Collingwood Rucks

[pongo_3931]

Why don't they play Wood and get some games into him ??

Sorry Andy I'm not sure if your question has been answered. As you can tell threads on our rucks passionately hit home for pies.

Cameron produced his best form at the start of the season and was looking great. About 4 or so games in he started to fade away and the switch was made. That's about all the facts that exist. From here on in it's a bit of speculation and hearsay.


So this is my two bob.

We've got a kid who until he reached the pies had played only played 16 games across three years. He needs to be thought of as a first year player given this. As a comparison Ratten suggested Kruzer may be due for a rest after a similar form slump.

So whats stopping Camo? I'd say he's still adjusting to the club and what is expected of him. Big culture shift from Brisbane to here. He will also be dealing with living in a new state. I think he can and will overcome these things, the hardest being living up to expectations.

If players like Medhurst took years to groom I would expect a similar process with Cameron. We have a knack of cutting diamonds from the rough. He will be under our wing and you will see more from him in future.

 

[sirlothie]

Dick head

Blow me, have a look at the history assclown, it's a fact, or do you want another Egan with pick 7, Tambling with pick 2, Sampi, Richard Cole, Oakley-Nicholls, Courtenay Dempsey, the list goes on and on and if you had any insight at all you would realise that successful first round Aboriginal draft picks are very, very rare, hence not worth a punt until later.

The good ones like Goodes, McLeod, O'Loughlin, Davis all came LATE in the draft. So find a clue before you call someone a dick head ok moron.

No wait, you're right, Chris Egan was a great selection.

We are so lucky we drafted Chris Egan and didn't end up with the spuds behind him like Van Berlo, Rosa, Prismall, LeCras, M. Morton, Sherman, Pratt and Bate.

How lucky are we!!!

 

[Chase the Ace]

Blow me, have a look at the history assclown, it's a fact, or do you want another Egan with pick 7, Tambling with pick 2, Sampi, Richard Cole, Oakley-Nicholls, Courtenay Dempsey, the list goes on and on and if you had any insight at all you would realise that successful first round Aboriginal draft picks are very, very rare, hence not worth a punt until later.

The good ones like Goodes, McLeod, O'Loughlin, Davis all came LATE in the draft. So find a clue before you call someone a dick head ok moron.

No wait, you're right, Chris Egan was a great selection.

We are so lucky we drafted Chris Egan and didn't end up with the spuds behind him like Van Berlo, Rosa, Prismall, LeCras, M. Morton, Sherman, Pratt and Bate.

How lucky are we!!!

Now you are an even bigger Dick head and a bigot.
Was you that did the spitting as well, it sounds like you

 

[sirlothie]

Now you are an even bigger Dick head and a bigot.
Was you that did the spitting as well, it sounds like you

Another "politically correct" idiot with no real clue, spare me ok.

Merely pointed out a trend that an unperceptive drone like you would never appreciate, so why try to convince you. *******, go hug a tree.

 

[Lestat]

Another "politically correct" idiot with no real clue, spare me ok.

Merely pointed out a trend that an unperceptive drone like you would never appreciate, so why try to convince you. *******, go hug a tree.

Yeah, Daniel Kerr also was also a flimsy shocking first round picks...eh.

Oh, and we've had plenty of failed first round picks who were...surprise surprise, white anglo saxons. Actually, I'm pretty certain that far more white anglo saxon first round picks have been disapointments then 1st round aboriginal picks.

Kind of blows your bigoted racist views out of the water.

 

[sirlothie]

It isn't racist, it's just being realistic that an Aboriginal player is less likely to acclimatise to professional football and have the necessary commitment because they are taken out of a different world to what we live in basically.

It's the same as drafting an Irishman with your first round pick except an Aboriginal has been playing longer, I love Aboriginal footballers and have nothing against them as a people but nevertheless only a fool does not study the trends of the past.

Clearly you're a fool.

It's not your fault, it's genetics but sit down ok. There, there.

 

[Lestat]

It isn't racist, it's just being realistic that an Aboriginal player is less likely to acclimatise to professional football and have the necessary commitment because they are taken out of a different world to what we live in basically.

