Collingwood and racism

[WakeUpPies]

Most people who make racist comments are just idiots, not racists. I still remember a few years ago in that final against Sydney (Rocca looked done at half time, then came back and kicked few more goals).

Some dude calls Micky-O a black c**t
Moments later...
Same dude calls out
"Leon you legend!!!!"

mind = blown

 

[TradeDraft]

Hmm, glass houses?

Wasn't it against West Coast where Buddy Franklin was racially abused (all be it in Tassie, but I doubt he was a Hawks fan)?

Did the Media said it was a Pies Fan?

 

[upnsmoke]

Australia has a "lack" in racism clamping though...

in the states, you WILL NEVER hear anyone on the sports arena diss the opposition team's players no matter their race, because it is TABOO and it is heavily looked down upon.

In Oz, the numerous background ethnicity of the people have bred a tiny smidgen of tolerance on small, race base jokes or labels... basically, Australians consider some tiny bit of racist remarks as humorous and people who take offend to them are behaving "Un-Australian" and lacking "humour".

Hence, although racism is "BAD", some people say "racist" remarks with tongue in cheek and they get away with it, by simply saying "just joking" or "its a compliment".

Basically, Australians have some sort of tolerance to racism, unfortunately some people are willing to use this "loop" hole or leniency.

In the states, there is no tolerance, and the racists folks are underground.... or they keep it to themselves. Australia needs to be more strict and should frown down on racism with more conviction to stamp it out completely.

 

[mattys123]

Did the Media said it was a Pies Fan?

They tried to say that, but that was never proven.

What I'm basically getting at is that every club would have at least a few supporters who still think racism is ok if it's meant as a joke, and the Herald Sun beatup of Pies fans is getting quite tiresome really.

At least they can't sit behind our cheersquad this week.

 

[MadeinWA]

Hmm, glass houses?

Wasn't it against West Coast where Buddy Franklin was racially abused (all be it in Tassie, but I doubt he was a Hawks fan)?

yeah well the point is nicky winmar didnt pull his jumper up at the scg, or optus oval or waverly or subi he pulled it up at victoria park and when you have the president saying the things that idiot said afterwards its hard to get rid of that stigma.

 

[mattys123]

yeah well the point is nicky winmar didnt pull his jumper up at the scg, or optus oval or waverly or subi he pulled it up at victoria park and when you have the president saying the things that idiot said afterwards its hard to get rid of that stigma.

Ok, so by that thinking, all West Coast players are on recreational drugs, just because you went through a small period in your clubs history where those type of drugs were a problem, and weren't handled correctly?

You can't just say that one club or one particular group (in this case our supporters) have a racist stigma attached to them, because simply put, they do not, anymore then other clubs do IMO, especially now.

The fact is, that Herald Sun article used the word "tip rat" and tried to say that it was used in a racist tone, when anyone who has used the word, or knows it's origins knows it's more of a "class" based comment rather then a racial one.

This so called incident from the HS article didn't actually, at any point refer to any one making any other racist comments other then the word tip rat, and to say that is a racist word, or has racist tones is laughable.

 

[jonbe54]

yeah well the point is nicky winmar didnt pull his jumper up at the scg, or optus oval or waverly or subi he pulled it up at victoria park and when you have the president saying the things that idiot said afterwards its hard to get rid of that stigma.

Especially when people won't let it die eh

 

[MadeinWA]

Ok, so by that thinking, all West Coast players are on recreational drugs, just because you went through a small period in your clubs history where those type of drugs were a problem, and weren't handled correctly?

You can't just say that one club or one particular group (in this case our supporters) have a racist stigma attached to them, because simply put, they do not, anymore then other clubs do IMO, especially now.

The fact is, that Herald Sun article used the word "tip rat" and tried to say that it was used in a racist tone, when anyone who has used the word, or knows it's origins knows it's more of a "class" based comment rather then a racial one.

