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Coaching Staff/Tuck

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How much longer can they keep it up?

They went close to owing us 10 Premiership points tonight when they decided to sub Tuck off and leave a kid like Helbig on the ground. I really like the way Helbig goes about his football, but every time he's played a full game he's barely touched the ball in the 2nd half and I can't recall him getting a single one tonight after half time.

It's great to expose him and our other juniors to these occasions and he acquitted himself well in the first half, but he was always going to fade out of the game. He was clearly the tactically sound sub candidate for not only this highly important reason, but also for two other equally important ones - Tuck can play anywhere and do extra time for us if we lose a man.

Grimes goes down earlier and we're effectively two men down for 40% of a match with him gone and Helbig on the field but never touching it. Essendon's ratio of unpressured centre clearances grew significantly once he went off - in the first minute no less. It was a tactical blunder so bad it should be illegal.

So I ask you, how long will the coaching staff continue this ridiculous charade? How much longer are they going to publicly humiliate one of the most honest, consistent and valuable players this club has had in the modern era? What piss-poor reasoning could they possibly come up with for hurting the team's chances with their irrational bias against Tuck this time around?

Disgraceful sour note to an otherwise good performance - we scraped home despite Hardwick's colossal ignorance thanks far more to good luck, an undermanned opponent and some huge efforts from the players than good management. :thumbsd:
 
whilst I wouldnt go as far as calling it disgraceful i am surpised plenty that helbig has had so much footy...he is very raw, and now that we have designs on winning games...we shouldnt be carrying anyone. he loses far too many one on ones, with connors, white, edwards on sidelines he should not get a game right now, he has plenty of time to develop.

On tucky, i wouldnt be breaking my neck over his sub, he made a couple of colossal **** ups for an experienced player, he can't afford to be making them at this stage of his career with the number of players knocking on the door
 
Maybe I'm a tad cynical but I was happy to see tuck get subbed - he was a major liability and didn't seem to offer much.

Helbig is very raw - thought he was alright but wouldn't mind seeing webbs get a run soon.
 

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I thought Helbig was going to be subbed too. Not that he's a bad player, but he's just lost a bit of touch after the first couple of games. He's got a taste which is good but Tucky should have still been out there.

I agree with Bo - the one on ones are the main concern (not really because he's still young, so in context) at the moment.
 
whilst I wouldnt go as far as calling it disgraceful i am surpised plenty that helbig has had so much footy...he is very raw, and now that we have designs on winning games...we shouldnt be carrying anyone. he loses far too many one on ones, with connors, white, edwards on sidelines he should not get a game right now, he has plenty of time to develop.

Makes no sense Bo. What do you learn running around not touching the ball because you're knackered that you can't learn from the bench?

On tucky, i wouldnt be breaking my neck over his sub, he made a couple of colossal **** ups for an experienced player, he can't afford to be making them at this stage of his career with the number of players knocking on the door

**** ups like Cotchin kicking straight into an opponent and then out on the full when the ball bounced back to him? ;) Tucky's get remembered in stone, those from certain other players get remembered in sand...washed away in the next tide of play. ;) And if we were going to bench a bloke for howling disposal errors, I dare say Grigg was light years ahead of the pack Tuck was in mate.

FWIW, I thought Cotchin was magnificent before anyone decides to assume otherwise, he was again defensively sub-par in the middle, but so brilliant with his clearances it far outweighed that, tonight at least. Oh, and outweighed his clangers. ;)

The big crime tonight was, Tucky tagging, Bad move. Hard bustling clearance guns just dont tag.

He must be so disillusioned with his football, really terrible coaching to do what they've done to him...it verges on being Voss-like such is the extent of its harmful ignorance.
 
How much longer can they keep it up?

They went close to owing us 10 Premiership points tonight when they decided to sub Tuck off and leave a kid like Helbig on the ground. I really like the way Helbig goes about his football, but every time he's played a full game he's barely touched the ball in the 2nd half and I can't recall him getting a single one tonight after half time.

It's great to expose him and our other juniors to these occasions and he acquitted himself well in the first half, but he was always going to fade out of the game. He was clearly the tactically sound sub candidate for not only this highly important reason, but also for two other equally important ones - Tuck can play anywhere and do extra time for us if we lose a man.

Grimes goes down earlier and we're effectively two men down for 40% of a match with him gone and Helbig on the field but never touching it. Essendon's ratio of unpressured centre clearances grew significantly once he went off - in the first minute no less. It was a tactical blunder so bad it should be illegal.

So I ask you, how long will the coaching staff continue this ridiculous charade? How much longer are they going to publicly humiliate one of the most honest, consistent and valuable players this club has had in the modern era? What piss-poor reasoning could they possibly come up with for hurting the team's chances with their irrational bias against Tuck this time around?

Disgraceful sour note to an otherwise good performance - we scraped home despite Hardwick's colossal ignorance thanks far more to good luck, an undermanned opponent and some huge efforts from the players than good management. :thumbsd:

I agree....

