Opinion Cloke Megathread 2 - Plan B's, Contract Talks on hold till end of season

[ipswichpies]

FROM ANOTHER FORUM:


Dear Travis,

I’m going to keep this brief, as wasting any more oxygen, emotion or brain cells on you than I already have will end up the same way as a paedophile attending a Wiggles concert. Not so good.

You have 256 peers that, like you, have played all four matches from rounds fourteen through seventeen. Defenders, midfielders, forwards big and small, first-gamers, mature-aged recruits, players new to the sport from overseas, players returning from injury, players rotated an inordinate amount of times, players that spend a lot less TOG than you, players affected by the red/green vests etc. 256 players. Of that number, you have touched the ball more times in the last month than only 8% of your peers. Eight per-cent. From watching you in the media throughout your career, I understand that maths may not be your strongest suit, hell, anything remotely academic past year eight is probably not your bread and butter, so I’ll try and make things easier for you. Grab eleven mates. Join them and line up against a wall in order of best to worst, from first to twelfth. Currently Travis, you are twelfth, you are the worst.

And it’s not as if the entire 92% above you is made up of your Swans, Abletts, Thompsons, Boyds and Stantons. No, veterans like Carlton’s Matthew Watson (10 games), West Coast’s Jacob Brennan (11), Bulldog Christian Howard (13), Gold Coast’s Charlie Dixon (17) and Port’s Andrew Moore (20) are all getting more of the pill than you. Let’s not even mention the teenagers who have been getting more touches, names like: Greene, Ellis, Hampton, Treloar, Bennell, Caddy, Atley and Dahlhaus.

“It’s not all about possessions”, I hear you plead. OK, I’ll cut you some slack. You’re a key forward, a marking forward, a power forward. You’ve taken fourteen marks (eight contested) in the last month. Again, almost three-quarters of the league have snaffled more marks in that time, so you’ll struggle to hang your hat on any marking-related stat.

Goal-kicking? You’ve kicked six in the last month, at 1.5 per game (down even on your 1.57 career average). But in reality, are you even a goal-kicker? Let’s chew on that for a moment and compare your career stats versus your (positional) peers – key/leading/power/marking forwards in Franklin, Podsiadly, Brown, Pavlich, Riewoldt (x2) and Roughead. Hell, I’ll even throw the tip-rat Milne into the equation, as even he has managed to pants you over 250+ games the little bugger. That’s you against eight others. I’ll highlight a handful of categories with the leading player’s stat, the second-worst (or 8th of 9) stat and yours. Here goes:

Goals Per game:
BEST – Franklin 3.22 from 156 matches.
8th of NINE – Roughead 1.90 from 151 matches.
CLOKE – 1.57 from 165 matches.

Goal-Kicking Accuracy (never mind Out Of Bounds!):
BEST – Milne at 64.3%
8th of NINE – Franklin at 57.6%
CLOKE – 53.4%

Bags of goals (5+):
BEST – Franklin with 43 x 5+ goal matches
8th of NINE – Podsiadly with 11 bags (from only 54 matches)
CLOKE – 9 x 5+ goal matches

Frequency of kicking a bag of 5+ goals:
BEST – Franklin with one 5+ goal haul every 3.6 matches
8th of NINE – Milne at 1 every 14.0 matches
CLOKE – 1 every 18.3 matches.

So it turns out you’re not really a goal-kicker of any note either.

You’re not taking marks, therefore you’re not getting touches and as a result (not surprisingly given your very average career stats) you’re not kicking goals. Yet Daddy thinks you’re worth $1m+ a year? Let’s re-visit the blokes that sat below you in the stats count recently.

There are twenty-two players that have racked up less than your forty-one touches over the last month. Six of these players have been wearers of the green vest in Lovett-Murray and Campbell (3), Young and Newman (2), Patrick and Harper (1), so it would be unfair to bundle these blokes alongside you due to reduced ground time. Jack Darling (9), Lindsay Thomas (9), Ahmed Saad (7) and Robbie Tarrant (6) have kicked as many or more goals than you have, so they get a tick. Nathan Wilson, Sam Day and Jamie Elliott are still teenagers so it would be unfair to judge them harshly at this stage of their careers. Nick Duigan and Paul Puopolo, in only their second seasons, can be excused using a similar judgement. That leaves only seven blokes (of 256) that you can fairly say you are going better than:

Mike Pyke – a Canadian import whose output includes 22+ hit-outs per match
Matthew Lobbe – a 17-game veteran holding his own with 18 hit-outs per match
LRT and Andrejs Everitt – part of a team that’s gone 4-0 in that period
Matthew Warnock (key defender in a side that gets smashed), Jared Rivers and Justin Koschitzke.

