Could we still make the eight with out Maric?

[Tiger68]

Hampson is our best tap ruck statistically...... hit outs to advantage etc..... but is a liability in all other areas of his game.

I think centre clearances are pivotal, because the middle of the ground is a highly offensive position and players are spread in a traditional structure making it easy to score. For this reason I don't rate Maric as highly as many, and for this same reason I think Hampson has more potential than people are making out. Maric is our best number 1 ruckman, no doubt, it's just the polarisation I am challenging.

 

[nut]

I think centre clearances are pivotal, because the middle of the ground is a highly offensive position and players are spread in a traditional structure making it easy to score. For this reason I don't rate Maric as highly as many, and for this same reason I think Hampson has more potential than people are making out. Maric is our best number 1 ruckman, no doubt, it's just the polarisation I am challenging.

Tap outs are the most over rated stat in the AFL.... Marics influence on the game dwarfs Hampson into a tiny little field mouse.

 

[wart101]

yes!

 

[DrMike]

How come no mods have deleted their posts? It's not on topic?

It was left because the people involved were thread banned for having personal fights completely unrelated to the thread topic after being asked not to, however it seems other people want to get involved and I now have to remove it

Seriously, how hard is it people?

 

[Tiger08]

Excellent thread. Answer is no and it's a big worry.

Not sure how many fringe finals teams could make it without their first rucks either. Do many clubs have better back up options than we do?

 

[nut]

Excellent thread. Answer is no and it's a big worry.

Not sure how many fringe finals teams could make it without their first rucks either. Do many clubs have better back up options than we do?

Who is our back up?

 

[Tiger68]

Who is our back up?

Hampson would get first crack then Griffiths. club will want to leave Ty as the forward and relief ruck.

Hampson was named in the best in several games early this year when he played in the ruck. When Maric returned he was rightfully given thenumber 1 ruck spot, Hampson was sent forward and he struggled in that fwd ruck role for a couple of weeks and was ultimately dropped. However the last game he played as our number 1 ruckman was against GWS and he was arguably in the top 3 players. Anyone doubting Hampsons potential should watch this game, he gave our midfielders first use giving Mumford and Giles a bath and Richmond had its best win for the season.

Below is Richos six pointer assessment after the narrow round 7 loss to Geelong when Hampson was up against a quality ruck outfit.

Richo.....

"Shaun Hampson’s impact in the ruck should not be underestimated.
Hampson again was terrific with his ruckwork. I thought he dragged the Tigers back into the game with his dominance at the all-important centre bounces and around-the-ground stoppages. He finished with 37 hit-outs, seven contested possessions, six clearances (the second most by a Richmond player in the match), and an equal-game high three centre clearances, which underlined his impressive work-rate right throughout the match. The ex-Blue is certainly proving to be a valuable pick-up for the Tigers."

Hampson is a way better backup ruck than popular opinion would suggest.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

I reckon we could...if everyone else stayed fit and healthy.

We don't have the depth to cover 5-6 missing best 22 (or top 10) players at the same time.

Though if we start getting Soldo to start early on his mullet, we might be alright!

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Hampson would get first crack then Griffiths. club will want to leave Ty as the forward and relief ruck.

Hampson was named in the best in several games early this year when he played in the ruck. When Maric returned he was rightfully given thenumber 1 ruck spot, Hampson was sent forward and he struggled in that fwd ruck role for a couple of weeks and was ultimately dropped. However the last game he played as our number 1 ruckman was against GWS and he was arguably in the top 3 players. Anyone doubting Hampsons potential should watch this game, he gave our midfielders first use giving Mumford and Giles a bath and Richmond had its best win for the season.

Below is Richos six pointer assessment after the narrow round 7 loss to Geelong when Hampson was up against a quality ruck outfit.

Richo.....

"Shaun Hampson’s impact in the ruck should not be underestimated.
Hampson again was terrific with his ruckwork. I thought he dragged the Tigers back into the game with his dominance at the all-important centre bounces and around-the-ground stoppages. He finished with 37 hit-outs, seven contested possessions, six clearances (the second most by a Richmond player in the match), and an equal-game high three centre clearances, which underlined his impressive work-rate right throughout the match. The ex-Blue is certainly proving to be a valuable pick-up for the Tigers."

Hampson is a way better backup ruck than popular opinion would suggest.

Agreed on Hampson, he's a different beast to Maric (which maybe results in him getting judged by a different set of standards). When he got a run in the side earlier in the year, pretty sure he was ranked in the top 2 or 3 for avg hitouts and hitouts to advantage.

Perhaps the fact the team struggled and some thought we overpaid in the trade made him a scapegoat in some eyes.

Think I watched a video a few weeks ago about the club's Movember efforts and Hampson said he lost his father during the year? Plus he and Megan had a baby too I think. Fair to say he had a fair bit going on away from footy. Hopefully after a year settling in and a less eventful year off the field he can start playing some really good stuff for us. Definitely has a few things he needs to work on (I'm sure he's well aware of them and the coaches would let him know).