Hardwick is backing his judgement and he needs too ... but he has made a few bad calls with the number 1 bad call was Leaving Tuck out of the side against Carlton.
Starting Foley on the bench and Martin up forward against the dogs was plain DUMB... cost us dearly early and allowed the dogs to get their shit together and tails up. We should be in the top 4 now.
 
Ever thought it possible that Tuck was subbed because he was coming back of a rib cartledge injury after 2 weeks and just might have been a little short of a gallop.
 
Myers burnt off helbig twice in the 2nd half, and well lets face it myers would lose a race to inzamam ul huq.

Helbig great kick when he gets the ball, does not get it nearly enough sort of like a poorer version of white (without the leg speed or the ability to tag) for mine, hopefully white will get back and take that place for next week, or after the break at worst.
 
Myers burnt off helbig twice in the 2nd half, and well lets face it myers would lose a race to inzamam ul huq.

Helbig great kick when he gets the ball, does not get it nearly enough sort of like a poorer version of white (without the leg speed or the ability to tag) for mine, hopefully white will get back and take that place for next week, or after the break at worst.

Considering we have Port then the bye. We might rest a couple of our injured players to get them fit and firing after the bye.
 

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Such a shame tigers are playing port in the middle of nowhere, would be great to get a heap of people at the dome, and really smash them, make them pay for spoiling the party in rnd 22 last year.

yeah perhaps give white the extra couple of weeks off or anyone else under a cloud, would be nice to see webberly come in if vfl form warrants, was servicable last year, and looked like he could be a player.

Tuck should be a must everygame, cannot understand the coaching staff, thought we figured out last year after making him miss the first few weeks, and then come in and give his all that he is a required player.
 
I'm so glad we have the right people in charge instead of hero posters such as Rayzor.

Unusual for you to offer absolutely zero to the discussion except abuse MT2.

If I dub thee 'Hero Poster Slayer' and mail you a sticker will you get back in your box and let the adults have a discussion?

I agree....

Hardwick is backing his judgement and he needs too ... but he has made a few bad calls with the number 1 bad call was Leaving Tuck out of the side against Carlton.
Starting Foley on the bench and Martin up forward against the dogs was plain DUMB... cost us dearly early and allowed the dogs to get their shit together and tails up. We should be in the top 4 now.

Sad situation nut, we'd almost certainly be finals bound without those decisions, now we'll have to scrap every inch of the way and could even miss. We went a lot closer to blowing the game tonight than the scoreboard showed.

Your sir are a disgrace for opening this thread. Tuck was worst on ground. Everything he touched turned over. Helbig was good. Get a bloody grip.

Tuck had a couple of disposal errors like all our players until the point he was subbed off, you're exaggerating ridiculously - which is hardly unusual for you, is it? He locked up the centre numerous times at crucial stages where the Dons were away without him there and was subbed off with a higher disposal efficiency than Cotchin managed for the game. Everyone knows he's likely to have a couple of clanger kicks and far outweigh them with the rest of what he does.

His real 'Tuck moment' kick was after an excellent contested pack mark and 30 seconds later he was ushering ball and opponent over the boundary line. Really damaging stuff eh, much worse than the 3-4 goals Grigg's disposal directly cost us, not to mention the fact he was too frightened to even kick the ball after half time? :rolleyes:

I said Helbig did well for a kid, have said it all season, but the fact is he didn't touch it in the 2nd half, it's a recurring theme - do you want to win games and get these kids some invaluable finals experience, or risk losing games you've got in the bag and risk finishing 9th again by carrying onfield spectators for half a match?

---------

RT, rather than backing out of preview to quote you, let me just say, if you saw Tuck's reaction to getting benched you'd realise that excuse isn't going to fly for them, there was absolutely nothing wrong with him and he was disgusted with being subbed. If anything he needed the run to get some touch after being buggered around all season.
 
RT, rather than backing out of preview to quote you, let me just say, if you saw Tuck's reaction to getting benched you'd realise that excuse isn't going to fly for them, there was absolutely nothing wrong with him and he was disgusted with being subbed. If anything he needed the run to get some touch after being buggered around all season.
Haven't watched the replay nor did I get to see his reaction at the ground just throwing up a possible reason as to why it happened.
 
How much longer can they keep it up?

They went close to owing us 10 Premiership points tonight when they decided to sub Tuck off and leave a kid like Helbig on the ground. I really like the way Helbig goes about his football, but every time he's played a full game he's barely touched the ball in the 2nd half and I can't recall him getting a single one tonight after half time.

It's great to expose him and our other juniors to these occasions and he acquitted himself well in the first half, but he was always going to fade out of the game. He was clearly the tactically sound sub candidate for not only this highly important reason, but also for two other equally important ones - Tuck can play anywhere and do extra time for us if we lose a man.

Grimes goes down earlier and we're effectively two men down for 40% of a match with him gone and Helbig on the field but never touching it. Essendon's ratio of unpressured centre clearances grew significantly once he went off - in the first minute no less. It was a tactical blunder so bad it should be illegal.

