Conundrum with Talls

[MR]

It's looking now that we can't fit all of our tall talent in and it is becoming a large predicament. Realistically, we can only fit in 7-8 talls in our team. 3 tall forwards, 3 tall backs and 1-2 ruckmen.

Currently on our we have 16 talls.
I have listed the ones ones which I think could push for our best 22. I have also put a * next to the ones who are a lock for the best 22.

Rance*
Grimes*
Astbury
Post
Moore
Elton
Browne
Derickx
Maric
Griffiths
Vickery*
Riewoldt*

In our backline, we have 5 possible candidates for CHB. Post, Astbury, Moore, Elton and Griffiths.

In our forwardline, we have 4 possible candidates for 3rd tall. Griffiths, Elton, Derickx, Astbury.

In the ruck, we have 4 possible candidates. Maric, Elton, Derickx, Browne.

And as an option, we could have 4 possible candidates for a utility around the ground. Astbury, Post, Elton and Derickx.

By popularity, CHB would go to Astbury, 3rd tall in the forward line to Griffiths and in the ruck we'll have Maric.

If this was to go into place, we'd be wasting talent in Post, Moore, Elton, Derickx and Browne in the VFL. On top of that, we have Gourdis, McGuane, Graham and Miller playing in Coburg as well.

If we play only Maric in the ruck, we'd have Derickx, Browne, Graham and Elton at the burgers, even if one of them suffered injuries, it would still be too many ruckmen. It is the same with backs and forwards.

This is excellent depth, no doubt about it, but it is also wasted talent.

The question is, how can we fit and develop ours talls in the most efficient way.

 

[tigs2010]

Conundrum or depth?

 

[folester41]

i tink astbury will be our CHB, as far as CHF goes, griffs body is the big factor, maric will be our number 1 ruckmen for a while, other than that, the others im not a big fan of, with the exception of Elton for obvious reasons.

post showed some signs late last season, but has a long way to go.

 

[_RT_]

No conundrum at all.

Riewoldt Rance Vickery & Maric should be best 22. Astbury & Post will fight for CHB. Grimes will play as a 3rd tall defender, while Miller & Griffiths will fight for 3rd tall forward. Elton will likely spend the year developing at Coburg. McGuane Moore Gourdis Derickx Browne & Graham will play at Coburg and will only be called on in case of injury or form of the others is too poor to continue playing them.

 

[City Search]

Grimes showed a lot in a 4-5 week period this year but I think he's best 22 material but far from a lock-in.

 

[tunksy]

depth is good.

graham, mcguane, gourdis and maybe moore will retire/ be delisted by end of next year.

I still see Astbury more as a forward.. I see griff playing similar to franklin/N. Riewoldt honestly, booming kick and runs around a bit from what ive seen of him.

 

[santa claws]

firsts

B/ grimes - rance - ****
HB/**** - post - *****

HF/ **** - riewoldt - ****
F/ **** - griffiths - vickery

R/ maric.

coburg

B/ moore - gourdis - ****
HB/ **** - mcguane - ****

HF/ **** - astbury - ****
F/ **** - miller - derickx

R/ browne
int/ elton
leaves graham in no mans land.
one option would perhaps be moore if fit and healthy on the senior bench.

farming your players out to several teams does have its advantages. ie the eagles dockers in the wafl.

we have a rookie draft to come and its likely we will take a tall or two at least.
lets also remember a heavy toll can be taken on yr talls thruout a yr. most clubs will be without their fair share of talls due to injury.

 

[santa claws]

depth is good.

graham, mcguane, gourdis and maybe moore will retire/ be delisted by end of next year.

I still see Astbury more as a forward.. I see griff playing similar to franklin/N. Riewoldt honestly, booming kick and runs around a bit from what ive seen of him.

is it good depth or just good numbers.

 

[tigs2010]

is it good depth or just good numbers.

At this stage good numbers as of those 16 KPP/Rucks/3rd talls it is likely 4 or 5 will be gone next year. Hopefully pick up another ruck and KPP in the rookie draft. Bolger and someone who can kick as a KPP.

McGuane, Gourdis, Moore, Graham, Miller could all be gone by next year. If we pick up another couple next years draft we should have 13 or 14 with enough talent to make it. (whether or not they do is another matter)

 

[johnno77]

It's going to be an extremely interesting pre-season this year. Competition will be fierce through the NAB Cup with blokes trying to stake a claim on a round 1 berth.

