Coaching tactics

[ajmart]

For some weeks now, I have been worried about the tactics of rotation.

We constantly rotate our ruckmen at about the halfway mark of the quarter no matter how they are playing nor the state of the game. Bickley is also rotated about the same time.

To demonstrate my point, in the first quarter on Sunday, Biglands was playing quite well, having had 5 possessions plus some ruck taps. 13 minutes and 59 seconds into the quarter he was replaced by Clarke who had only 1 possession. Biglands started again in the second quarter but had lost his momentum and was soundly being beaten but no change was made until the 16 minute mark of the quarter at which stage Freo was in full flight.

Mark Bickley also had 5 possessions in the first part of the first quarter before he was replaced and tended to lose his form as well.

I cannot understand how our players seem incapable of playing a full match ( in the coach's eyes). Surely if a player is going well allow him to continue and only make changes if necessary. And if a player is not going well, surely make changes immediately but not wait until the clock gets to a pre-determined point before making a move.

I was at the match in Perth and the TV didn't give an accurate view of our ineptitude at times. At the ground one sees all the alternatives facing the player with the ball and some of our decision making was lamentable.

As for our goal kicking, it's no good playing men in the forward line if they cannot convert. Except for the Carlton match, Stiffy's conversion rate is dreadful and he needs to spend some time on this aspect of his game. I was pleased to see him dragged, even if it was 15 minutes too late, as he did not seem interested if he didn't get the ball when he first tried and put no pressure on his opponent. Smart's kicking was woeful.

Any comments?

Cheers,

a.j.

 

[Stiffy_18]

I am all in favour of rotations as they tend to give us fresh legs to run out the game. Its not a matter of one game, you have to have the full picture. Whats the point of playing the likes of McLeod and Ricciuto for full games in the midfield for the duration of the season when they are buggered come finals time. Beats the purpose really.

I am all in favour of rotations but not as strict as we tend to stick to them. If one ruckman is getting beaten then make the move and let the ruckman that is being beaten sit on the bench and think how he can improve. I reckon our ruck rotations have been working really well for the last couple of years. Fremantle game its an exception.

At the beginning of the year Bickley / Bode rotation was working great. Both players were getting 20 odd touches in half a game. No one was complaining back them. For some reason that rotation has been mucked around with and hence Bickley gets more game time than before and Bode has hardly any game time. As a result I think Bode's form has suffered. Go back to how it was at the start of the year and it works wonders.

 

[blighty]

Think you put too much emphasis on the rotation as to the cause of the defeat.
I thought we were let down badly by our decision making under pressure especially entering the forward 50.But we've been like this all year so it's nothing new.

Shots for goal from experienced players running into goal running directly at the goal are pathetic.Bode didn't make the distance,Begley sprayed it twice,Smart looked out of sorts all day.....Roo's poor disposal on two occasions going straight at the goal, Ladhams miss when in the clear........and John****'s overall four quarter effort was one of the worst he's ever put in.Touch of arrogance in the way he plays up forward....he 's far and away a better shot for goal when coming off a back flank.

I thought the lack of contribution by Edwards, McGregor,[in the first qtr couldn't take a grab when put there for that reason]Bode, John**** Bassett & Smart as experienced players was the major reason why we lost.The defence played poorly.

Once Carey & Welch & Massie dropped out it required a solid team performance from everyone.Farmer was given far too much space by Edwards.McManus got heaps of it in that second quarter & the lack of pressure put on Simmons around the ground allowed him to wander almost at will without an opponent , his goal in the last qtr being decisive.

Another factor was our lack of defence stategy for the final minutes of a game. It happened against Collingwood where the ball was allowed to travel a 100 yards with 40 seconds to play, again over the weekend we should have been able to apply defensive pressure to keep that ball in our half after Burton kicked his goal... We must know how to protect a lead........As with Tarrant able to mark unopposed so did Farmer not have any pressure put on him a] when contesting the mark in space, & B] absolutely no pressure on him on the mark...

Poor playing performance, pathetic decision making, a lack of expected input by the so called experienced players & lack of tactical nouse were all more the reasons than the rotation.

 

[ajmart]

I was not saying that rotations cost us the Freo game. My point was that to rotate players at set times not matter what the state of the game is the problem.

If players have to rest all the time then I would query their fitness. Bell, Voss, Lappin, West, Buckley, to name a few, don't get constantly rotated and are always high in their team's best players

I agree we have to be smarter under pressure in the last minutes of close games. Is this a coaching problem or are our on-field leaders not doing their job ? Other teams seem to know how much time is left in close games and play accordingly. Neil Kerley last night on 5AA was scathing of the "footy-smarts" of Clarke, Biglands, Perrie, Torney, Stenglein, MacGregor. Whilst I think he was over-reacting, I hope the coaching staff is looking at how we react on the field in these close losses.

However, as I said in the original thread, our decision making was lamentable at times and cost us dearly.

Cheers,

a.j.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by ajmart
If players have to rest all the time then I would query their fitness. Bell, Voss, Lappin, West, Buckley, to name a few, don't get constantly rotated and are always high in their team's best players

Cheers,

a.j.