So I ask you, how long will the coaching staff continue this ridiculous charade? How much longer are they going to publicly humiliate one of the most honest, consistent and valuable players this club has had in the modern era? What piss-poor reasoning could they possibly come up with for hurting the team's chances with their irrational bias against Tuck this time around?

Disgraceful sour note to an otherwise good performance - we scraped home despite Hardwick's colossal ignorance thanks far more to good luck, an undermanned opponent and some huge efforts from the players than good management. :thumbsd:

I dont disagree...:thumbsu:...

Tucky did do a few stuff ups tonight...maybe he was short of a gallop...
 
Hmmmm, maybe you're reading too much into it?

I thought Tuck deserved to be subbed off tonight because he was bloody ordinary.
 
lol

love the way razor can give us a play by play description of the errors players like cotch and Lids make and yet I dont think i've ever seen him individually highlight specific errors his love children Tuck and jackson make.... get ur head out of ur arse and peddle your propaganda elsewhere.

I know we must be on a good thing with Dimma in charge bc like the examples above, Razor loves to give us play by plays on Dimmas stuff ups and yet the same poster will tell you that Wallace was the greatest thing that ever walked through our door - never a specific bad word have i seen him mention about the tanned one.....lol bizzarro world much?
 

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Hmmmm, maybe you're reading too much into it?

I thought Tuck deserved to be subbed off tonight because he was bloody ordinary.
I agree. I love Tucky but out of everyone it was either him or the Postman that would be subbed, and we certainly couldn't afford to sub a forward.

I think the right call was made :thumbsu:
 
Hmmmm, maybe you're reading too much into it?

I thought Tuck deserved to be subbed off tonight because he was bloody ordinary.

FWIW, at the point he was subbed off he had a higher game rating (which heavily punishes errors) than Newman, Foley, Reiwoldt, Vickery, Houli, Jackson, Grigg, Batchelor, Grimes, Post, McGuane, Helbig, Nahas and Browne - our 7th best player to that stage by game ratings, playing largely in a tagging role. Even missing 1/3rd of the game he nearly doubled Helbig's match rating, so perhaps you may have judged him more than a little harshly?

Grigg's disposal and decision making was so poor he had an almost identical rating to Tuck's from nearly double the possessions - and not a single tackle, yet again. He played out the game afraid to even kick the ball - lost his confidence to such a dramatic degree he went into total damage control mode.

People make a hell of a lot out of a couple of non-harmful disposal errors, every player makes disposal errors, Tuck was better in his output than most of the side until subbed off if you look at what he did as a whole rather than focus too heavily on a couple of incidents.

And the rhetorical key question remains, would we have got more than the absolutely nothing we could reasonably expect from Helbig out of another 1/3rd of a game from Tuck?
 
lol

love the way razor can give us a play by play description of the errors players like cotch and Lids make and yet I dont think i've ever seen him individually highlight specific errors his love children Tuck and jackson make.... get ur head out of ur arse and peddle your propaganda elsewhere.

How could I possibly highlight errors that have already been pointed out? :rolleyes:

In the interest of fairness I contrast them with those from players who also make mistakes, but they're quickly forgotten.

Am I down to only two 'love children' now practically everyone else agrees on the value of my others?

I know we must be on a good thing with Dimma in charge bc like the examples above, Razor loves to give us play by plays on Dimmas stuff ups and yet the same poster will tell you that Wallace was the greatest thing that ever walked through our door - never a specific bad word have i seen him mention about the tanned one.....lol bizzarro world much?

My version of 'bizarro world' is conceding all of Wallace's ACTUAL mistakes time and time again, only to have goldfish memory snipers like you quite deliberately overlook that small fact time and time again in order to further your ambitions to roll out lame comedy routines.

Hardwick would be the first to admit that Wallace is in a different league tactically, as he should be with all his experience and knowledge. If some day Hardwick can boast victories over coaches of the calibre of Malthouse, Matthews and Sheedy while taking in significantly worse playing lists, then he'd have earned the right to think otherwise.

At this stage I'm impressed with many elements of his coaching, but he's made plenty of match-day howlers on the tactical front and IMO it's shaping like his area of weakness. As I've said before, each of the two has undeniable strengths and weaknesses.
 
Your sir are a disgrace for opening this thread. Tuck was worst on ground. Everything he touched turned over. Helbig was good. Get a bloody grip.


Bingo. Unfortunately the game is well passed Tucky. Yes he may offer some inside clearance work, but that is where his effectiveness stops and his liabilities start to kick in. Gives us no run; is too slow; can't hit a target and can only bomb to a contest. Simply not AFL worthy. Not enough hurt factors or strings to tucky's bow unfortunately.

GO TIGES!!!
 
It's funny Rayzor, after a fantastic win by the boys your first complaint was about your Golden Boy Tuck being subbed off. :rolleyes:

Never saw that one coming!
 

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