Club Culture, etc..

[Paul.]

With the recent Selwood issue, WCE's drugs policy (or lack of), Discipline issues and the like, I'm glad we got rid of Chris Tarrant.

We might suffer on the field from it (maybe, opinions differ) however the culture at our club recently has improved.

I just hope our players don't stoop as low as other clubs, or the general scum that degenerates our great game.

Bring on ANZAC day and proud tradition.

 

[Ron]

At this point in time i'd happily swap our culture for that of the eagles if it means i got to see us win a premiership.

 

[Paul.]

I wouldn't. I don't want to support a bunch of thugs.

 

[AsianWithAFro]

Yeah Tarrant fit in nicely to Freo. They have been regarded to have the worst clubs culture so he'll be right at home.

 

[Frederlick]

Firstly I would say that I welcome these sort of threads, they look below the surface of footy at the values of the game, and values are what build a real club. I have to acknowledge the values of clubs like the Bulldogs and Cats, who have not won premeierships for years, yet still maintain a real group of proud supporters and administrators who value their club for more than success. I would like to believe that Collingwood shares a similar outlook, and the clubs membership and commitment reflects this. By the same token the AFL itself must share an element of responsibility for some of the ongoing challenges that are facing football, the reason I believe that the AFL must address the issues of drugs in particular is not so we can witch hunt teams like West Coast, but so our own club can maintain its integrity. When it is all said and done West Coasts buisness is their buisness, as members we must maintain the integrity of the Magpies and encourage the AFL to make tough decsions that facilitate the ability of all clubs to deal with difficult circumstances in an appropriate way. This is probably not occuring at the moment.

 

[MarkT]

Culture is hard to assess from the outside until things go wrong. Whatever the wrongs at WCE they seem to have a very good attitude to training and performing on the park. We seem to have a few good blokes but we lack the physicality necessary to win premierships IMO. I can’t say I’d like to see the issue at WCE at Collingwood but I can’t say I’m happy with our off field culture mat least either at present. We make too many excuses and don’t hold people accountable enough IMO.

As for Tarrant, we accommodated him for a long time. I bet you if he’d had a really good 2006 he’d still be in a Collingwood jumper doing whatever he liked.

 

[ShepBoy]

If you have to be anal holes like WCE, then I would prefer not to win a flag if becoming drug taking pedophiles is the way to get there.

Of course this would fit in with the culture of Olympus.

 

[cult_hero26]

Culture is hard to assess from the outside until things go wrong. Whatever the wrongs at WCE they seem to have a very good attitude to training and performing on the park. We seem to have a few good blokes but we lack the physicality necessary to win premierships IMO. I can’t say I’d like to see the issue at WCE at Collingwood but I can’t say I’m happy with our off field culture mat least either at present. We make too many excuses and don’t hold people accountable enough IMO.

As for Tarrant, we accommodated him for a long time. I bet you if he’d had a really good 2006 he’d still be in a Collingwood jumper doing whatever he liked.

Absolutely spot on. I felt this was never more so than following the 2003 Grand Final when record profits and membership figures were thrown in the direction of fans.

However, to return to club culture, I feel with our strong emphasis on tradition, i.e the jumper, these are things we can believe in and perpetuate the club.

 

[Jabso]

I think we are not as bad as most clubs in the culture deparment, that is not to say that it is good enough though. It could be a question of what comes first, the chicken, or the egg? Does the good club culture come from winning games together? Or does winning games come from a good club culture?

Again back to my original point, look at Geelong, St. Kilda, Bulldogs, Melbourne and in recent times Hawthorn. Near enough is good enough for them, sure they all want to win the premiership, but their is no real pressure on them as well, despite the hollering of the supporters. Even Carlton were content with finishing 10th in 2004.

MM is a coach who aims for top 4 just about every year, if not it's the top 8. Last year was not good enough, a lesser club would be content with that, feeling positive about being a "young team" and "showing good form" in the first half of the season and finishing 5th. The membership and profit figures being 'thrown at us' after losing the GF is spin no question. However I don't think it necessarily reflects the people that are really a part of the culture, the coaches and the players. I think our mistake was never our culture, it was taking our success in 2002 and 2003 for granted and believing that we'd improve next year seeing as we had the same list and recruiting mistakes saw that noone else from our list would never step up and give us an edge.

 

[RustyG]

Don't worry about our culture?
Our culture is fine.
The only thing wrong with that is,we fail more times than we succeed in winning th big one.
At least we are there.
What would you prefer?
Sitting at home on the big day supporting a "No Body"
or,Cheering your guts out for your beloved Magpies?
I know we lose more than we win,but it's better that watching Carlton or Essendon win the flag.

 

[goalpie]

Well Tarrant, C Cloke and Scotland have all been moved on.

 

[AsianWithAFro]

Well Tarrant, C Cloke and Scotland have all been moved on.

Why did Scotland leave? He was in good form last year?

 

[ChipDouglas]

Why did Scotland leave? He was in good form last year?

Scotland wanted to leave in search of more game time. He was on and off the bench for us and at Carlton he plays most of the game now. We traded him for an early third round pick which we used on Brent Hall so we effectively got nothing for him. There was no point keeping someone who didn't want to be there, as Eddie often says we are only after blokes who WANT to play for Collingwood. Boy can play but was, and appears to still be, a bit of a nuphie off the paddock.

 

[spoljar]

Absolutely spot on. I felt this was never more so than following the 2003 Grand Final when record profits and membership figures were thrown in the direction of fans.

