Craig Cameron

[Bojangles17]

Moore, Thursfield and McGuane are all best suited to play not KPP. .

thats only to suit your misguided off beam argument, facts are they have done it very successfully, on sunday they had 55 possies between them...Not bad when you consider an AVG experience of ~30 games. you say our talls are deplorable, compared to what...

Hughes , 21yo would have kicked more goals at VFL level than any other listed player and has shown enough at senior level to be given further chances

Sarge has had a terrific year at CHB, avg 17 possies a game

Riewoldt has had a promising full year in seniors, a good base to build on

Rance..untried, Huge wraps

Gourdis...untried...promising signs at VFL level

Putt...Raw...travellign as expected at this point...

There wouldnt be too many other sides around us with such an embarrasment of riches...I'd recommend that when you throw the caustic references into the room you qualify them a tad....

EXAMPLE...our talls are deplorable compared to the lions 3 time premeirship line up, then we know where you're coming from

without that important qualification, it's little more than mindless drivel spun from a tormented mind.

 

[nut]

Our 2006 and 2007 drafts have been great. It was TW/miller's decision like in 2005 to only take 3 picks in 2007 and also trade away picks for mcmahon and jeopordise our chance of picking riewoldt. As for JON he might be a mistake on jackson's part, but at the time he was only working for the club part time.

Not sure what you mean because it doesn't really make any sense.

2005 we kept all our first 3 picks and picked up JON, Hughes and Casserly... Jacksons first year and probably our worst.... still could turn out to be a ripper.
Riewoldt was 2006 draft after swapping picks and getting Polak. Probably one of the best trades this club has seen, so I dont get what you saying.

Last year we swapped picks 19 and 35 and got Mcmahon and Morton which you would say was a success as well.

 

[beaver fever]

Not sure what you mean because it doesn't really make any sense.

2005 we kept all our first 3 picks and picked up JON, Hughes and Casserly... Jacksons first year and probably our worst.... still could turn out to be a ripper.
Riewoldt was 2006 draft after swapping picks and getting Polak. Probably one of the best trades this club has seen, so I dont get what you saying.

Last year we swapped picks 19 and 35 and got Mcmahon and Morton which you would say was a success as well.

- We took 3 picks because we traded our 4th for Patrick Bowden. Not to mention not upgrading picks or trading for more. 2005 is a disaster, unbelievable that you think it may turn out chipper.

- Riewoldt would have been taken with pick 8, and we traded it away to get Polak, a player who already showed many deficiencies and it was only through dumb luck that Riewoldt slipped it our pick 13. That is not the right way to go about recruitment.

- As for trading 19 for McMahon, that was a disaster of a trade. We already traded 35 for a flanker which was probably the right thing to do considering that he came so cheap and that we couldn't rely on Pettifer. 2 picks for flankers when our list is already inundated with them is mind boggling.

 

[thecotch]

Moore, Thursfield and McGuane are all best suited to play not KPP. They are hitting above their weight and I'm not talking about their height, although height advantage is always a plus. Next in line we have Rance and Gourdis. Silvestor will be delisted.

Moore (24), Thursfield (22), McGuane (21), Rance (18), Gourdis (18)

Richardson is close to retirement. Hughes is a softy and while he has talent, he isn't an AFL player in my book. Schulz has given us 6 years of mediocrity and should have been moved on already. Riewoldt will play CHF for sure. So one 19 year old we have. Not very impressive list of forwards.

Richardson (33), Schulz (23), Hughes (21), Riewoldt (19)

Rucks are looking very very bad. Simmonds is close to retirement. Pattison is not a ruckman and to be honest although I love his endevour he is a borderline dud. Cartledge is soft and will probably be promoted because of how bad the state of our rucks are. Graham has not improved one bit from last year and Putt is still too raw.

Simmonds (30), Pattison (22), Graham (21), Putt (19).

With Polak gone and at least 4-6 players listed more likely than not going to make it, in addition to impending retirements to Richardson and Simmonds, our talls are on a knife's edge.

I disagree strongly with you on schulz. He's had a really good year and his only problem is the coach still can't decide if he's a forward or a defender. Clearly he plays his best footy on the backline and we should keep him next year unless a really good deal comes up.