It also should be taken into consideration that what the top 2 teams did this year better than anyone was successfully rotate blokes all season so that very few (or none in Geelongs case) played every game to keep them fit and healthy. The team that did it the best overall won the flag. Sure it wasn't the only factor but I'm sure the Geelong coaching staff would have it right up there.

The recruitment of Elton was a bit of a surprise for me but hopefully it was a case of too good a player to pass up rather than a lack of faith in our current crop of talls. By the sound of him, he will take 3-4 years to develop anyway.

 

[rammbo]

is it good depth or just good numbers.

good numbers of potentials imo.

 

[partycorolla]

It's looking now that we can't fit all of our tall talent in and it is becoming a large predicament. Realistically, we can only fit in 7-8 talls in our team. 3 tall forwards, 3 tall backs and 1-2 ruckmen.

Currently on our we have 16 talls.
I have listed the ones ones which I think could push for our best 22. I have also put a * next to the ones who are a lock for the best 22.

Rance*
Grimes*
Astbury
Post
Moore
Elton
Browne
Derickx
Maric
Griffiths
Vickery*
Riewoldt*

In our backline, we have 5 possible candidates for CHB. Post, Astbury, Moore, Elton and Griffiths.

In our forwardline, we have 4 possible candidates for 3rd tall. Griffiths, Elton, Derickx, Astbury.

In the ruck, we have 4 possible candidates. Maric, Elton, Derickx, Browne.

And as an option, we could have 4 possible candidates for a utility around the ground. Astbury, Post, Elton and Derickx.

By popularity, CHB would go to Astbury, 3rd tall in the forward line to Griffiths and in the ruck we'll have Maric.

If this was to go into place, we'd be wasting talent in Post, Moore, Elton, Derickx and Browne in the VFL. On top of that, we have Gourdis, McGuane, Graham and Miller playing in Coburg as well.

If we play only Maric in the ruck, we'd have Derickx, Browne, Graham and Elton at the burgers, even if one of them suffered injuries, it would still be too many ruckmen. It is the same with backs and forwards.

This is excellent depth, no doubt about it, but it is also wasted talent.

The question is, how can we fit and develop ours talls in the most efficient way.

They can be busting arse to get into the senior team and therefore playing at a great level to get in rather than was has happened recently in that they get games because the the rest of the talls are getting injured or are badly out of form..... McGuane should not ever play seniors again and probably Goo as well. Moore might not.... not his fault.

 

[TOOs_Finest]

If most of these players were to make some sort of mark at AFL level, then today's depth becomes tomorrow's trade bait

 

[santa claws]

good numbers of potentials imo.

thats a good way of putting it.we do have a few who show potential.
still i think we have to many who for me i can put a pencil line thru their names.
when i do that i think we should have more talls on the list

 

[tigs2010]

If most of these players were to make some sort of mark at AFL level, then today's depth becomes tomorrow's trade bait

Yep. Talls worth more than smalls at trade time. Jordan Lisle fetched pick 30 FFS.

 

[tunksy]

is it good depth or just good numbers.

actually its both

need good numbers to start with to sort the wheat from the chaff. until then its good depth til we find that talent.

 

[Crumden]

A bit of depth and some insurance in the likely case that not all come on are both very important. A good sign because in the past we have lacked both.

If you look at the list, Moore isn't really a tall at 190cm, but he has been forced to play as one in the past. Better as a back flanker for mine.

Of the rest, we have 15 of 192cm plus. Four (Brown, Derickx, Maric and Graham) are specialist ruckman so you would expect we would only play one at a time. Most would see McGuane and Miller as a couple we are looking to upgrade on, and Gourdis at this stage looks a bit of a long shot. Leaves 8 to fill the 5 of 6 key positions in the long term (playing 2 or 3 tall forwwards and 2 or 3 tall backs). Means McGuane and Miller will still have a role to play for a while yet.

Reiwoldt has established himself and if Rance and Vickery continue on from last season you would say the same about them. Grimes looked the goods and here's hoping he builds on that. Certainly looks like he will. 2 forwards and 2 backs. That leaves Astbury, Griffiths, Post and Elton. At this stage I reckon we still need one or two of them to develop into very good players. If all 4 of them do, that would be brilliant.

Hopefully during this season players like McGuane and Miller will become dispensible, rather than being the pivots at CHB and CHF.

 

[JR82]

Depth for mine, never hurt anyone! look at our backline circa 2011 (talls at least), all of them Bar Rance had a long term injury at some stage during the year! plus the fact that young players (which make up the vast majority of our list) tire as the season goes on so i expect all of them at some stage will play games, even if rotated around.
what it also does is create competition for spots in the side, instead of having to drop an out of form player for another out of form player as we have had to do in the past, now getting a permanant spot in the 22 will become harder and thus means we are moving forward as a side.