However, to return to club culture, I feel with our strong emphasis on tradition, i.e the jumper, these are things we can believe in and perpetuate the club.

You can also throw in the numerous Conspiracy Theories that are thrown around when we lose these Grand Finals! That has probably become one of Collingwoods worst cultural traits as such!
And unfortunaly that all starts from the top and is a good way to keep supporters in check as it helps them to sleep better when trying to justify one premiership in 50 years in their heads!

 

[Jabso]

Scotland wanted to leave in search of more game time. He was on and off the bench for us and at Carlton he plays most of the game now. We traded him for an early third round pick which we used on Brent Hall so we effectively got nothing for him. There was no point keeping someone who didn't want to be there, as Eddie often says we are only after blokes who WANT to play for Collingwood. Boy can play but was, and appears to still be, a bit of a nuphie off the paddock.

Yeah he complained about never getting a go yet played in a finals series with no serious injuries. Look at Swan, be patient for god's sake. MM had him in Willy for a reason, he was a good player but needed to improve in a lot of areas of his game including accountability, teamwork and getting more involved rather than getting easy kicks. I remember looking at Scotland and thinking he could be a good player but he got in people's way, ran off his man way too much and it didn't pay off that much. In other words Scotland needed to be the top or at least top 2 midfielders in the team otherwise he struggles as he didn't do the team things, we had Burns, Buckley and Licuria who were all brilliant players in our GF years, better than Scotland that's for sure, then we had handy support in Woey, Holland (very good in 2003, BOG in the prelim final), O'Bree. He went to Carlton and was given a key role and flourished. Doesn't strike me as a player who was ever prepared to work from the bottom up.

 

[MarkT]

Or does winning games come from a good club culture?

Mostly it comes from having the best players. Not exclusively but it is THE most important aspect.

Again back to my original point, look at Geelong, St. Kilda, Bulldogs, Melbourne and in recent times Hawthorn. Near enough is good enough for them,

And it was for us as well. In 2002 we celebrated being able to make the GF and nearly winning it. Then we did SFA about the list deficiencies that saw us lose. In 2003 we were smashed mercilessly and we made more excuses. The only person “accountable” was the one who told the coach not to do what didn’t work.

MM is a coach who aims for top 4 just about every year, if not it's the top 8.

You obviously haven’t sat through an AGM and listened to the coach and the president blame injuries for finishing SECOND LAST.

Last year was not good enough, a lesser club would be content with that, feeling positive about being a "young team" and "showing good form" in the first half of the season and finishing 5th.

You should have been at the 2006 AGM when MM dismissed and insulted a member who said it wasn’t good enough.

I think our mistake was never our culture, it was taking our success in 2002 and 2003 for granted

You see, you just did it. We didn’t succeed in 2002 or 2003. What’s worse we still have the same list deficiencies.

 

[doppleganger]

What the feck is club culture?????

It is simply to do with what players and leaders are at the club at a particular time..................our culture now is different from what it was in the 90's, which is different to what the culture was in the 80's, which is different to what the culture was in the 70's........etc.

West Coast have a culture of winning, that is the kind of culture i want!

 

[tonywce23]

If you have to be anal holes like WCE, then I would prefer not to win a flag if becoming drug taking pedophiles is the way to get there.

Of course this would fit in with the culture of Olympus.

And who exactly at West Coast are you calling a pedophile?

 

[Jabso]

Good points MarkT re. agm stuff but if you are expecting a coach to be honest, even at AGMs you are expecting too much.
Look at Wallace, he is being pretty honest in his appraisal of the list but he gets so much backlash over it.

AGMs aren't discussions or even meetings, they are glorified sales pitches. Mick I concede is pigheaded and defensive of criticism directed at himself and at the playing group but he is also a salesman. It is his duty to spin for the masses. However this does not necessarily mean he will go back to the playing group after the AGM and say "it's alright fellas, we made the grand final" or "don't worry it was only because of injuries".

Please don't get technical with me calling the grand final years successes, I basically meant that we rested on our laurels, and didn't do enough to improve our team for the next few years to win a premiership which is the ultimate goal. If I put the word success in quotation marks or said "relative sucess" there would be no problem. I also never meant the club packed it in and called it a day, thinking that the grand final appearances were good enough, after the grand finals, I meant they thought they'd improve automatically and once again be a contender and that it was only a matter of time.

I still believe our culture is a very good one both in terms of a winning/strive to succeed (really succeed) type culture and in the off-field demeanor area. Optimism from supporters, and perhaps even blind faith, isn't a sign of lack of passion or drive for the club to succeed.

 

[MarkT]

Good points MarkT re. agm stuff but if you are expecting a coach to be honest, even at AGMs you are expecting too much.

Honesty is one thing. Not sure if you have been but it hasn’t just been the honesty factor that upsets me. It was also the way questions have been handled and the dismissive nature and apparent ignorance of what has turned into virtual prophesy. Head in the sand or positive spin are one thing but this can (should?) be done acknowledging flaws and without taking offence in the circumstances. Ultimately what matter most is what action gets taken not what words are spoken and we haven’t taken the action – hence the list we have and the results we have achieved.

Please don't get technical with me calling the grand final years successes, I basically meant that we rested on our laurels, and didn't do enough to improve our team for the next few years to win a premiership which is the ultimate goal.

You are right to a point but the technicality of that is what it is is of paramount importance IMO. Seeing losing GF’s as success is what we did and that to a large degree is why we didn’t make the list and off field changes that may have seen us succeed. What additionally bothers me is that we still have the same list issues.