 

[beaver fever]

Hughes , 21yo would have kicked more goals at VFL level than any other listed player and has shown enough at senior level to be given further chances has shown he has poor application and is useless once the ball hits the deck. We delisted limbach because he was a one trick pony. Hughes doesn't do the trick good enough to cancel out his deficiencies.

Sarge has had a terrific year at CHB, avg 17 possies a game I'm sorry but since when did Schulz play KPP. He has been the loose man in defense, like Polak was last year. Sure he has improved, but he is 23 now and hasn't shown anywhere near enough.

Riewoldt has had a promising full year in seniors, a good base to build on will be a great player for us.

Rance..untried, Huge wraps I have confidence he will overtake McGuane.

Gourdis...untried...promising signs at VFL level Extremely raw

Putt...Raw...travellign as expected at this point... Extremely raw

Where are the rucks to replace Simmonds? Can we afford to have a 21 year old Riewoldt as our top KP foward in 2010 when Richardson retires? There is no balance, there is no depth, there is only big gaping holes.

 

[beaver fever]

I disagree strongly with you on schulz. He's had a really good year and his only problem is the coach still can't decide if he's a forward or a defender. Clearly he plays his best footy on the backline and we should keep him next year unless a really good deal comes up.

If he can't play KP then he is of no use to us. He certainly hasn't been playing as a KP defender this year. McGuane and Moore have.

 

[nut]

-

We took 3 picks because we traded our 4th for Patrick Bowden. Not to mention not upgrading picks or trading for more. 2005 is a disaster, unbelievable that you think it may turn out chipper.

Patrick Bowden had an Awesome year 2006 and then feel out or form after injuries. Casserly if he gets his body right will be a gun from all accounts and Hughes is a 21 year old FF and has time on his side. JON is still developing.

Not upgrading Picks???? At the end of 2005 who could have we used to up grade picks.... who wasn't a required player that had any value? we had nil.

- Riewoldt would have been taken with pick 8, and we traded it away to get Polak, a player who already showed many deficiencies and it was only through dumb luck that Riewoldt slipped it our pick 13. That is not the right way to go about recruitment.

That IS the right way to go about recruitment.... you need to take risks and it paid off. WELL DONE I say. Polak was 22.

- As for trading 19 for McMahon, that was a disaster of a trade. We already traded 35 for a flanker which was probably the right thing to do considering that he came so cheap and that we couldn't rely on Pettifer. 2 picks for flankers when our list is already inundated with them is mind boggling.

If a disaster trade lands us a player that finds the football over 500 times and is instrumental in a dozen victories then I'll take a disaster trade every year.

Morton is a Quality forward... hardly a flanker type.

 

[beaver fever]

nut you clearly have no idea about what constitutes a good player.

 

[nut]

nut you clearly have no idea about what constitutes a good player.

Mcmahon isn't a superstar but he has added depth and experience to the side. His run off half back has been good in parts and for his first year at a new club has been ok.

Does Mcmahon= pick 19.... maybe not.

But if you bundle Morton and Mcmahon for picks 19 and 35 I say we are well in front.

http://finalsiren.com/PlayerCompare...yerName3=&PlayerName4=&SelectedPlayers=11,13,


... just a comparison... nothing against Newman.

 

[nut]

I stole this from Puntroadend... I don go there often but found this from Tiger Balme

Greetings fellow Tiger Tragic's, very LONG time read.

The reason for me to finally post is after reading through a number of threads recently and seeing the blind faith shown in our List Manager, Craig Cameron. I'll admit I knew nothing of Craig before he was signed as initially, head of recruiting and more recently, our List Manager.

I undertook some research to find out a little more about Cameron as a recruiter and as a List Manager. I have to admit, I am not nearly as excited as some on these boards and to be perfectly honest.... I hold some pretty grave concerns regarding his previous tenure at Melbourne. Looking at the current MFC list, it is absolutely diabolical and they are so far away from even being competitive, you have to wonder about there future in the AFL.

So, on with research....Recruited to Melbourne's recruitment Department in 1997. His actual recruiting of players is nothing short of completely unwhelming and in all honesty.. I'd go as far to say that he has played a big part in where that club now finds itself. Let's look at the breakdown:

1998 ND:

Pick 13: Chris Lamb - Failure
Pick 60: Luke Speers- Failure

Traded Pick 31 for Scott Chisolm. Traded Pick 49 for Nick Carter. Failures.

