Review Collingwood Dodgy Draft Picks

[kevind]

If you're talking about missed opportunities - as well as just crap drafting, I once read that we had some sort of play on Bernie Quinlan in the '70's. Not sure how close we were to getting him across but I think we didn't push hard enough. Quinlan was a superstar tall forward who could turn games. Considering that there was a bees phallus in the GF in '77 and '79 you could argue that this non-trade cost us two flags including one against the filth that would have made my life so much less painful.

True story. Quinlan wanted to play for Collingwood and Tom Hafey was led to believe, by club officials, that the deal was done and dusted. Ditto Quinlan.

As CHF was a major weakness in those years, Quinlan would have been a godsend. Not only could he play, but he was universally loved wherever he went. Even opposition supporters loved Bernie.

His nickname of 'superboot' was no exaggeration either.

It was the type of total stuff up that we specialised in for many,many years.

Another that comes to mind was the retaliation against Melbourne for recruiting Peter Moore. We pinched their ruckman by the name of Glenn McLean by offerring more dollars than he had ever seen in his entire life. McLean was the sort of ruckman that made Guy Richards look like Simon Madden.

The rumour was that a few Melbourne officials almost swallowed their tongues from laughing so hard.

With regards to the draft. We were actually one of the best clubs in the first 5 or 6 years of the draft. In the 1990's we appointed a guy by the name of Gerard Sholly as recruiting manager and that's when the drafting recruiting disaters began piling up. Judkins improved things when appointed and Hine, aside from a few poor choices, has done a very good job so far.

When Eddie came to power, it was the first thing that we needed fixing. It took him a while to get it right, but he finally did. Hine would possibly be the second best in the AFL behind Stephen Wells of Geelong.

 

[Beary17]

Similar thing to Paul Roos in the early 90's isn't it? I heard him interviewed about it once, he was overseas and came back thinking he was a Collingwood player, somehow the forms weren't signed off in time and he never knew how.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

yep - pick 23...Ryan Cook
just after Cole's trade went through I think essendon traded a player (worse than Cole) for pick 19...

Essendon paid pick 23 for Cole and then received pick 19 for Ted Richards.

They then used pick 19 in the draft on Courtney Dempsey. In hindsight they could have kept Richards (who turned out to be be very good player) and still got Demspey with pick 23.

I dont count Richie Cole as a significant drafting failure because we still managed to get good value for him at the trade table. And we bent Esendon over into the bargain!!!

The fact Cook turned out to be a dud is irrelevant...in fact its double counting.

 

[Hva sher a]

A couple more:
Chad Rintoul
Chad Morrison
Blake Caracella
Anthony Corrie

ok some of these were traded for picks but it was still a waste of a pick for us

 

[Hva sher a]

True story. Quinlan wanted to play for Collingwood and Tom Hafey was led to believe, by club officials, that the deal was done and dusted. Ditto Quinlan.

As CHF was a major weakness in those years, Quinlan would have been a godsend. Not only could he play, but he was universally loved wherever he went. Even opposition supporters loved Bernie.

His nickname of 'superboot' was no exaggeration either.

It was the type of total stuff up that we specialised in for many,many years.

Another that comes to mind was the retaliation against Melbourne for recruiting Peter Moore. We pinched their ruckman by the name of Glenn McLean by offerring more dollars than he had ever seen in his entire life. McLean was the sort of ruckman that made Guy Richards look like Simon Madden.

The rumour was that a few Melbourne officials almost swallowed their tongues from laughing so hard.

With regards to the draft. We were actually one of the best clubs in the first 5 or 6 years of the draft. In the 1990's we appointed a guy by the name of Gerard Sholly as recruiting manager and that's when the drafting recruiting disaters began piling up. Judkins improved things when appointed and Hine, aside from a few poor choices, has done a very good job so far.

When Eddie came to power, it was the first thing that we needed fixing. It took him a while to get it right, but he finally did. Hine would possibly be the second best in the AFL behind Stephen Wells of Geelong.

The Bernie stuff up reminds me of how we missed out on Lockett. Not sure of the full detail so if anyone wants to remind us...

 

[Ed D]

A couple more:
Chad Rintoul
Chad Morrison
Blake Caracella
Anthony Corrie

ok some of these were traded for picks but it was still a waste of a pick for us

Rintoul and Caracella were both PSD picks and Corrie we got with pick 93 (basically for nothing). Morrison was the only poor player we got but we got him in that weird Bo Nixon + pick 7 trade with Hawthorn so I don't know how costly it was, as we might have got Egan with pick 7 anyway.

