Strategy Core business

[CFC2010]

It's lucky that Hawthorn didn't take notice of him when he wanted to ditch Clarkson...

That is a fallacy........straight from Hodges mouth.

 

[JB1975]

That is a fallacy........straight from Hodges mouth.

In 2013, Kennett was very public in making it known that Clarkson should walk or be sacked by the end of that year, and he also made it clear that he'd said the same to Clarkson himself 'years before' that. I'm not sure what the fallacy is.

 

[Scodog10]

View attachment 445131

I’ve experienced 2 hours of footballing bliss in my time as a supporter so I find it irritating to read someone so vehemently opposed to me being envious of the 8 hours my best mates have experienced.

What about my dad. He’s 60 and been fortunate enough to have just 4 ****ing hours in his life. You really think he gives a shit about bullshit excuses over zones? I don’t look at Hawthorn in envy for any reason other than memories of success generations of their supporters will be able to share.

I personally want to share that with my children as I age. Is it too much to ask the club to aim for?..

 

[MagpieJoel]

Are you able to provide proof of such bagging at the time? Otherwise you’re simply casting aspersions. I’m one that was extremely critical of Pert overall, but I do like aiming to overachieve so I’d hope l (and others like me) weren’t critical of the club for aiming high at premierships.

I can't find the original thread.

It's easy to be an expert in hindsight though I guess.

 

[CFC2010]

In 2013, Kennett was very public in making it known that Clarkson should walk or be sacked by the end of that year, and he also made it clear that he'd said the same to Clarkson himself 'years before' that. I'm not sure what the fallacy is.

What Kennett says in public is very different to what he says behind closed doors.

That is what Hodge said at the sportsman lunch I went to.

He was asked that exact question and he said Jeff talks a lot of crap in the media but the message is very different in the inner sanctum.

As Ripleys said...........Believe it or not

 

[MagpieJoel]

Yeah, believe it or not. Like Hodge is going to tell a group of people at a lunch what is said "behind closed doors".

 

[Scodog10]

I can't find the original thread.

It's easy to be an expert in hindsight though I guess.

Of course it is and that’s exactly why CEO’s are paid big bucks to fill the roles they do.

FWIW it’s even easier to make grandiose generalisations!

 

[jackcass]

I’ve experienced 2 hours of footballing bliss in my time as a supporter so I find it completely atently to read someone so vehemently opposed to me being envious of the 8 hours my best mates have experienced.

What about my dad. He’s 60 and been fortunate enough to have just 4 ******* hours in his life. You really think he gives a shit about bullshit excuses over zones? I don’t look at Hawthorn in envy for any reason other than memories of success generations of their supporters have witnessed. I personally want to share that with my children as I age. Is it too much to ask the club to aim for?..

I wasn't aware the club has said it isn't aiming for premierships. Got a link?

 

[CFC2010]

Yeah, believe it or not. Like Hodge is going to tell a group of people at a lunch what is said "behind closed doors".

He said a lot more about Jeff but its all positive so no point sharing as you are sick of the Hawthorn envy already.

What would Hodge gain by lying? He came across as a pretty down to earth bloke to me anyway.

 

[jackcass]

What Kennett says in public is very different to what he says behind closed doors.

That is what Hodge said at the sportsman lunch I went to.

He was asked that exact question and he said Jeff talks a lot of crap in the media but the message is very different in the inner sanctum.

As Ripleys said...........Believe it or not

Difference being 1 is straight from the horses mouth, the other heresay.

 

[MagpieJoel]

What would Hodge gain by lying? He came across as a pretty down to earth bloke to me anyway.

Footy players lie every day. They lie to preserve an image. If he makes a statement that rocks the boat it would get reported. So, it's easy to see why stories can be white washed.

 

[JB1975]

What Kennett says in public is very different to what he says behind closed doors.

That is what Hodge said at the sportsman lunch I went to.

He was asked that exact question and he said Jeff talks a lot of crap in the media but the message is very different in the inner sanctum.

As Ripleys said...........Believe it or not

You're a top bloke, CFC, one of the few who makes BF a positive place to be. I don't mean to sound too dismissive, but I'm not sure I'd put too much credibility in the stray comments of a footballer at a sportsman's function, especially given that --even as captain-- Luke Hodge was never privy to what was said behind certain doors at Hawthorn.