Preseason Draft: Troy Simmonds - Success.

Failure.

1999 ND:

Pick 19 - Brad Green - Success
Pick 20 - Paul Wheatley - Success
Pick 42 - Michael J Clarke - Failure
Pick 50 - Matthew Whelan - Success
Pick 64 - Cameron Bruce - Success


Trades: Stephen Powell: Failure?

Preseason: James Cook, Stephen Pitt and Simon Godfrey? Umm??

You'd have to call it a success.

2000 ND:

Pick 16: Scott Thompson - The Adelaide version, I did some hunting around, they got pick 12 some years later, so thats a win.
Pick 62: Daniel Breese - Failure
Pick 73: Ross Funcke.... lol, after us.... Failure.
Pick 80: Mitchell Craig - Failure

No trades, but I couldn't find the pick in between 16 and 62, apparently, taken from them due to salary cap issues.

Preseason Nick Gill - Delisted - Failure

Hard to judge with that important second pick gone... but it wasn't looking good.

2001 ND:

Pick 9: Luke Molan - Failure, never played a game.
Pick 25: Steven Armstrong: Failure, still plays sh!t football with WCE.
Pick 26: Aaron Rogers: Failure, played about 2 games.
Pick55: Brad Miller


Traded Farmer to Fremantle for Pick 17, which they gave to Geelong for Clint Bizzell along with pick 41, Traded Pick 56 to Adelaide for Peter Vardy, Traded Troy Simmonds to Fremantle and got Craig Ellis from The Bulldogs who got Daniel Bandy.

Epic Failure.

2002 ND:

Pick 14: Daniel Bell: Can't comment but according to David Schwarz on SEN, he's gone.
Pick 15: Nick Smith: Failure
Pick 26: Jared Rivers, Success, good player
Pick 39: Gary Moorecroft, Epic Failure
Pick 54: Cameron Hunter, Failure
Pick 66: Ryan Ferguson: Failure

Traded Pick 12 for Chris Heffernan and Pick 15
Traded Shane Woewodin for Pick 14.

Failure.

2003 ND:

Pick 3: Colin Sylvia: Not sure how to rate him.... I don't think he's done pick 3 a service.
Pick 5: Brock McLean: He goes very well: Definate Success.
Pick 36: Chris Johnson - whoever he is

Traded pick 21 for Ben Holland - lol Thanks for that!

Got Phil Read in the PSD and Aaron Davey in the Rookie Draft

You'd expect more with 3 5 and 21 that Sylvia McLean and Holland.

2004 ND

Pick 13: Matthew Bate - No champion, good flanker
Pick 15: Lynden Dunn - My guess is he'll be delisted, couldn't play a regular game and came under the pump by David Schwarz doing the Melbourne review.
Pick 43: Michael Newton - Still plays but from what I've seen, which is limited.... I don't think he'll make it.

Traded Scott Thompson to Adelaide for pick 12... WTF! and used that Pick 12 to get Brent Moloney from Geelong.... EPIC FAILURE... Scott Thompson is a gun.\ Traded Darren Jolly to Sydney for pick 15...... Sydney the clear winner.

Failure.

2005 ND:

Pick 12: Nathan Jones: Goes alright... but Pick 12 but with Birchall, Varcoe, Hughes Ibbotson, McKinley, Vince and Douglas all taken after... not so good.
Pick 53: Simon Buckley: The guy with the big teeth from sunday.... it isn't looking good.

Traded 28 and 44 for Byron Pickett and 53 - Epic Failure.

2006 ND:

Pick 12: James Frawley - Word is he is set to be used as trade bait, again courtesy of the media. You'd have to say this is a massive failure.
Pick 30: Ricky Petterd - Has been re-signed.

Absolute failure with Pick 12 being used on Frawley:Reiwoldt, Sellar, Brown, Hampson, Jetta, Djerrkura, Edwards, Tippett, the list goes on......

I won't use 2007, too early to tell...

Epic failures in the first round.

That to me does nothing to tell me this is the right man going forward, but lets go on....






Became General Manager of List Management in 2005

Responsible for giving Jeff White, Brad Green, Cameron Bruce, Travis Johnson and Adem Yze massive pay increases, along with Clint Bizzell that fat 350k a year deal for 2 years when he was finished.........


I'm genuinely scared for our future with this guy in charge of all our list management.