With Maric's groin to be an ongoing issue going forward, it's important we have a reliable backup at the club. I believe Hampson will prove to be the man.

 

[tigerdan]

Agreed on Hampson, he's a different beast to Maric (which maybe results in him getting judged by a different set of standards).

I don't think it's any secret that every year there will be one or two players who are on a hiding to nothing. Either becuase they are considered a dud, came from a club we hate (and loved booing him), or because getting him cost us a precious spot in the draft. Probably Hampson is all three in the eyes of some.

I thought it was a sensible thing to draft a player like him for backup last year. Someone to swap off the bench to give Maric a rest, and provide a headache for the opposition when plonked in the forward line. We didn't draft him to be #1 ruck. It's just the way things panned out when Maric wasn't playing.

To be honest, I think Vickery should deserve more stick than Hampson. Vickery is the guy who should have been the backup ruckman and who has been in the system long enough to be legitimate ruck/forward this year. Unfortunately Vickery is more or less a squib in the ruck and inconsistent as a forward. Lucky we have Griffiths on our list.

 

[Dr Tigris]

Maric is so important to us because once the tap work is done he is protects the mids, opens up space in congestion, acts as another mid and is a good forward. That is, he allows our contested ball winners a much easier job, and creates another option around the ground. As a pure ruck he is B grade at best. Given IMHO tap outs are much less important than contested ball and opportunities in general play he makes a huge positive difference.

Hampson is much better pure ruck, OKish at being the body in the way defensively, and very patchy around the ground. He has to use his bulk to protect the mids at the least. At the GWS game he took some marks and delivered some decent ball. If he can play like that he is a good AFL ruck. If all he does is taps, then he is probably a liability.

TV and Griff, good back ups. Not full time rucks. TV should be getting there. His best ruck work is OK, should be better. Around the ground he should thrive, fast skilled, like contests. Griff great size and athleticism, good mark, great kick. Both can be good ruck cut outs, and maybe TV can be a good AFL ruck (if he actually goes hard all the time).

My problem with this is that I don't think we can play Ivan and Hampster, with TV and Griff forward. Too tall. So Hampson plays VFL, and TV and Griff have to prove they can play together so that jack is free to do his thing. What I am saying here is that regardless of the ruck situation TV and Griff are playing to allow Jack to have more space and freedom. Their first role is being good enough KPFs to force the opposition to drop pressure on JR. In 2014 they weren't. If they can play FF and CHF to a good B grade AFL standard then jack is loose. That is almost the key to us winning a premiership. Their ruck role is secondary. if either becomes our no. 1 ruck then we have problems.

 

[tigerdan]

This post is spot on and just shows what a terrible drafting decision Hampson was.... a 26 year old that was given a huge amount of opurtunity to cement himself as a ruck and as a forward at the blues under 2 different coaches.... over 6 years He is a dud. Pure and simple. He will now stop the development of our back up Ruck in the VFL who ever that might be.

I don't think that post says Hampson was a terrible drafting decision. Maybe a quoting error nut?

I'm not being a smart ass when I ask what role do you think he was drafted for? I saw him purely as backup for Maric because the year before we rode Maric into the ground and our backup was... Angus Graham? You might not see much in Hampson but I see more in him than Graham. If you want to argue about what it cost us to get him them fair enough. But I think the idea was to get a guy who could let Maric rest at the end of each quarter and get plonked in the forward pocket every now and then (with a fair bit of time on the bench). More or less like any other backup ruckman/forward.

Like I said earlier, if Vickery had come on like expected, he'd be the one swapping with Maric in the ruck, and quite handy as a forward. As it stands he's only any good at rucking boundary throwins. Not a bad forward, but goes missing. I can see why they wanted to get Hampson.

 

[nut]

I don't think that post says Hampson was a terrible drafting decision. Maybe a quoting error nut?

I'm not being a smart ass when I ask what role do you think he was drafted for? I saw him purely as backup for Maric because the year before we rode Maric into the ground and our backup was... Angus Graham? You might not see much in Hampson but I see more in him than Graham. If you want to argue about what it cost us to get him them fair enough. But I think the idea was to get a guy who could let Maric rest at the end of each quarter and get plonked in the forward pocket every now and then (with a fair bit of time on the bench). More or less like any other backup ruckman/forward.

Like I said earlier, if Vickery had come on like expected, he'd be the one swapping with Maric in the ruck, and quite handy as a forward. As it stands he's only any good at rucking boundary throwins. Not a bad forward, but goes missing. I can see why they wanted to get Hampson.

My problem with this is that I don't think we can play Ivan and Hampster, with TV and Griff forward. Too tall. So Hampson plays VFL, and TV and Griff have to prove they can play together so that jack is free to do his thing. .

Id say spending pick 32 on a VFL player is poor drafting decision.....

 

[nut]

Most number 1 rucks like Maric spend 90% game time on the ground. Having a back up like Hampson that cant play forward and is a liabilty around the ground is fruitless.... hiding him on the bench reduces your rotations by 1 .... Ie: playing 1 player short. Hampson simply can not play in the same side as Maric.... and I would much prefer to play with out him all together and go with Vickery in the ruck and Griffith continuing as a the forward/ruck even with Maric out....