Not too many Brownlows, Colemans or All-Australians in that bunch. Just good, honest toilers. Yet I’d hazard a guess that Daddy is trying to get a contract signed that earns you as much as these seven blokes combined. Yes, you’re a massive unit. Yes, you have a tank that allows you to run all day. Yes, you’ve had one good year (hell, so did Allen Jakovich and Adrian McAdam). But what you have allowed to happen by letting Daddy handle your affairs has been sad/comical/farcical to watch unfold.

I hope you kick twelve against GWS and beat up on them like a flat-track bully. I hope that performance will push to one side the on-field petulance you have shown increasingly of late. I hope you finish the year with a Collingwood flag, but will not be holding my breath on the last one. I also hope that your actions (and Daddy's) this year either see you squeezed out of the club, or forced to take 'unders' like the majority of the Collingwood squad already has.


Actually, I'd prefer you to go to Carlton.

People should read this,I am not being funny here as it is a real eye opener.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

The $100 k saving in the salary cap onwards 2014 means Carlton at the very least will have to offer him min $900 k / year to even match the Collingwood offer. They frankly will struggle for that space.

The might be able to do it.

McLean is yet to be signed, he cost them reasonable $.
If they decided not to re-sign a few of their lesser known players they could probably find the $900k but IMO it would really hurt them with all those number 1 picks that have to be re-signed sometime

 

[BEEG]

Such an amazing post right there!!!!

Thats awesome well said

 

[eddiebankbalance]

I think we can offer Carlton's figure and they know that too. It's my understanding that even if he commits to Carlton but we match the offer, the only way he can end up there is via a trade. Not through free agency.

Interesting, although he can go into the draft and put a price on his head? But I'm getting the feeling an arrangement has already being put in place (with Carlscum). Could this be why (Daddy) has a big asking price towards Collingwood and Daddy knows it will NOT be accepted by Collingwood? Therefore, I smell
a conspiracy!!!!

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Interesting, although he can go into the draft and put a price on his head? But I'm getting the feeling an arrangement has already being put in place (with Carlscum). Could this be why (Daddy) has a big asking price towards Collingwood and Daddy knows it will NOT be accepted by Collingwood? Therefore, I smell
a conspiracy!!!!

A second spiter from the gravelly road???

 

[mattys123]

Dane Swan is being his usual cheeky self;

@swandane: It's nice of the bus driver to swing by breakfast point so Trav can have a look at what may be his new surroundings next year..
#$$$$

 

[sirene]

Jan Juc's post is awesome and probably true; my point is we as supporters, but outside the inner workings of the club and the Clokes are still ONLY basing our opinions on rumours. AND LASTLY, BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY....HE IS STILL OURS UNTIL AFTER THIS SEASON. I want a premiership again this year, lets stop helping others to derail us!

 

[eddiebankbalance]

A second spiter from the gravelly road???

English please, I do not understand what you mean.

 

[eddiebankbalance]

Dane Swan is being his usual cheeky self;

Hmm, I'm a bus driver and would not stop so Cloke go get his hook on. Think Dane is so funny

 

[entourage]

Dane Swan is being his usual cheeky self;

Swan said something similar last year over twitter about Thomas...seemingly he knew Thomas would never go though...

 

[SuperSub17]

Some people saying he has already signed with Carlton - but can't we just match their offer and then he can't go unless he is traded or goes into the draft? How can he have already signed?

 

[thecig]

Some people saying he has already signed with Carlton - but can't we just match their offer and then he can't go unless he is traded or goes into the draft? How can he have already signed?

I think ppl are getting confused with the term "agreed in principle" or a "handshake agreement"

 

[SuperSub17]

I think ppl are getting confused with the term "agreed in principle" or a "handshake agreement"

But even so surely we are in complete control over whether he goes or not? If we wanted to we could match their offer and then he couldn't go as an FA. Surely nothing can be decided yet?