 

[nut]

nut you clearly have no idea about what constitutes a good player.

Niether does Cameron by the looks

 

[Tigerbob]

I don't know what to think of Cameron as yet, we will all get a clearer understanding after this years draft and beyond that.

He does have a fantastic reputation throughout the football industry, that much I can tell you. Someone with that good a reputation must be doing something right?

Onto the great debate that rages with the McMahon for Pick 19.

It was an absolute disaster, one of the biggest blunder trades that has occurred. Jordan McMahon was an outskirt player with the Western Bulldogs, and he wanted to leave. Port had a go, from my sources a pick above 30 was offered to which the bulldogs maintained interest. In steps Richmond, after convincing McMahon we were the club that will look after him and support him with all his personal problems, also give him a pay increase for no apparent reason, we then offered the Bulldogs a ridiculous pick that even took them by surprise. I know a very prominent Bulldog administrator that was astounded by the offer and couldn't agree fast enough.

What McMahon offers is an outside flanker position that with recent recruiting, we have bundles of. He was of absolute no use to us in anyway and next year may take the place of a junior who with the right development, may turn out to be a better player than him (Meyer and Casserley). The funny thing may turn out to be that Scott Selwood may turn out to be the exact player we were craving. Funny how it always works out like that.

Of course this is of no fault of McMahon and any abuse hurdled directly at him is in fact quite low, but at the coach in Wallace and past recruiter in Miller abuse is well deserved.

I'm going to give Cameron a chance, after all, we gave Miller 6 years and Wallace so far 4 years, surely he couldn't do worse.

 

[nut]

I'm going to give Cameron a chance, after all, we gave Miller 6 years and Wallace so far 4 years, surely he couldn't do worse.

Well seeing that the side he helped build at Melbourne is 16th and odds on to be the first Vic club to die or merge since Fitzroy, can we really afford to give him a chance???


To the TW bashers and the posters that have got so much anger towards our list and they way in which Miller and TW have built it...can you please explain why you feel Cameron is more Qualified to take the raines??

We've turned over 25 odd players since TW arrived with only a handful of players being left at the start of next season.
TW has payed the Kids..
TW has delisted the hacks...

 

[nut]

Well seeing that the side he helped build at Melbourne is 16th and odds on to be the first Vic club to die or merge since Fitzroy, can we really afford to give him a chance???


To the TW bashers and the posters that have got so much anger towards our list and they way in which Miller and TW have built it...can you please explain why you feel Cameron is more Qualified to take the raines??

We've turned over 25 odd players since TW arrived with only a handful of players being left at the start of next season.
TW has payed the Kids..
TW has delisted the hacks...

still no response by the TW bashers..

 

[_RT_]

????? why has been given so much power???? He didn't exactly leave Melbourne in a great state did he.

Personally I dont think the club could have done much beter than they have over the last 4 years. To completely overhaul the list and now be knocking on the door to the finals is a great achievement.

I think Cameron has been given the job to take some of the load away from Wallace. The last few years he has had to be the head coach, list manager & media spokeman amongst other things. Perhaps the board just wants Wallace to focus on coaching over the next 12 months. I mean take a look last year when Wallace was doing everything we struggled(yes I know we had injury issues as well). This year with him focusing more on the side and getting them ready for the weekend we shot up the ladder and saw improvement come from a number of younger players.

Hopefully next year he will just coach the side and we will improve again. Seems reasonable don't you think?

 

[nut]

I think Cameron has been given the job to take some of the load away from Wallace. The last few years he has had to be the head coach, list manager & media spokeman amongst other things. Perhaps the board just wants Wallace to focus on coaching over the next 12 months. I mean take a look last year when Wallace was doing everything we struggled(yes I know we had injury issues as well). This year with him focusing more on the side and getting them ready for the weekend we shot up the ladder and saw improvement come from a number of younger players.

Hopefully next year he will just coach the side and we will improve again. Seems reasonable don't you think?

I'm not questioning the role, but the person in it.

 

[_RT_]

Can I just say Nut, judging the guy by comparing picks he took over the years against players taken afterwards is not that smart. In hindsight everything is crystal clear. Hardly Camerons fault if the players he recommended didn't develop as planned. At the time I would suggest that most recruiters would have had the players he took with those picks around the mark.