So he plays in the VFL as a back up to a back up to a back up..... for pick 32 its a waste.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

If we develop a centre half forward who pushes up and creates a option upon the wing like Ivan does we will be top 4 . Without that and without Ivan we are bottom 4 .

 

[nut]

If we develop a centre half forward who pushes up and creates a option upon the wing like Ivan does we will be top 4 . Without that and without Ivan we are bottom 4 .

I really think Griffith can be that player... HUGE year for him.

 

[Livonski]

I really think Griffith can be that player... HUGE year for him.

Agreed. Some of his work against Sydney especially was first rate. Really important he runs at the pill though. The following week he got stuck under high balls and was useless.
Reckon he's the one though. Grab on the wing swing around and boom, it's 30m out from goal.

 

[nut]

Agreed. Some of his work against Sydney especially was first rate. Really important he runs at the pill though. The following week he got stuck under high balls and was useless.
Reckon he's the one though. Grab on the wing swing around and boom, it's 30m out from goal.

If they can leave him to learn one roll instead making him take ruck duties as well it will help him alot.

 

[tigerdan]

Most number 1 rucks like Maric spend 90% game time on the ground. Having a back up like Hampson that cant play forward and is a liabilty around the ground is fruitless.... hiding him on the bench reduces your rotations by 1 .... Ie: playing 1 player short. Hampson simply can not play in the same side as Maric.... and I would much prefer to play with out him all together and go with Vickery in the ruck and Griffith continuing as a the forward/ruck even with Maric out....

So he plays in the VFL as a back up to a back up to a back up..... for pick 32 its a waste.

I agree with what you are saying, but mate you'd have to agree Hampson is better than Graham (left at the end of 2012), Derickx (left at the end of 2013) or Stephenson (delisted this year). So really the issue is not that Hampson is not very good, rather what we paid to get him. We were stuffed two years ago when we had no-one to provide chop out in the ruck and we ran Maric into the ground. Actually Stephenson wasn't bad, just completely one dimensional.

At the time Griffiths was on the outer and if anything playing full back. He was not the answer (but could well be now). Vickery was hardly setting the world on fire in the ruck either. So it was keep Graham or Derickx and get absolutely demolished if Maric got injured, or find a replacement.

With that in mind I think the issue is what we paid for Hampson, not how good he is. And there's NFW a kid drafted last year would be knocking on the door in his first season. So what option did we have? Persist with Derickx or Stephenson? Maybe we could have traded for a genuine ruck, but that would have cost much more. Or go for a complete stab in the dark but run the risk of him not being any better than what we got rid of.

With hindsight it might not work out (the jury is still out given he's still on our list), but I can see what the thinking was at the time.

 

[nut]

But mate you'd have to agree Hampson is better than Graham (left at the end of 2012), Derickx (left at the end of 2013) or Stephenson (delisted this year). So really the issue is not that Hampson is not very good, rather what we paid to get him. We were stuffed two years ago when we had no-one to provide chop out in the ruck and we ran Maric into the ground. Actually Stephenson wasn't bad, just completely one dimensional.

At the time Griffiths was on the outer and if anything playing full back. He was not the answer (but could well be now). Vickery was hardly setting the world on fire in the ruck either. So it was keep Graham or Derickx and get absolutely demolished if Maric got injured, or find a replacement.

With that in mind I think the issue is what we paid for Hampson, not how good he is. And there's NFW a kid drafted last year would be knocking on the door in his first season. So what option did we have? Persist with Derickx or Stephenson? Maybe we could have traded for a genuine ruck, but that would have cost much more. Or go for a complete stab in the dark but run the risk of him not being any better than what we got rid of.

With hindsight it might not work out (the jury is still out given he's still on our list), but I can see what the thinking was at the time.

It was a stupid trade.... I would have preferred Dericjx and and kept pick 32 and saved the 250k ...given Matty white a better deal so he stayed. I didn't need hindsight... I said it then and say it know.

 

[tigerdan]

It was a stupid trade.... I would have preferred Dericjx and and kept pick 32 and saved the 250k ...given Matty white a better deal so he stayed. I didn't need hindsight... I said it then and say it know.

Fair enough.

At the end of the day probably Griffiths has stepped up to be the pinch hitter. But at the time I think he was being groomed as full back with his huge kick. Personally i'm more disappointed at Vickery as a ruck than Hampson but we'll just have to see what happens next year.

 

[wart101]

It was a stupid trade.... I would have preferred Dericjx and and kept pick 32 and saved the 250k ...given Matty white a better deal so he stayed. I didn't need hindsight... I said it then and say it know.

If it was as simple as that then so would i

 

[wart101]

Griffo is going to be worth 400k+ to us easy.

 

[Heisenberg_]

Ok guys, been a clear misunderstanding here, time to move on and get back on topic please.

 

[nut]

He'll tear it up next year. Mark my words. Top 6 in our B&F.

VFL?