This so called incident from the HS article didn't actually, at any point refer to any one making any other racist comments other then the word tip rat, and to say that is a racist word, or has racist tones is laughable.

haha isnt it funny how every club has there awkward stereotypes. collingwood are racists and west coast are junkies

 

[Nerv_01]

Sorry to intrude but I think the majority of you are members so you sit in a section where the people around you are probably relatively intelligent and well behaved (have sat in the Collingwood members with a mate before and it was fine). But when I have sat in General admission areas at Carl v Coll(home) games there has been a fair bit of racial abuse directed at Eddie Betts. I'm not suggesting it's just a Collingwood thing because I know there are these people at every club especially ones with large supporter bases. So I do think it's unfair that Collingwood are being singled out, especially given the worst racism I have ever heard was from Bulldogs supporters in 2009.

 

[jonbe54]

Sorry to intrude but I think the majority of you are members so you sit in a section where the people around you are probably relatively intelligent and well behaved (have sat in the Collingwood members with a mate before and it was fine). But when I have sat in General admission areas at Carl v Coll(home) games there has been a fair bit of racial abuse directed at Eddie Betts. I'm not suggesting it's just a Collingwood thing because I know there are these people at every club especially ones with large supporter bases. So I do think it's unfair that Collingwood are being singled out, especially given the worst racism I have ever heard was from Bulldogs supporters in 2009.

Good point nerv the members IS much more well behaved. When I've attended other games and used General admission areas it has got pretty gritty.

 

[Prestigerrycomo]

See this is the problem making racism a single club issue. It then allows racists who support other teams to get away with it.

 

[MadeinWA]

yeah well at subiaco the vast majority of the seating is members where the g is more accesible to the general public ive only been to the g once and the general admission standing areas are more of a standing in a pub atmosphere so i can definetly see how the tongues would get looser in those areas. plus you can drink full strength piss in melbourne but not in nanny state perth thats gotta be a factor.

 

[Helfarch]

Racism isn't a Collingwood problem, despite media attempts to make it out to be.

It's a social problem, particularly when you have politicians playing on borderline racist policies to score a few votes.

The rise in racism in Australia is a result of the dirty, embarrassing politics in the country.

Only one football man has pointed that out this year, and that was Eddie Macguire after the Krakouer incident. He made a stinging attack on the racist political discourse being led by Gillard and Abbott, and he was absolutely right.

Don't expect Herald Sun trash to see it that way though.

While it's all well and good to have idealised policies and say let everyone in the poor dears. The reality is being able to control your borders and whom gets to enter your country is a bloody good thing.

Unfortunately countries with uncontrolled borders turn to shit. It's just a good thing we're an island or we might actually understand Israel, Yemen etc.

Australia has a "lack" in racism clamping though...

in the states, you WILL NEVER hear anyone on the sports arena diss the opposition team's players no matter their race, because it is TABOO and it is heavily looked down upon.

In Oz, the numerous background ethnicity of the people have bred a tiny smidgen of tolerance on small, race base jokes or labels... basically, Australians consider some tiny bit of racist remarks as humorous and people who take offend to them are behaving "Un-Australian" and lacking "humour".

Hence, although racism is "BAD", some people say "racist" remarks with tongue in cheek and they get away with it, by simply saying "just joking" or "its a compliment".

Basically, Australians have some sort of tolerance to racism, unfortunately some people are willing to use this "loop" hole or leniency.

In the states, there is no tolerance, and the racists folks are underground.... or they keep it to themselves. Australia needs to be more strict and should frown down on racism with more conviction to stamp it out completely.

What a load of crap. Racism is alive and well as it is in all cultures around the world. Australia is one of the least racist societies on Earth it's just most Australians don't know any better.

It appears you are one of these people. Your perception of 'no tolerance' in the US is merely their ingrained slave guilt which pervades thier politics and skewed policies.

Also 5 seconds searching
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5626061

Appears to be at least one report from every year in the NFL alone.

Society isn't falling apart just because a couple of idiots get pissed and yell something nasty.

 

[Syphoncom]

I don't really want to get into this discussion as it's probably not going to be the best on these forums and it's slightly depressing lol. But having said that, whilst I think Australia is an amazing country, it's certainly not 'one of the least racist societies on Earth'.

It's actually quite racist, it's just that racism is so pervasive in societies world wide and people either don't want to acknowledge it or they aren't exposed to it. Having said that, the US is just as bad, so it goes the other way; many other countries are just as bad if not worse, i.e. US.