I mean if every recruiter/list manager was to lose their jobs because a draft pick didn't work our there would be 16 looking for work every year.

 

[nut]

Can I just say Nut, judging the guy by comparing picks he took over the years against players taken afterwards is not that smart. In hindsight everything is crystal clear. Hardly Camerons fault if the players he recommended didn't develop as planned. At the time I would suggest that most recruiters would have had the players he took with those picks around the mark.

I mean if every recruiter/list manager was to lose their jobs because a draft pick didn't work our there would be 16 looking for work every year.

all I'm saying that is he doesn't seem to have the runs on the board... and in the last few years he was Melbournes list Manager.. and they are now 16th.. our directions seems to be going ok they way it was with Miller and TW.

 

[_RT_]

all I'm saying that is he doesn't seem to have the runs on the board... and in the last few years he was Melbournes list Manager.. and they are now 16th.. our directions seems to be going ok they way it was with Miller and TW.

You and a few posters on this board may have thought it was heading in the right direction, but the fact is the board believed it wasn't and that is why Miller is no longer here. I suspect this was because Miller along with Wallace was planning an end of season that would have rivalled Frawleys top up. I now feel a lot more at ease knowing that someone who has nothing to gain/lose from making the decisions, i.e. $500k per year contract, is the one who is making the decisions.

Cameron hasn't even had his first draft yet and already it seems like people are lobbying for his head. Yet they want to give others more time to prove they are still the right choice. Only at Richmond.

 

[nut]

You and a few posters on this board may have thought it was heading in the right direction, but the fact is the board believed it wasn't and that is why Miller is no longer here. I suspect this was because Miller along with Wallace was planning an end of season that would have rivalled Frawleys top up. I now feel a lot more at ease knowing that someone who has nothing to gain/lose from making the decisions, i.e. $500k per year contract, is the one who is making the decisions.

Cameron hasn't even had his first draft yet and already it seems like people are lobbying for his head. Yet they want to give others more time to prove they are still the right choice. Only at Richmond.

so you are unhappy with the list we have now???? I know I'm not. The argument that we were chasing big name players is pure speculation, although Kerr at the right price would add heaps to our midfield.... not my choice but looking at all available Talent is the job of the recruiting/list manager.

 

[_RT_]

so you are unhappy with the list we have now???? I know I'm not. The argument that we were chasing big name players is pure speculation, although Kerr at the right price would add heaps to our midfield.... not my choice but looking at all available Talent is the job of the recruiting/list manager.

Never said I was unhappy with the list. What I was referring to was the fact that those in charge of the club thought there was a better way of doing things instead of Miller and Wallace doing it all. They have no invested more money into getting in people who will be wholly and solely responsible for one area. Cameron brought in as List Manager. ???????? brought in as the Head of Football. Tell me whats better having the load spread across 3-4 people or having 2 people do all the work?

Perhaps now Wallace can finally dedicate all his time to coaching instead of having to attend to other matters because there was no-one else there to do it.

BTW who said it was players I was talking about when I said we are still giving others time.

 

[nut]

Here are are the views from the Melbourne board

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=489981


Not a glowing report...

 

[Top_4_Tiger]

All the recruiters say CC is one of the best, and they would know better than a supporter.

How much of a say did Daniher have?

It seems CC has left Melbourne with a very strong group of kids. The problem with Melbourne's list was letting average players play till they're 31 and not keeping a balanced list.

Melbourne's low budget for recruiting didn't make things easy. With Daniher's 'input' and Melbourne's need to just play finals (extended time down the bottom would be terrible) leaves me not jumping up and down, but I'm not that worried either.

 

[nut]

All the recruiters say CC is one of the best, and they would know better than a supporter.

How much of a say did Daniher have?

It seems CC has left Melbourne with a very strong group of kids. The problem with Melbourne's list was letting average players play till they're 31 and not keeping a balanced list.

Melbourne's low budget for recruiting didn't make things easy. With Daniher's 'input' and Melbourne's need to just play finals (extended time down the bottom would be terrible) leaves me not jumping up and down, but I'm not that worried either.

more evidence from Melb supporters


http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=487250&page=3

 

[nut]

All the recruiters say CC is one of the best, and they would know better than a supporter.

How much of a say did Daniher have?

Exactly... you would say that Daniher would have relied on the opinion of Craig Cameron to make the decisions... and the decisions have been poor.