Cricket's past greats are too critical!

[catman 71]

Thing is mate, all international cricket sides have adopted this rotation policy as well, I don't know why people continually dismiss this and just bag the Aussies. Matt Prior was quoted the other day as saying it is a necessity in the modern game.

I didn't agree with the Starc one last Test, but was all for it in the Sydney Test as he would have played 4 in a row. In the end, wouldn't have really mattered if he had played at the MCG, due to SL facing only 60 overs.

Having a plethora of options for the Ashes etc is exactly what this rotation stuff also helps with, on top of keeping the best players at the peak of their powers when playing.

Modern sport is what it is, the sooner people accept it the more enjoyment you'll get from watching.

On the rotation policy.

I don't see what the problem is when we are winning Tests, and when every single replacement has delivered.

Did Bird perform? Did Starc perform? Mitchell Johnson? Every single bowler they have introduced into the side this summer has delivered, so "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

Rotation happens in AFL too. Geelong rotated their players, and rested all but Mackie in 2011, with most missing because of "general soreness" aka rest. Yet it meant that Geelong were fitter and fresher in the 2011 finals and won the GF as a result.

Also, if the ICC didn't schedule so many tours and series against all and sundry, then players may be able to have time off to rest. But today, they have to play a form of cricket all year round, with no off-season. So, if players then need to be rested to stop them breaking down, so be it.

 

[CAS79]

Years ago when the WI were over here one game Chappell kept going on and on about how Desmond Haynes switching to a very open batting stance was a bad idea and it showed how out of form he was. Haynes then went on to make a big hundred and he then hardly said anything to praise the bloke.

Strikes me as someone that would never admit they were wrong.

You only need go far back as day 5 at Adleade for Chappel. He and Slater made a big song and dance before the start of play about how the Saffies strategy for Lyon was going to be shot down in flames..... It worked a treat and we've heard nothing from either.

 

[catman 71]

I'd rather there be some balanced criticism, along with praise when deserved, than the man-love of the type Slater and Healy dish out at everyone wearing a baggy green.

I'm not saying that they need to have man-love (which I hate as much as constant criticism). The current wankfest that the media have about Warne playing the Ashes is nauseating.

I have more time for someone's criticism when they are someone who (a) is balanced in their views, and is positive about aspects of the game too, and is almost coming from a place of "Cricket is great, but this is how we can make it even better", and (b) when the person making the criticism has a suggestion of what should be done instead.

A lot of these negative nellies I listed criticise, but never offer a better alternative. How do they, or any of you know that this may be the best way of doing things at this time, and once something better comes along, they will adopt it. Sometimes it is not the best idea, but it is the "only" idea.

I would like to see more balance. These Legends should express their views, but when they fail to ever include positive commentary in that, I can only assume that they find nothing positive in the sport, and then question why they ever played it to begin with. They got paid from cricket, yet "bites the hand that feeds them".

These Legends should remember that, without cricket, they may not have been as famous as they are.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

There's plenty of Botham's, and R.G. Willis wheeling their special comments on English Tellyl

 

[golions]

I read an article where a lot of cricket's past players were criticial of the player rotation policy, and then complained about how much harder they had it in their day.

It got me to thinking that I can't think of another sport where there seem to be so many past greats who just man, whinge and criticize today's players, selectors, and how the game is played.

I mean if there is any controversy in cricket, you can bet that you will hear from the following:-

Jeff Thomson, Geoff Lawson, Allan Border, Steve Waugh, Dean Jones, Ian Chappell, Rodney Hogg, just to name a few, and you can bet that whatever they say will be negative about cricket. Most of them offer their opinion, and come across as bitter old has-beens, who can't accept that the game has passed them by.

I mean, I can't think of another sport where so many past players are critical of today's generation of players. Most of these didn't think Michael Clarke should be captain, and were critical of Ponting as captain as well. They criticize EVERY selection decision, and have very little to offer the way of positive opinion to the sport which made them famous.

You do get one or two past greats in other sports who do the same thing, but never as many as cricket, and not at every opportunity. I know that people like Wallsy and others criticize today's AFL players, but most of them are in the media, so it's their job.

I didn't see someone like Pete Sampras running down Roger Federer. In fact, he has got behind the guy who took his record, and wanted to present the record-breaking Grand Slam trophy to him. I can't imagine anyone in cricket doing that.

Someone like Jeff Thomson needs to crawl back in the hole he came out of. He is just upset that Lillee got most of the attention when he played. Since he and some of these other past players show today's players a lack of respect, today's players shouldn't have to respect the past players either.

Just because you are a Legend, doesn't mean that you can say whatever stupid drivel comes out of your mouth. So some of these past cricketers should STFU and go away, or support the players and enjoy seeing cricket grow for today and future generations.

OP is correct for the most part.

However, not all past greats are like that.

Take Bill Lawry for example, a great who likes to see new players come through and succeed. He also likes to see new/aggressive tactics come off and generally puts a positive spin on the game of cricket.

The man is a legend

 

[Plugger35]

Bob Willis is a classic, he rips in off the long run with his scathing criticisms, just tells it like it is rather than sitting on the fence like most commentators and is always entertaining. Shame there isn't someone like him in the Ch9 commentary box, without Tony Greig it's like the Aussie cheerleading squad.