What remains on public record is what Kennett (a) said in public on a few occasions, and (b) what Kennett said that he told Clarkson in private. These make for compelling evidence of Kennett's madness on the issue, or at least how out of touch he was with the people who mattered most at the Club.

 

[CFC2010]

Difference being 1 is straight from the horses mouth, the other heresay.

As you said above have you got a link to Kennett (horses mouth) saying he will sack Clarkson?

 

[CFC2010]

You're a top bloke, CFC, one of the few who makes BF a positive place to be. I don't mean to sound too dismissive, but I'm not sure I'd put too much credibility in the stray comments of a footballer at a sportsman's function, especially given that --even as captain-- Luke Hodge was never privy to what was said behind certain doors at Hawthorn.

What remains on public record is what Kennett (a) said in public on a few occasions, and (b) what Kennett said that he told Clarkson in private. These make for compelling evidence of Kennett's madness on the issue, or at least how out of touch he was with the people who mattered most at the Club.

JB what has happened here is people are letting their dislike for Kennett cloud the real issue.........the fact is in the modern era Hawthorn just gets the job done.

As opposed to us who more often than not find something to distract us from what our ultimate goal "should" be.

 

[jackcass]

As you said above have you got a link to Kennett (horses mouth) saying he will sack Clarkson?

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/clarkson-should-leave-says-kennett-20130401-2h33r.html

 

[jackcass]

JB what has happened here is people are letting their dislike for Kennett cloud the real issue.........the fact is in the modern era Hawthorn just gets the job done.

As opposed to us who more often than not find something to distract us from what our ultimate goal "should" be.

I've got nothing against Kennett at Hawthorn, think overall he's been good for them. As Premier, now that's another story.

 

[JB1975]

JB what has happened here is people are letting their dislike for Kennett cloud the real issue.........the fact is in the modern era Hawthorn just gets the job done.

As opposed to us who more often than not find something to distract us from what our ultimate goal "should" be.

You're right, Hawthorn has managed to get the job done over the past four decades, but the issue here is with a 'vision' which claims that Hawthorn will also get the job done over the next three decades. I'm trying to suggest that there is no real connection between everything which Hawthorn have achieved in the past and everything which Kennett is hoping they'll achieve in the future. His vision is, plain and simple, an act of salesmanship.

The Collingwood Football Club aren't distracted from the ultimate goal, which is fundamentally the same as Hawthorn's goal, which is fundamentally the same as St Kilda's goal, and Fremantle's, and...etc etc. We all want that success, but the fact is that a sales pitch by club administrators won't really bring us any closer to it, and that has nothing to do with anyone's perceptions of Jeff Kennett.

 

[CFC2010]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/clarkson-should-leave-says-kennett-20130401-2h33r.html

"Former Hawthorn president Jeff Kennett says Hawks coach Alastair Clarkson should leave or be sacked at the end of the year.


"I think so. I had a discussion with Alastair some time ago. I have always believed six to eight years was as long enough as any coach should stay at any club," he said on radio station 3AW.

"Alastair has got some wonderful personal values, he has done great service at the club but he has been in charge of one of the best groups of young men going around in footy now for a number of years, certainly since 2008.

"There was an excuse in 2009 for our performance because of injury but 2010, 2011 and 2012, we have underperformed. Someone has to take responsibility for that."

Hawks chief executive Stuart Fox said Kennett's comments do not ''warrant a response''


Kennett saying "I think so" and Fox's response says enough to me. Call me gullible but I believed what Hodge said about Kennett.

 

[CFC2010]

I've got nothing against Kennett at Hawthorn, think overall he's been good for them. As Premier, now that's another story.

Agree totally about the Premier part.

 

[JB1975]

"Former Hawthorn president Jeff Kennett says Hawks coach Alastair Clarkson should leave or be sacked at the end of the year.


"I think so. I had a discussion with Alastair some time ago. I have always believed six to eight years was as long enough as any coach should stay at any club," he said on radio station 3AW.

"Alastair has got some wonderful personal values, he has done great service at the club but he has been in charge of one of the best groups of young men going around in footy now for a number of years, certainly since 2008.

"There was an excuse in 2009 for our performance because of injury but 2010, 2011 and 2012, we have underperformed. Someone has to take responsibility for that."

Hawks chief executive Stuart Fox said Kennett's comments do not ''warrant a response''


Kennett saying "I think so" and Fox's response says enough to me. Call me gullible but I believed what Hodge said about Kennett.