 

[sr36]

A couple more:
Chad Rintoul
Chad Morrison
Blake Caracella
Anthony Corrie

ok some of these were traded for picks but it was still a waste of a pick for us

Caracella looked like being a great pick up until he broke his neck.

 

[DermiesLuvChild]

The Bernie stuff up reminds me of how we missed out on Lockett. Not sure of the full detail so if anyone wants to remind us...

From memory, Lockett had agreed in principle terms with CFC & was about to sign (Matthews doing the chasing). The trade between St Kilda & Collingwood wud have included our 1st round pick 9 plus players (we eventually took Wilson with our pick 9 who played 1 game?).
The CFC board (1994?) had to approve the deal (no proper Football dept then), the rumour was the deal was scuppered by one vote (Wayne Richardson voting against the deal), so it never happened. Then the board fired Matthews (next year). It's difficult to get all the facts on 'in house' dealings back then, but this was the only rumour that got out (& later confirmed by Matthews).
Lockett went to Sydney instead & kicked 450 odd goals over the next 5 seasons (missing half of 97 season).

 

[ipswichpies]

From memory, Lockett had agreed in principle terms with CFC & was about to sign (Matthews doing the chasing). The trade between St Kilda & Collingwood wud have included our 1st round pick 9 plus players (we eventually took Wilson with our pick 9 who played 1 game?).
The CFC board (1994?) had to approve the deal (no proper Football dept then), the rumour was the deal was scuppered by one vote (Wayne Richardson voting against the deal), so it never happened. Then the board fired Matthews (next year). It's difficult to get all the facts on 'in house' dealings back then, but this was the only rumour that got out (& later confirmed by Matthews).
Lockett went to Sydney instead & kicked 450 odd goals over the next 5 seasons (missing half of 97 season).

It is funny you should be talking about Lockett because the club were very keen to get at the end his 1st season which if I recalled was 83 and he was 18 and just starting out but 1 look told you all you needed to know.

 

[Kirby]

The CFC board (1994?) had to approve the deal (no proper Football dept then), the rumour was the deal was scuppered by one vote (Wayne Richardson voting against the deal), so it never happened. Then the board fired Matthews (next year). It's difficult to get all the facts on 'in house' dealings back then, but this was the only rumour that got out (& later confirmed by Matthews).

This part of the rumour is total bullshit and was made up by people looking for someone to blame. It gained legs because Wayne's son , Mark, was a tall forward on our list at the time, but the fact of the matter is that this had nothing to do with the decision.

I might point out that the CFC board had a least 7 people on it so you need at least 4 votes to have a majority. Common sense would tell you that there were at least 4 votes against taking Lockett.

The truth of the matter is that the deal was not taken for the following 2 reasons:

1. Lockett was seen as being poison amongst the playing group. He was head strong, belligerent and seen as a non team player who would be detrimental to what the club thought was a very talented team at that time.
2. During the previous season we had unearthed another very promising big monster forward in Saverio Rocca who had cost us nothing. There was a feeling that the sky was the limit with him and we got him for nothing. In other words, we already thought we had another Lockett (or nearly as good at least).

The above is the truth about what actually happened.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Caracella looked like being a great pick up until he broke his neck.

He could easily have been a premiership player in 2007, he would have been very handy in that prelim and his experience may have been enough to get us over the line.

 

[lgarth80]

He could easily have been a premiership player in 2007, he would have been very handy in that prelim and his experience may have been enough to get us over the line.

Absolutely. Caracella was a huge loss for 2006 onwards. I even think our 2006 side wasn't that far away; maybe I'm dreaming. Essendon loss late in the year cost us top 4. Another option in the forward line might have been handy, as would have the double chance.

That loss to Essendon stopped the Dons winning the wooden spoon, and it still burns. Courtney Johns kicked 3, that says it all.

 

[The Average Tourist]

Has anyone forgotten Andrew Williams MM loved him.

 

[Optimax]

Has anyone forgotten Andrew Williams MM loved him.

Wasn't actually that bad until the round 11 match where he broke two ribs against hawthorn.

Came back very timid and even more outside, minus the strong marking he displayed early that season and made him an asset on the wing.

 

[ipswichpies]

This part of the rumour is total bullshit and was made up by people looking for someone to blame. It gained legs because Wayne's son , Mark, was a tall forward on our list at the time, but the fact of the matter is that this had nothing to do with the decision.

I might point out that the CFC board had a least 7 people on it so you need at least 4 votes to have a majority. Common sense would tell you that there were at least 4 votes against taking Lockett.