 

[BACCS]

Can I just ask the last time Anderson, Steyn or Morkel were "rotated"?

England wicket-keeper Matt Prior believes rotation is simply part of the modern game and said it was a policy adopted by Australia's Ashes rivals.

Without it, Prior argued, careers would be shortened through injury.

England aren't without their injury dramas either, paceman Stuart Broad picked up a heel injury in the recent Test series which rules him out for the one-day matches.

'I think it's going to happen more and more with the amount of cricket going on with different competitions ... Test matches, Twenty20, 50-over cricket,' Prior said on Thursday.

'In England there's a rotation policy happening. It is necessary.

'You want your best players and best performers ready for the big games and the big series.

'If you try and get those guys to play every day, I think you're going to probably shorten their careers.

'You've got to look after your assets like you would in any business.'

http://www.bigpondsport.com/ponting-hits-out-at-rotation-critics/tabid/91/newsid/100281/default.aspx

Only going off by what Prior has said. I'm pretty sure Anderson doesn't play many (if any) T20s anymore. I'm sure he misses the odd one dayer as well.

Siddle was only rested from Perth due to the short turnaround. Siddle also doesn't play one dayers or T20s anymore, so there is one bowler who will play all Tests. He is our main man, so just using it as a counter example to Anderson.

Morkel has had plenty of injury troubles over his career, same as Steyn. Steyn also didn't start playing at the real early age at international level like Patto, Starc etc, so his body is able to handle higher workloads. Steyn and Morkel also both missed a T20 game recently against NZ.

 

[frankrizzo]

Yep what i said earlier, england rest their test stars from shorter forms of the game so they are fit to play in every test match possible, australia on the other hand have test match bowlers playing 20/20 cricket overseas right before the start of a 20 test marathon.

 

[BACCS]

Yep what i said earlier, england rest their test stars from shorter forms of the game so they are fit to play in every test match possible, australia on the other hand have test match bowlers playing 20/20 cricket overseas right before the start of a 20 test marathon.

I presume you are talking about Starc? If Patto hadn't have broken down again (and then Hilfy going), Starc still wouldn't have played a Test this summer. Hard to blame the selectors and coaches on that one.

 

[The_Reaper]

http://www.bigpondsport.com/ponting-hits-out-at-rotation-critics/tabid/91/newsid/100281/default.aspx

Only going off by what Prior has said. I'm pretty sure Anderson doesn't play many (if any) T20s anymore. I'm sure he misses the odd one dayer as well.

Siddle was only rested from Perth due to the short turnaround. Siddle also doesn't play one dayers or T20s anymore, so there is one bowler who will play all Tests. He is our main man, so just using it as a counter example to Anderson.

Morkel has had plenty of injury troubles over his career, same as Steyn. Steyn also didn't start playing at the real early age at international level like Patto, Starc etc, so his body is able to handle higher workloads. Steyn and Morkel also both missed a T20 game recently against NZ.

Are there any examples of players being rested from test matches?

 

[DaRick]

On the rotation policy.

I don't see what the problem is when we are winning Tests, and when every single replacement has delivered.

Did Bird perform? Did Starc perform? Mitchell Johnson? Every single bowler they have introduced into the side this summer has delivered, so "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

John Hastings?

(Although I blame our batsmen more than our bowlers for our loss to SA in Perth; I really doubt that Jackson Bird would have prevented that defeat)

 

[frankrizzo]

I presume you are talking about Starc?

hilf, he looked bored and half fit in the 20/20 stuff, they clearly had him down as an vital bowler for the test summer so why wasn't he at home playing 4 day cricket?

 

[frankrizzo]

Are there any examples of players being rested from test matches?

I can't recall bowlers like steyn morkel anderson ect being rested in the middle of a major test series.

If they are injured they miss out if they are declared fit they play, seems to work for them and it worked fine for us for many many years.

 

[catman 71]

Not that simple, IMO.

Some past cricketers do come across as bitter whinging pricks (Neil Harvey is the worst offender IMO) but there are times when their criticisms are in fact valid. For example, any criticisms leveled at Hilditch, Nielsen, Sutherland etc. after the 2010/11 Ashes mess would probably have been called for.

No doubt that the validity of criticisms varies from ex-player to ex-player though. The likes of AB and Steve Waugh I would be more inclined to trust, Ian Chappell I would take seriously sometimes, whereas someone like Neil Harvey or Jeff Thomson probably couldn't air any constructive criticism if they tried.

The selectors can be blamed very little for the 2010/11 debacle. They weren't the ones who got bowled out for 98 on Boxing Day 2010. It is up to the players to somehow justify their spots. I know politics are played in regards to someone like Brad Hodge, but most of those players on Boxing Day have played in many winning Tests matches and series.

 

[the_interloper]

OP is correct for the most part.

However, not all past greats are like that.

Take Bill Lawry for example, a great who likes to see new players come through and succeed. He also likes to see new/aggressive tactics come off and generally puts a positive spin on the game of cricket.

The man is a legend

Probably the thing I love most about Bill, especially given his stodgy reputation as an opening bat, he loves blokes like Warner.

He is the exact opposite of a silly old prick like Neil Harvey, who (great as he was) doesn't ever acknowledge the ability of today's players. He was asked about our Test side in 2000 and how it compared to the 1948 side and the "1948 side was twice as good" apparently. Dickhead!