The fact that Kennett didn't get his way is indicative of the fact that his power at Hawthorn was ably balanced by others at the club, but his vision in relation to Clarkson was still horrendously flawed. The rest of the competition was left to lament that Kennett had a freer reign as Premier of the State than he did as President of Hawthorn.

 

[jackcass]

"Former Hawthorn president Jeff Kennett says Hawks coach Alastair Clarkson should leave or be sacked at the end of the year.


"I think so. I had a discussion with Alastair some time ago. I have always believed six to eight years was as long enough as any coach should stay at any club," he said on radio station 3AW.

"Alastair has got some wonderful personal values, he has done great service at the club but he has been in charge of one of the best groups of young men going around in footy now for a number of years, certainly since 2008.

"There was an excuse in 2009 for our performance because of injury but 2010, 2011 and 2012, we have underperformed. Someone has to take responsibility for that."

Hawks chief executive Stuart Fox said Kennett's comments do not ''warrant a response''


Kennett saying "I think so" and Fox's response says enough to me. Call me gullible but I believed what Hodge said about Kennett.

You asked for a link, I provided. There was lots of stuff at the time, print, radio, TV. Kennett has never been media shy or short of an opinion. There was even a loud chorus of support for his comments from the rank and file.

How it would have evolved as their season unfolded is anyone's guess but if he'd still been President at the time their year may well have taken a different turn.

 

[MagpieJoel]

FWIW it’s even easier to make grandiose generalisations!

Yes, my comments were very grandiose.

 

[magpies42]

You know Richmond won the flag because of the trust and enjoyment they trained and played with
It was a dedicated identified change
And aparantly made the place fun to be with
Played a team sport it's called bonding

I would prefer the AFL men’s team bonded and stopped wasting time promoting the women’s game with media conferences and pointless training sessions.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Boy do I wish we were as ruthlessly focused as Hawthorn on what really matters in competitive sport. I’m sorry 76woodenspooners, but Kennett knows what matters and ideals such as yours, whilst certainly admirable can’t compete with this type of ambition, IMO.

It’s all very well and good for the Hawthorn President to come out in 2017 with a statement like “20 flags by 2050” when they’ve had four in the last 10 years ...

... but reckon Collingwood could get away with that? Our last CEO came out with statements like “competing for a Premiership by 2017” and he ultimately got pilloried for it. If Ed had come out with Kennett’s plan we’d all be groaning.

Kennett is a politician’s politician and a skilled marketing man. He’s put out some lofty promise that captures the imagination of the masses. It sounds forward thinking, but all it means is that Kennett will never be held account for delivering it.

Let’s revisit this in 2050.

 

[Scodog10]

It’s all very well and good for the Hawthorn President to come out in 2017 with a statement like “20 flags by 2050” when they’ve had four in the last 10 years ...

... but reckon Collingwood could get away with that? Our last CEO came out with statements like “competing for a Premiership by 2017” and he ultimately got pilloried for it. If Ed had come out with Kennett’s plan we’d all be groaning.

Kennett is a politician’s politician and a skilled marketing man. He’s put out some lofty promise that captures the imagination of the masses. It sounds forward thinking, but all it means is that Kennett will never be held account for delivering it.

Let’s revisit this in 2050.

That is the key line! There’s every possibility that Kennett will have passed away by 2050 so who’ll be holding him accountable?

Now the question I was answering is what is our core business? This type of goal setting indicates that premiership success is Hawthorn’s and here you sit saying you couldn’t get away with that type of proclamation at Collingwood? That clearly indicates to me our culture is all over the place...

You’re a Ted Talk man, yes? I recently watched Simon Sinek’s speech on leadership and it resonated with me. He spoke of inward v outward communication of the what, how and why of what you do. Most of the population communicates the what, then the how and lastly the why and I think Collingwood does as well because we don’t truly live and breathe the why. Most supporters on here do based on the poll results, Hawthorn do based on their vision and the 7 pillars we’ve built our future plan on conflict with that view.

There are some people on here that I don’t particularly care for, but for 2 hours every weekend from March to October they are my brothers and sisters and we’re united by a common cause, Collingwood victory on the AFL sporting field! That’s our why and everything else is fluff, IMO.

I think the club has lost its why and it is a source of frustration for me...

Yes, my comments were very grandiose.

At least we can agree on one point