The truth of the matter is that the deal was not taken for the following 2 reasons:

1. Lockett was seen as being poison amongst the playing group. He was head strong, belligerent and seen as a non team player who would be detrimental to what the club thought was a very talented team at that time.
2. During the previous season we had unearthed another very promising big monster forward in Saverio Rocca who had cost us nothing. There was a feeling that the sky was the limit with him and we got him for nothing. In other words, we already thought we had another Lockett (or nearly as good at least).

The above is the truth about what actually happened.

Mate Saverio could have every bit as good as plugger if he had had some mongrel in him the sky certainly should have been the limit,the club certainly tried to get Lockett at the end of his first season.

Big Sav kicked 750+ in his career of 250 games and he should of kicked a 1000+ easily there were so many times when he just went MIA during a season that you just felt if his temperament were a little like Lockett he would be unstoppable and when he was younger he was very durable and hardly ever injured but he use to go missing all the time the only other player who annoyed me as much was fabulous Phil he was another who should have been a world beater.

 

[DermiesLuvChild]

This part of the rumour is total bullshit and was made up by people looking for someone to blame. It gained legs because Wayne's son , Mark, was a tall forward on our list at the time, but the fact of the matter is that this had nothing to do with the decision.

I might point out that the CFC board had a least 7 people on it so you need at least 4 votes to have a majority. Common sense would tell you that there were at least 4 votes against taking Lockett.

The truth of the matter is that the deal was not taken for the following 2 reasons:

1. Lockett was seen as being poison amongst the playing group. He was head strong, belligerent and seen as a non team player who would be detrimental to what the club thought was a very talented team at that time.
2. During the previous season we had unearthed another very promising big monster forward in Saverio Rocca who had cost us nothing. There was a feeling that the sky was the limit with him and we got him for nothing. In other words, we already thought we had another Lockett (or nearly as good at least).

The above is the truth about what actually happened.

I am not sure if your rumour is any nearer to the truth than my rumour??
Bottom line - Matthews pursued Lockett - board split - no to Lockett - he goes on to kick 100 goals most years (450 goals in 4.5 seasons) with Sydney - Collingwood decline contiues, ending with a wooden spoon - Sydney play finals footy.
nb can you name the 7 board members & what their voting position was with regard to Lockett?

 

[Karate Feel]

Here's a blast from the past.One from Tony Shaw's legacy draft pick #39 Luke Godden taken in the 1995 draft.This guy had no left or right foot.Probably the worst skilled player i have ever seen but then again Tony Shaw ran the club into the ground if we didn't get Malthouse(1999) and Eddy in 1998, who knows were the club would be.I do not want to ever go back to those days of watching and hearing opposition crowds laughing at our players.What a dark time.Give Hine a 10 year contract i say.

 

[Markfs]

Bottom line - Matthews pursued Lockett - board split - no to Lockett - he goes on to kick 100 goals most years (450 goals in 4.5 seasons) with Sydney - Collingwood decline contiues, ending with a wooden spoon - Sydney play finals footy.

Bottom line - Lockett could easily have played with a wooden spoon winning Pies outfit?

Have we done the Bernie Quinlan one yet? We need to get a list of megastars who were sounded out in the back room of a pub..and then we can work out how many premierships we could have won on fantasy island.

 

[TradeDraft]

Here's a blast from the past.One from Tony Shaw's legacy draft pick #39 Luke Godden taken in the 1995 draft.This guy had no left or right foot.Probably the worst skilled player i have ever seen but then again Tony Shaw ran the club into the ground if we didn't get Malthouse(1999) and Eddy in 1998, who knows were the club would be.I do not want to ever go back to those days of watching and hearing opposition crowds laughing at our players.What a dark time.Give Hine a 10 year contract i say.

Godden won the Larke Medal that Year

 

[wednesdaywarrior]

I used to think that back in those days before the Club became more professional, when it was still being run essentially by ex-footballers at nearly every level - we used to draft too much of the same type of player - the sort of Collingwood blue collar mongrel. They would usually have a crack but weren't polished or quick enough to win you the flag. These days we seem to take a much more scientific and balanced approach to the whole thing. My biggest nightmare is the cheats luring Hine with a bucket of cash one day a'la Greg Swan. Let's hope our man never turns to the dark side. At this point in time I enjoy the ND and PSD almost as much as the season itself.