The last thing I would query is players fitness. Adelaide are one of the fittest sides in the AFL. Both Burton and Bode are running under 15 minutes in 5km time trials. World record is 12 min 39 sec. All those players you have mentioned are given a rest. Bell goes to back pocket, Voss, Lappin and Buckley go forward. I am not sure about West.

Fitness is not a problem. As I said you need to look at the bigger picture than just a game or 2. If you don't rotate your midfielders through out the season, the wear and tear, as well as the fatigue set in come finals time.

A lot of people say that it never happened in the old days. True. But the game has become so much faster. Players cover more ground and are fitter than ever before. If you want to be successful at this level come finals time you need to rotate players.

Port are on top of the ladder yet they have as many rotations, if not more than we do. It doesn't bother them. In order for rotations to work you need every player to give 110%. As I said earlier in the season Clarke/Biglands and Bickley/Bode rotations were working great. Now in order for those rotations to work again they would have to be given the same game time as before and players involved in those rotations, when on the gorund, have to play like their life depended on it.

If it wasn't for rotations we would not be able to run out the game in the 4 th quarter. Remember what happened against Collingwood in the prelim last year?????? We ran out of legs because Edwards and McLeod were injured earlier i the game and our rotations went out the window

 

[macca23]

Stiffy's right of course. Rotations are part of player management to ensure they survive not only the match but the hardships of the whole season.

The real concern in my book with the coaching tactics has been well summed up in blighty's post - the lack of defensive tactics to protect a lead which has cost us a minimum of 2 games - Collingwood and now Freo, as well as second place!! And maybe a genuine crack at a flag!!

I respect our coaching staff in virtually all areas, but this isn't one of them!!

 

[DJarman]

Originally posted by ajmart


As for our goal kicking, it's no good playing men in the forward line if they cannot convert. Except for the Carlton match, Stiffy's conversion rate is dreadful and he needs to spend some time on this aspect of his game. I was pleased to see him dragged, even if it was 15 minutes too late, as he did not seem interested if he didn't get the ball when he first tried and put no pressure on his opponent. Smart's kicking was woeful.

Any comments?

Cheers,

a.j.

I think I remember seeing something on tv this year saying that John**** is the worst set shot kick in the club.

I feel the same way and John****, he plays his best footy in the backline (drifts forward and kicks a goal).

 

[DaveW]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
The last thing I would query is players fitness. Adelaide are one of the fittest sides in the AFL. Both Burton and Bode are running under 15 minutes in 5km time trials. World record is 12 min 39 sec.

We were sure made to look slow at times by Fremantle on the weekend. Especially in that 2nd quarter.

 

[Nige_Bix]

Originally posted by macca23
The real concern in my book with the coaching tactics has been well summed up in blighty's post - the lack of defensive tactics to protect a lead which has cost us a minimum of 2 games - Collingwood and now Freo, as well as second place!! And maybe a genuine crack at a flag!!

I respect our coaching staff in virtually all areas, but this isn't one of them!!

My thoughts exactly - I am happy overall with the coaching staff but i think there are times when we can be more defensive and play the percentages better.

Farmer's ability to run around like he did an that ast 1/4 was awful - Ben Allan picked it well before he had his kick - I cant understand why someone wasnt told to close him down!

I am concerned that losing so many close games can become a habit and also can be the result of a lack of accountability and defensive pressure. There are times too when sides can get away from us and we take a long time to rein them in!

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by dezzmo
My thoughts exactly - I am happy overall with the coaching staff but i think there are times when we can be more defensive and play the percentages better.

Farmer's ability to run around like he did an that ast 1/4 was awful - Ben Allan picked it well before he had his kick - I cant understand why someone wasnt told to close him down!

I am concerned that losing so many close games can become a habit and also can be the result of a lack of accountability and defensive pressure. There are times too when sides can get away from us and we take a long time to rein them in!

There is no question that tactics should be reviewed and fine tuned. It is an amazing statistic that the average losing margin is 8.2 points. However, we have lost 3 games that we never should have lost. All these by either lack of accountability or lack of mental application. Those losses will no doubt come back to bite us on the bum. It will be the difference between top 4 finish and making up the numbers as I cannot see a side winning a premiership if htey don't finish in the top 4.

Hopefully we can win 4-5 of the last 6 and get a position in the top 4. We need to pay some attention to our defensive tactics. I am not saying flood. But when the going gets tough play a man on man accountable style of footy or even have a couple of extra players in defence to ease the pressure.

 

[ant]

Re: Re: Coaching tactics

Originally posted by DJarman
I think I remember seeing something on tv this year saying that John**** is the worst set shot kick in the club.

I feel the same way and John****, he plays his best footy in the backline (drifts forward and kicks a goal).

I think that was Jars on the Crows Show saying how out of 20 set shots at goal from various positions, Stiffy will kick on average approx. 12 out of 20, while Roo will regularly slot every one (or close enough to it).

