenty of players that can win a lot of clearances. We have been a good one before (ie. last year). I feel that in time - or perhaps in a big game when we need it - we will find out clearance game WITHOUT losing our turnover game.

Then how will they beat us?

 

[Juice030103]

If we (when we) fix our clearance part of our game I see 17 win see possibly more

 

[Osc1]

Funny that.

Well done Pitto and the mids. Bloody well deserved.

 

[Gethelred]

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