 

[dothebowdenshuffle]

Depth for mine, never hurt anyone! look at our backline circa 2011 (talls at least), all of them Bar Rance had a long term injury at some stage during the year! plus the fact that young players (which make up the vast majority of our list) tire as the season goes on so i expect all of them at some stage will play games, even if rotated around.
what it also does is create competition for spots in the side, instead of having to drop an out of form player for another out of form player as we have had to do in the past, now getting a permanant spot in the 22 will become harder and thus means we are moving forward as a side.

Agree with the thrust of this. Depth has been an imperative of every successful AFL side I can think of...and my memory goes back a fair way. Just look at the quality of players Geelong and Collingwood left out of their premiership teams last 2-3 years. Davis, Wood, O'Bree, Lockyer, Fraser, Presti, Mooney, Byrnes, Mumford, Blake etc. Then there were the injuries to other best 22 players like Vardy. So the fact that our recruiters and list management staff are bringing in talent is a huge tick.

Recruiting the talent alone won't get it done. Developing the talent is the other key and of late we are continually adding resources and refining these methods, but in fairness we were for well over a decade negligent of how important that facet is. Right now, at best we are probably only average so need to keep bolstering this element of our club.

At the end of the day, whatever improvements we make have to be in "real terms" that is over and above the opposition. AFL rules say we have to have 40 players on a list. I think 16 talls (188cm plus) is probably a fair number, maybe 1 or 2 excessive but appropriate for where we are right now.

 

[rammbo]

thats a good way of putting it.we do have a few who show potential.
still i think we have to many who for me i can put a pencil line thru their names.
when i do that i think we should have more talls on the list

Yes agree ive already put a line through gus and browne because can never see them suited to the modern game ,slow, clumsey, lumbering ruckmen r virtually extinct now arnt they.

 

[nineteen eighty]

A bit of depth and some insurance in the likely case that not all come on are both very important. A good sign because in the past we have lacked both.

If you look at the list, Moore isn't really a tall at 190cm, but he has been forced to play as one in the past. Better as a back flanker for mine.

Of the rest, we have 15 of 192cm plus. Four (Brown, Derickx, Maric and Graham) are specialist ruckman so you would expect we would only play one at a time. Most would see McGuane and Miller as a couple we are looking to upgrade on, and Gourdis at this stage looks a bit of a long shot. Leaves 8 to fill the 5 of 6 key positions in the long term (playing 2 or 3 tall forwwards and 2 or 3 tall backs). Means McGuane and Miller will still have a role to play for a while yet.

Reiwoldt has established himself and if Rance and Vickery continue on from last season you would say the same about them. Grimes looked the goods and here's hoping he builds on that. Certainly looks like he will. 2 forwards and 2 backs. That leaves Astbury, Griffiths, Post and Elton. At this stage I reckon we still need one or two of them to develop into very good players. If all 4 of them do, that would be brilliant.

Hopefully during this season players like McGuane and Miller will become dispensible, rather than being the pivots at CHB and CHF.

Very good breakdown.

I thought Moore was taller. Certainly played tall. I had him as our best KPD and someone we missed heaps last year but it may well be that he's not a KPD as you said. Interesting conundrum as he doesn't have the skill to play as a small so his only position IMO is as tall.

 

[Madtiger2006]

How can it be a problem? Moore, Miller and Gourdis may be gone in 12 months. We are looking the goods

 

[Ned_Flanders]

IMO very unlikely we will have Gus, Moore, Goo, and McGuane in the side this time next year.

Derrickx will also need to get out on the paddock and show something too I reckon.

This means, we may be back to Maric, Browne, Vickery as our rucks, and Rance, Grimes, Post, Astbury, Griffiths, Reiwoldt, and Elton as our talls.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Also on ruck numbers, worth noting Balme had the opinion on SEN that you need about 5 rucks in your team (including the development options)

 

[Haggard H]

No conundrum at all.

Riewoldt Rance Vickery & Maric should be best 22. Astbury & Post will fight for CHB. Grimes will play as a 3rd tall defender, while Miller & Griffiths will fight for 3rd tall forward. Elton will likely spend the year developing at Coburg. McGuane Moore Gourdis Derickx Browne & Graham will play at Coburg and will only be called on in case of injury or form of the others is too poor to continue playing them.

In a nutshell! Don't think it could be said better.