It's the same as drafting an Irishman with your first round pick except an Aboriginal has been playing longer, I love Aboriginal footballers and have nothing against them as a people but nevertheless only a fool does not study the trends of the past.

Clearly you're a fool.

It's not your fault, it's genetics but sit down ok. There, there.

Yes it is racist...as you have made it about race by implying that because a player is aboriginal, he is less likely to 'acclimatise to proffesional football.'.

How a player acclimatises as nothing to do with his race, and everything to do with his personality, and individual cirmustances.

An anglo saxon lad from a small town in Northern Territory would have just as much trouble with settling down in Melbourne as an Aboriginal.

His race is irrelevant.

 

[sirlothie]

Yeah, Andrew McLeoud and Daniel Kerr also were two flimsy shocking first round picks...eh.

Kind of blows your bigoted racist views out of the water.

McLeod was on Fremantle's inaugural list as a freebie, he didn't debut until 1995 he was already a premiership player in the SANFL then he didn't work out at Freo and was traded to Adelaide for Chris Groom.

He was never drafted you peanut.

Daniel Kerr was drafted in Round 2.

Nice try but owned, sorry.

 

[sirlothie]

Yes it is racist...as you have made it about race by implying that because a player is aboriginal, he is less likely to 'acclimatise to proffesional football.'.

How a player acclimatises as nothing to do with his race, and everything to do with his personality, and individual cirmustances.

An anglo saxon lad from a small town in Northern Territory would have just as much trouble with settling down in Melbourne as an Aboriginal.

His race is irrelevant.

Bullshit, you are asking a native Australian to assimilate to the white man's way when you draft him to play AFL football. I don't blame them if they choose not to.

Seems not only emus have their head in the sand.

 

[sirlothie]

All I have said is the associated added pressures an Aboriginal draftee faces means they are not worth risking a potentially generation changing first round draft pick on him. By all means draft them in the later rounds as when they pan out they are incredible footballers.

But with your first round pick, you must be sure he will be a star without doubt and this is where we went wrong, as have a lot of other clubs.

Carry on being naive.

 

[Dave The Man]

Jeez This has gone off topic

 

[sirlothie]

Yeah well a mere statement that history shows Aboriginal players are risky first round draft selections is too much bait for the do-gooder's it seems.

Shame.

 

[Dave The Man]

Yeah well a mere statement that history shows Aboriginal players are risky first round draft selections is too much bait for the do-gooder's it seems.

Shame.

Make a New Thread if you want to talk about this then

 

[Chase the Ace]

Mods, do we need to report this thread before you will fix it?

Get rid of this racist crap

 

[sirlothie]

Mods, do we need to report this thread before you will fix it?

Get rid of this racist crap

You made it more about race than I did so report yourself.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Players should be picked on form. On that basis, Bryan is currently the best ruck we have on our list. Its arguable whether Wood is in any better form than Fraser.

Unfortunately its hard to show form in a brand new VFL team that had about five minutes planning over the summer. This new VFL standalone team is an unmitigated disaster and has done the opposite of developing players - it has actually sent them backwards. All the more credit to Ben Reid who is the only player on our VFL list who has shown any form at all. With all the money we are supposed to have, a little more planning at VFL level would have been handy.

 

[Art Corvelay]

Fraser is a bloody frustrating player sometimes. I wouldn't be against dropping him for a week and getting both Wood and Bryan in the side to play. None of our rucks should feel safe in their spot in the team, and you'd hope the competition to get a spot would make them more competitive against the opposition.

It isn't racist, it's just being realistic that an Aboriginal player is less likely to acclimatise to professional football and have the necessary commitment because they are taken out of a different world to what we live in basically.

This might come as some surprise but some Aboriginals actually live in the suburbs and go to suburban schools and play suburban football with other suburban kids. They don't all sleep by the campfire out the back of NT

I'm sure if you worked out the % of failed white players and failed Aboriginal players there would be a similar number. PLENTY of white kids get picked in the first round and amount to nothing as well.

So unless you have done the statistics, you have no 'facts' at all.

 

[the_fresh]

The sad thing about Fraser is he'll play this week, be best on and save himself for another 4 weeks of poor football.

 

[the_fresh]

Players should be picked on form. On that basis, Bryan is currently the best ruck we have on our list. Its arguable whether Wood is in any better form than Fraser.