Fact of the matter is, Collingwood may or may not have a disproportionate number of people who are outwardly racist. One could make the connection that, since we have the most number of members in the AFL we're more likely to have racist members/supporters. Makes sense, the greater the population, if they were just as likely to be racist as the rest of the population, it makes sense.

You could then argue that the standard Collingwood supporter (what the demographic is) is either more or less likely to be racist. I think football supporters in general may be more racist, the problem is you can't exactly have a poll where people tick

[_] I am racist
[_] I am not racist

- people don't identify publicly like that, or rarely anyway.

Conclusion for me is, you're going to find racist people everywhere in life and no doubt that will include some idiots at the football. Unfortunately they're going to follow every club and that includes Collingwood.

Media are arseholes, we get profiles, we move on. Only thing we can do is try to deal with it (and handle the media whilst doing so).

 

[StillWaiting5689]

Most people who make racist comments are just idiots, not racists.

I would agree with this, I think they generally say shit without thinking, they see a black player they don't like and they call him a black dog, they see a white player they don't like and they call him a dog. Not a racist person but a stupid person who make racist comments.

FWIW I have never heard any racist remarks during my time of going to the footy but I don't doubt it is there but it wouldn't be something unique Collingwood which is how it is often portrayed.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

I've only ever heard a racist comment once.

At an Essendon game on ANZAC Day. Some redneck (literally) Bombers supporters were being their usual annoying selves in the AFL Members section.

A Collingwood supporter, who would have been either Greek or Italian, turned around and asked him to stop spitting on him while he screamed. Bombers supporter acknowledged the fact that he'd been asked, but didn't actually say or do anything.

Later on, AGAIN, the Collingwood supoprter had to turn around and ask him to watch with the spitting.

After the 3rd time he was asked, a mate of the redneck who was spitting jumped up and yelled "Why don't you go drive a taxi dago!".

uh oh.

Something like 8 MASSIVE units just rose from their seats and turned around (we're also Greek, but aren't easily offended, I actually chuckled), and my group (there were 5 of us) had to literally start holding people back and get between to avoid the blood bath that would have taken place.

Security eventually showed up and ejected the Essendon supporters.

That's the only racism I've heard in around 25 years of watching footy. That was only a few years ago.

 

[Ant85]

While it's all well and good to have idealised policies and say let everyone in the poor dears. The reality is being able to control your borders and whom gets to enter your country is a bloody good thing.

Unfortunately countries with uncontrolled borders turn to shit. It's just a good thing we're an island or we might actually understand Israel, Yemen etc.

There's a difference between being able to control your borders, and stirring up xenophobia and playing on the fear factor in marginal seats to score votes.

Reality is our border control is not an issue. Our navy and patrol boats are aware of every vessel that enters Australian waters.

Second, the number of asylum seekers arriving illegally is minute, particularly compared to the waves trying to get into Europe from Africa, or the US from Mexico.

Yet, our politicians have somehow blown this into a major electoral issue, and flaming xenophobia in the outer suburban marginal seats.

I don't want to denigrate this discussion into an asylum seeker debate, but the rise in racist taunts at the footy should be of no surprise considering the political climate in the country that's encouraging such behaviour.

And I'm glad Eddie was brave enough to point that out, because not many commentators have.

 

[jonbe54]

There's a difference between being able to control your borders, and stirring up xenophobia and playing on the fear factor in marginal seats to score votes.

Reality is our border control is not an issue. Our navy and patrol boats are aware of every vessel that enters Australian waters.

Second, the number of asylum seekers arriving illegally is minute, particularly compared to the waves trying to get into Africa, or the US from Mexico.

Yet, our politicians have somehow blown this into a major electoral issue, and flaming xenophobia in the outer suburban marginal seats.

I don't want to denigrate this discussion into an asylum seeker debate, but the rise in racist taunts at the footy should be of no surprise considering the political climate in the country that's encouraging such behaviour.

And I'm glad Eddie was brave enough to point that out, because not many commentators have.

Ant what amazes me is that the sheep who vote for 'border control' or 'stop illegal immigration' or even worse 'stop the boats' have some belief that they can be stopped or even substantially reduced.