 

[Kirby]

I am not sure if your rumour is any nearer to the truth than my rumour??
Bottom line - Matthews pursued Lockett - board split - no to Lockett - he goes on to kick 100 goals most years (450 goals in 4.5 seasons) with Sydney - Collingwood decline contiues, ending with a wooden spoon - Sydney play finals footy.
nb can you name the 7 board members & what their voting position was with regard to Lockett?

Mate you're a decent poster here and I wasn't having a go at you so don't think I was attacking you.

I know what happened and I knew it at the time and I know because I know a couple of board members who were there at that time through family. That's all I'm saying and there is no pissing competition.

 

[DermiesLuvChild]

Mate you're a decent poster here and I wasn't having a go at you so don't think I was attacking you.

I know what happened and I knew it at the time and I know because I know a couple of board members who were there at that time through family. That's all I'm saying and there is no pissing competition.

No worries. I was just going on what I'd heard/read.
Anyway, our recruiting is now A1 with more hits than misses (especially with our early picks).

 

[kevind]

This part of the rumour is total bullshit and was made up by people looking for someone to blame. It gained legs because Wayne's son , Mark, was a tall forward on our list at the time, but the fact of the matter is that this had nothing to do with the decision.

I might point out that the CFC board had a least 7 people on it so you need at least 4 votes to have a majority. Common sense would tell you that there were at least 4 votes against taking Lockett.

The truth of the matter is that the deal was not taken for the following 2 reasons:

1. Lockett was seen as being poison amongst the playing group. He was head strong, belligerent and seen as a non team player who would be detrimental to what the club thought was a very talented team at that time.
2. During the previous season we had unearthed another very promising big monster forward in Saverio Rocca who had cost us nothing. There was a feeling that the sky was the limit with him and we got him for nothing. In other words, we already thought we had another Lockett (or nearly as good at least).

The above is the truth about what actually happened.

What part of the rumour are you saying is false?

As you say, there were 4 votes saying no to Lockett. I have heard from several different sources that Wayne Richardson voted 'no'. People obviously have put spin on the fact the Richardson vote was the veto vote, but your points still don't refute the previous poster's rumour.

The reasons you gave for not recruiting him were basically the spin of the majority of 4 voters. There was some foundation to their reasons, but they basically overrated Sav Rocca enormously. Sav was not a natural footballer like Lockett.

As for the playing group considering him poison, I doubt they were even consulted. Lockett came with a bit of baggage that is true but I often wonder if recruiting decisions like this have cost us a few premierships over the years. I also wonder if clubs like Carlton would have just got the deal done and moved on.

The other story I remember, the greatest stuff up of all , was the time St Kilda requested a meeting with Collingwood around 1993/94 at then President Allan Macallister's East Boundary hotel in McKinnon. The Saints board members basically turned up and explained they were desperate for cash as they were deep in debt and would Collingwood be interestred in Lockett and Winmar for several hundred thousand dollars and some draft picks.

According to the story, Collingwood dithered and dithered and dithered until St Kilda just assumed that they were not interested.

 

[kevind]

Here's a blast from the past.One from Tony Shaw's legacy draft pick #39 Luke Godden taken in the 1995 draft.This guy had no left or right foot.Probably the worst skilled player i have ever seen but then again Tony Shaw ran the club into the ground if we didn't get Malthouse(1999) and Eddy in 1998, who knows were the club would be.I do not want to ever go back to those days of watching and hearing opposition crowds laughing at our players.What a dark time.Give Hine a 10 year contract i say.

It's getting pretty tiresome these attacks on Tony Shaw on this board. He is a legend of the club and a Premiership winning captain. He bled for the club like few others have done. He regularly would tag super players like Greg Williams, have his nose broken into the deal, but never give up the ghost.

He is in the media now and generally gives an honest appraisal of how he sees things. He is not employed to write flowery articles about Collingwood and neither should he.

As for you saying it was Tony who ran the club into the ground, that is absolute rubbish. Macallister as President presided over a whole club that was content to live off one premiership in 1990 for the next 20 years.

I doubt Tony had anything to do with the recruiting of any players let alone Luke Godden. Coaches rarely do, even these days. Gerard Sholly was head of recruiting for all those horror years of the 1990's. The fact that Macallister left him in the job for so long led to dreadful draft picks like Luke Godden.

 

[MarkT2]

Have we done the Bernie Quinlan one yet? We need to get a list of megastars who were sounded out in the back room of a pub..and then we can work out how many premierships we could have won on fantasy island.

Bit more than being sounded out that one. According to Hafey he had a deal that the board then rejected. We've had some ego driven and inept decision making over the years that have cost us dearly. Currently no less ego driven but much less inept.