Unfortunately its hard to show form in a brand new VFL team that had about five minutes planning over the summer. This new VFL standalone team is an unmitigated disaster and has done the opposite of developing players - it has actually sent them backwards. All the more credit to Ben Reid who is the only player on our VFL list who has shown any form at all. With all the money we are supposed to have, a little more planning at VFL level would have been handy.

Thats a little wrong.
The club have come out a number of times this year and late last year stating that the VFL will be used to teach the younger players.
They said that they could get no wins for the year, but if they find that players can play a number of new roles because of that side it'll help the AFL side.

I'm with them, we've never had a good seconds side, nor do we need one.
Its there to teach players how to play and get them ready for the AFL.

 

[RRRooocccaaa]

That Chris Bryan interview a couple of weeks back was telling. He wasn't picked, he was frustrated so he went back to the twos and slogged his guts out to get picked again.

His attitude has continued into the seniors, and it's why he's unlikely to get demoted for a while. There's elements of his game that still need polishing, but since his head is in the right place he's also likely to be finessing these in the weeks coming.

Clangers aside, he's also had some searing passes, strong contested defensive marks and thrown his weight around. And some big 'ole taps.

Some of the kids could learn a lot from Bryno about how the game is played in the head.

 

[MarkT]

Jesus. Another loss and we are debating who is a better option out of the bloke that hasn’t done it over 9 years, the bloke that isn’t ready yet and the bloke that doesn’t have the tools to do it and couldn’t get a game for Carlton last year - but he tries hard.

Is it 2002?

NO it's 2011!

I could just say:

"TOLD YA!" but you'd whinge about me being a smart arse. Bah, what the heck.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Thats a little wrong.
The club have come out a number of times this year and late last year stating that the VFL will be used to teach the younger players.
They said that they could get no wins for the year, but if they find that players can play a number of new roles because of that side it'll help the AFL side.

I'm with them, we've never had a good seconds side, nor do we need one.
Its there to teach players how to play and get them ready for the AFL.

Name a single player from that VFL team that has improved this year. Apart from Wellingham and Reid (and, arguably, Cox), they have all gone backwards. Brown must be counting his blessings that he's spent the whole year in the seniors. I dont expect a VFL premiership, but a 50/50 win loss ratio is the minimum standard that is required so players can actually develop.

Exactly what do you learn from 25 goal losses?

 

[the_fresh]

Name a single player from that VFL team that has improved this year. Apart from Wellingham and Reid (and, arguably, Cox), they have all gone backwards. Brown must be counting his blessings that he's spent the whole year in the seniors. I dont expect a VFL premiership, but a 50/50 win loss ratio is the minimum standard that is required so players can actually develop.

Exactly what do you learn from 25 goal losses?

You said name a single player, you named 2.

And Bryan IMO is a lot better than he was last year.

Have you ever played in a side that has won every week by 25 goals?
I have I got nothing out of it but I did have a good time.
I got a lot more out of being beaten by 25 goals every week, I learned a lot more about myself as a person and footballer & thats what the VFL is about.

 

[Jabso]

What hyperbole. Wood is a good ruckman but needs to show good form. Noone is guaranteed a spot. Bryan has been very good since being in. Fraser is badly unfit and when fit is a good ruckman. I'm sick of debating this so I'll just state my stance.

Getting a good tap ruckman is far less important than strengthening our midfield at the moment. It is a weakness teams can deal with and still be very good teams.

 

[Jabso]

Name a single player from that VFL team that has improved this year. Apart from Wellingham and Reid (and, arguably, Cox), they have all gone backwards. Brown must be counting his blessings that he's spent the whole year in the seniors. I dont expect a VFL premiership, but a 50/50 win loss ratio is the minimum standard that is required so players can actually develop.

Exactly what do you learn from 25 goal losses?

What has winning got to do with development? Development as a team yes, but individually at lower levels it doesn't mean squat. Do you think Buckley went backwards as a player in his early years because he was in a poor team.

Do you think Hawthorn are worried about their youngsters at Box Hill?

Do you worry about drafting a player from a TAC club that's performed poorly?

Besides I think that development of players will result in a better VFL team.