Africa has been in uproar for DECADES, south east Asian countries continue to exploit their peasants, South America continues to be a cesspit of oppression and violence and we strut and posture about our borders??

These people have had everything taken from the but most particularly they have had HOPE for them and their children crushed - of course they are not going to pay any attention to our strutting and posturing

When the country's leaders seek to push responsibility for the downtrodden aside for national posturing then you have to expect the rednecks to feel braver

 

[PieNSauce]

I can't help having my say on this. I certainly don't believe that racism is a Collingwood issue per se even though I'd be more than happy for Collingwood as a club to come down very hard on any racist behaviour amongst our membership and thus make a statement. The reality is that racism is fairly deeply ingrained in the Australian psyche albeit that it is improving over time. I have heard racist comments from the supporters of most clubs and I honestly believe that the reason we get targetted is more of a ratings/sales related issue.

Over my lifetime Australians have improved their attitudes to ethnicity substantially but I think the issue becomes more difficult by virtue of too low a priority being placed on integration skills and facilities for migrants. To me this breeds mistrust because of the enclaves set up around ethnic minorities who then tend to band together in an "us versus them" type of mentality. This has been going on since the 1960's and it just seems to me that successive governments have learned nothing. When I was a kid there was terrible racism practiced against Italians and Greeks and it took them as a whole decades to wear that down. IMO had the government done more to facilitate integration the problem would have been far less prevalent in the first place.

That said, I don't think you can relate our border protection policies to racism. They are not even remotely related. The boat people issue is about a few core issues in particular, fair and equal access for all potential immigrants, fair treatment of genuine assylum seekers and stamping out people smuggling. The suggestion that our policies are in any way race related is way off the mark.

 

[Helfarch]

I don't really want to get into this discussion as it's probably not going to be the best on these forums and it's slightly depressing lol. But having said that, whilst I think Australia is an amazing country, it's certainly not 'one of the least racist societies on Earth'.

Yet another one, get out in the real world.

If Australia as a whole is so racist it must be easy to point out a country that has no racism in comparison.

I don't want to denigrate this discussion into an asylum seeker debate, but the rise in racist taunts at the footy should be of no surprise considering the political climate in the country that's encouraging such behaviour.

Is there a rise? Has it ever gone up/down? It would be hard to know unless you went to every single game and managed to sit in every section of the ground at the same time. The few reports indicate it really isn't a major issue and merely a topical bit of fluff to score a few more clicks. For example, Majak Daw had NEVER heard anything like the abuse he copped from one old drunk guy at a VFL match. Now does this mean that Australia is racist or does it say that in everyday life a hard working family of a minority background in this country hadn't experienced racism in years of living in Australia. Does this show racism is the norm?

Who the hell is trying to get IN to africa?

Ant what amazes me is that the sheep who vote for 'border control' or 'stop illegal immigration' or even worse 'stop the boats' have some belief that they can be stopped or even substantially reduced.

Africa has been in uproar for DECADES, south east Asian countries continue to exploit their peasants, South America continues to be a cesspit of oppression and violence and we strut and posture about our borders??

These people have had everything taken from the but most particularly they have had HOPE for them and their children crushed - of course they are not going to pay any attention to our strutting and posturing

When the country's leaders seek to push responsibility for the downtrodden aside for national posturing then you have to expect the rednecks to feel braver

Australia has exactly 0 responsibility for the plight of any of the people you mentioned. You import people you import thier problems. No amount of fuzzy feelings changes that. Ask Denmark, Netherlands, France, Yemen, USA, Gibraltar, Germany etc etc.

The reason we see little issue with racial / cultural enclaves is that we simply have a low per capita intake which has mostly allowed pretty good integration after a couple of decades.

We can't even get rid of people that are not refugees because their own countries won't take them back.

I vote in the hope of a slightly less incompetent govt.

 

[jonbe54]

I can't help having my say on this. I certainly don't believe that racism is a Collingwood issue per se even though I'd be more than happy for Collingwood as a club to come down very hard on any racist behaviour amongst our membership and thus make a statement. The reality is that racism is fairly deeply ingrained in the Australian psyche albeit that it is improving over time. I have heard racist comments from the supporters of most clubs and I honestly believe that the reason we get targetted is more of a ratings/sales related issue.