 

[HFF]

Was some pretty funny stuff there by Jan Juc although I believe Trav is still a premier player for us and the comp.

As for Swanny, you gotta love his humour.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

English please, I do not understand what you mean.

Seinfeld episode about a conspiracy

 

[Zahki]

I agree it couldn't be a plainer hypothetical, luckily neither party has suggested it will happen

The club doesn't need to suggest it will happen, it's simple math. I don't need a press release from Collingwood to inform me that 2 + 2 = 4, and I don't need them to come out and say that a player taking a bigger slice of the salary cap means other players get paid less than they would otherwise. Cloke taking more of the cap means it's harder to keep mid tier players because there isn't enough left over to pay them what they're worth and they need to accept even less than they'd be getting otherwise, that's fact, I can explain how the salary cap works if you need me to.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

The club doesn't need to suggest it will happen, it's simple math. I don't need a press release from Collingwood to inform me that 2 + 2 = 4, and I don't need them to come out and say that a player taking a bigger slice of the salary cap means other players get paid less than they would otherwise. Cloke taking more of the cap means it's harder to keep mid tier players because there isn't enough left over to pay them what they're worth and they need to accept even less than they'd be getting otherwise, that's fact, I can explain how the salary cap works if you need me to.

But your math is just a guess, that's the whole point

 

[thecig]

But even so surely we are in complete control over whether he goes or not? If we wanted to we could match their offer and then he couldn't go as an FA. Surely nothing can be decided yet?

I think you're right as he is still a restricted free agent, unrestricted agents are allowed to do what they want without their club needing to match the offer.

 

[dansa]

But even so surely we are in complete control over whether he goes or not? If we wanted to we could match their offer and then he couldn't go as an FA. Surely nothing can be decided yet?

Sure we can. But we have already given him our final offer. Why would we increase it to match Carlton or any other team. If we were prepared to do that we'd do it now and end all this.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Sure we can. But we have already given him our final offer. Why would we increase it to match Carlton or any other team. If we were prepared to do that we'd do it now and end all this.

No one from the Club has said we have given Travis our final offer

 

[dansa]

No one from the Club has said we have given Travis our final offer

I couldn't possibly believe Walsh, Pert, McGuire and Buckley would mismanage the negotiations so badly that they would drag out this farce all season if they had a better offer ready to table. What ever offer they have made is the best they can do.

 

[Zahki]

But your math is just a guess, that's the whole point

No, the exact figures are guesses but we don't need the exact figures to understand the impact of one player taking up a disproportionately large slice of the cap on the rest of the list. The cap is roughly 10 million dollars. Divided among 42 players thats about 230,000 per player if they were all paid equally. For every dollar a player earns ABOVE that amount it means another player must accept a dollar LESS than that amount. 800,000 is a very large portion, if one player gets paid that amount then all 41 players receive almost $14,000 less if the damage is divided equally among them.

No one from the Club has said we have given Travis our final offer

The best offer is on the table and has been for months. I have more faith in Walsh, Pert and Eddie then that. The ball is entirely in Clokes court, does he want to stay or go, thats the only decision that needs to be made, he's not getting a better offer from us.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I couldn't possibly believe Walsh, Pert, McGuire and Buckley would mismanage the negotiations so badly that they would drag out this farce all season if they had a better offer ready to table. What ever offer they have made is the best they can do.

Ok, choosing to believe someone is different to knowing at what point the negotiations have gotten to.

And again I say you are just guessing that the final offer has been made Cloke.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

No, the exact figures are guesses but we don't need the exact figures to understand the impact of one player taking up a disproportionately large slice of the cap on the rest of the list. The cap is roughly 10 million dollars. Divided among 42 players thats about 230,000 per player if they were all paid equally. For every dollar a player earns ABOVE that amount it means another player must accept a dollar LESS than that amount. 800,000 is a very large portion, if one player gets paid that amount then all 41 players receive almost $14,000 less if the damage is divided equally among them.

Yes we do need to know the exact figures, that's the whole point of TPP.
Can you tell me what each player is earning?
What we offered Cloke?
What Cloke wanted?

No?

 

[eddiebankbalance]

Seinfeld episode about a conspiracy

Yeah I'm not Jewish - so it's still way over my head