Makes you wonder why Stiffy plays more close to goal nowadays, when he is mostly a liability in front of the big sticks. I'd suggest it has something to do with having forwards being able to supply pressure on the ball coming out, but personally, I'd have him back in the back half in the run into the finals.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Re: Re: Re: Coaching tactics

Originally posted by ant
I'd suggest it has something to do with having forwards being able to supply pressure on the ball coming out,

Thats the only reason I can see him as a forward. His kicking definetly has to improve. There is no question his best footy is played off half back flank.

I agree with you ant, with Welshy coming back into the side I would switch Johncock to defence.

 

[The Passenger]

i've always thought that rotations are essential but they must be timed well and not done on an inflexible basis, i.e. at 15 minutes Biglands is replaced by clarke, at 20 minutes Bickley goes out of the middle and someone else goes in, and at 25 minutes Ricciuto has a rest and someone else goes in.

The coach needs to keep on top of who has been playing in the centre, and keep it very stringently.

I reckon the best way to look it is there are 3 onballers and 4 quarters, so you have about 12 quarters to fill with players in the centre. You have 3 main on-ballers, who play between 1.5 and 2.5 quarters as an on-baller (totalling about 6 between the 3), while you have 3 reserve on ballers who play between 1 and 1.5 quarters in the middle (totalling about 4 between those 3 guys), and the final 2 quarters would be filled up by rotational players who play about 0.25 or 0.5 of a quarter in the middle to give your main 6 on-ballers a rest.

I don't know about Adelaide, but for West Coast I'd have Cousins, Kerr, Judd and Fletcher as the main on-ballers, Chick and Braun as the reserve on ballers, with rotations from Wooden, Jones, Adkins, Read, and whoever else happens to be playing that can play in the middle.

I reckon at the end of a match you should have had at least 10 players go through the middle at some point or another (even if its for only 5-10 minutes), and you'd rather have 12 or more. The more rest you can give to your main onballers the better because they'll be fresher and better when they are in there, and cause more damage.

I also reckon that you should have no more than 4 or 5 guys who play out the entire game on the field, and preferably you'd like to have as close to 0 players as possible who don't get any time on the bench.

As for rotation of the ruckman, these needs to be a completely based on how the ruckman is going and how tired he is - if he's good enough to play out an entire half and still dominate than so be it, as long as your sure he can come back for the second half and still perform.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

As has already been mentioned, rotations are a necessary part of the game to keep players fresh - but we have not been flexible enough on their use. Swapping players over at the 15 min mark regardless of form on the day is stupid. Last year whichever ruckman was performing better on the day got more minutes. This year we seem to be swapping them half way through each quarter often to the detriment of the side.

On Stiffy, I mentioned earlier in the year, I saw him predominantly as a backline player, as he drops out of the game too much forward. Better used there as a pinch hitter. With these kicking stats, I'm even more convinced.

 

[DaveW]

Originally posted by Black Thunder
I don't know about Adelaide,

I'll draw the comparisons then.

but for West Coast I'd have Cousins, Kerr, Judd and Fletcher as the main on-ballers,

Ricciuto, McLeod, Bickley and Goodwin

Chick and Braun as the reserve on ballers,

Bode and Ladhams

with rotations from Wooden, Jones, Adkins, Read, and whoever else happens to be playing that can play in the middle.

Edwards, Stenglein, Burton, Shirley, Johncock, Begley, Doughty, Gallagher (obviously not all will be the in the side in the one week)

I've bumped Edwards down to the third category since he's been great in defence lately. I guess Stenglein might be in the top category depending on what you define as an on-baller.

 

[tribey]

I'd just like to see us not give the opposition an open forward-line when there's minutes left in a match.

Fremantle, Collingwood and St. Kilda all got soft winning goals this way. Why?!! Flood the defence and make them work to get the winning goal... if they score an arsey goal from 55 metres out or take a hanger over a pack of 10 then so be it!

But fair dinkum... Farmer, Tarrant and Milne all scored soft goals that broke our hearts. Shouldn't happen.

 

[iceman21]

Can't complain too much about how Hard the players go at it - this has definately improved during Ayers time at the club but he is far to set in his game plan and takes too long to react to what is actually happening during the game.

as examples

Freo game - Edwards was soundly beaten by Farmer - no change, he could have perhaps tried Johnc ock on him

Collingwood game - Mattner on Woewodin was a poor match up that went unchanged for 3 quarters

He is far too set in the way he rotates players, fair enough to take a player off to rest them but its almost like he has a stopwatch and makes changes acording to that - all pre-meditated, then if a player is injured he is stuffed (remember Collingwood final, Edwards and McLeod- we ended up runing out of legs)

just a few examples

apart from the inflexible part of his coaching I recon Ayres has done quite a good job with the teams he has had on the park

 

[iceman21]

Originally posted by DJarman
I think I remember seeing something on tv this year saying that John**** is the worst set shot kick in the club.

I feel the same way and John****, he plays his best footy in the backline (drifts forward and kicks a goal).

Have to agree here, Johnc ock plays his best footy in the backline, then perhaps rotated through the midfield (as was happening earlier in the season to good effect)