Over my lifetime Australians have improved their attitudes to ethnicity substantially but I think the issue becomes more difficult by virtue of too low a priority being placed on integration skills and facilities for migrants. To me this breeds mistrust because of the enclaves set up around ethnic minorities who then tend to band together in an "us versus them" type of mentality. This has been going on since the 1960's and it just seems to me that successive governments have learned nothing. When I was a kid there was terrible racism practiced against Italians and Greeks and it took them as a whole decades to wear that down. IMO had the government done more to facilitate integration the problem would have been far less prevalent in the first place.

That said, I don't think you can relate our border protection policies to racism. They are not even remotely related. The boat people issue is about a few core issues in particular, fair and equal access for all potential immigrants, fair treatment of genuine assylum seekers and stamping out people smuggling. The suggestion that our policies are in any way race related is way off the mark.

Pie I have no problem with the specifics you use and can add my own views as a boy growing up in the shadows of the then recently lifted 'White Australia' policy and the attrocious practices used against Aboringinal communities in a blindly arrogant attempt to 'integrate' them into the white picket fence mentality.

I think the real point about the refugee problem in relation to racism is that it helps set the national climate for intolerance and Nationalistic jingoistic attitudes that are a hot breeding ground for intolerance of all kinds, not the least of which is racism.

When such a climate exists bigots and rednecks of all varieties get brave.

 

[PieNSauce]

Pie I have no problem with the specifics you use and can add my own views as a boy growing up in the shadows of the then recently lifted 'White Australia' policy and the attrocious practices used against Aboringinal communities in a blindly arrogant attempt to 'integrate' them into the white picket fence mentality.

I think the real point about the refugee problem in relation to racism is that it helps set the national climate for intolerance and Nationalistic jingoistic attitudes that are a hot breeding ground for intolerance of all kinds, not the least of which is racism.

When such a climate exists bigots and rednecks of all varieties get brave.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree but that once again comes down to government policy. Surely such attitudes are the result of poor public relations and education about the policy. I don't believe that educated Australians who understand the policy would be incited to racism as a result of what is clearly not a race based policy.

 

[jonbe54]

I wouldn't necessarily disagree but that once again comes down to government policy. Surely such attitudes are the result of poor public relations and education about the policy. I don't believe that educated Australians who understand the policy would be incited to racism as a result of what is clearly not a race based policy.

True enough Pie but it is a matter of political courage. Since the days of Howard and his "We will decide who comes to our country" outrage there has been a small but politically very powerful pressure group who have successfully hijacked the national conversation on multiculturalism.

Sad to say they are NOT all uneducated Australians. There are a significant number of educated Australians seeking to take political and economic advantage of the situation.

Howard showed that intolerance can win votes if its carefully dressed and targeted to the correct seats. Look at the carefully manipulated riots in Sydney not long ago, that was sheer provocation and lots of pain suffered by everyone involved - except by the politicians involved in precipitating it who just sat back and smiled.

As I said before in this sort of climate the redneck cowards feel they can get away with anything.

 

[PieNSauce]

True enough Pie but it is a matter of political courage. Since the days of Howard and his "We will decide who comes to our country" outrage there has been a small but politically very powerful pressure group who have successfully hijacked the national conversation on multiculturalism.

Sad to say they are NOT all uneducated Australians. There are a significant number of educated Australians seeking to take political and economic advantage of the situation.

Howard showed that intolerance can win votes if its carefully dressed and targeted to the correct seats. Look at the carefully manipulated riots in Sydney not long ago, that was sheer provocation and lots of pain suffered by everyone involved - except by the politicians involved in precipitating it who just sat back and smiled.

As I said before in this sort of climate the redneck cowards feel they can get away with anything.

Yep. That's quite true. There is very definitely a redneck minority in this country and you only have to look at some of the parliamentart candidates who actually get votes to know that. Very definitely a matter of political courage!

 

[Helfarch]

I always find it amusing when people bleating and blubbing about racism start using terms like 'redneck'.

According to the UN, you're racists.