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Croatian Heritige

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Now you too can sing along to the tragic strains of Gorka Rijeka


Još teèe mojim venama
Ta gorka rijeka naših dana
Još više bole tvoji poljupci
Što kao rane žive uvijek u meni.

Prošla je duga godina dana
Od kad si draga ostala sama
Proæi æe dušo još mnogo više
Dok nam se ljubav ne izbriše.

Još teèe mojim venama
Ta gorka rijeka naših dana
Još više bole tvoji poljupci
Što kao rane žive uvijek u meni.

Tamo na pijesku tragovi stoje
U duši èujem krik galeba
Tamo nas zovu valovi plavi
I duga zlatna obala

Još teèe mojim venama
Ta gorka rijeka naših dana
Još više bole tvoji poljupci
Što kao rane žive uvijek u meni.
 
Originally posted by back pocket
Now you too can sing along to the tragic strains of Gorka Rijeka


Još teèe mojim venama
Ta gorka rijeka naših dana
Još više bole tvoji poljupci
Što kao rane žive uvijek u meni.

Prošla je duga godina dana
Od kad si draga ostala sama
Proæi æe dušo još mnogo više
Dok nam se ljubav ne izbriše.

Još teèe mojim venama
Ta gorka rijeka naših dana
Još više bole tvoji poljupci
Što kao rane žive uvijek u meni.

Tamo na pijesku tragovi stoje
U duši èujem krik galeba
Tamo nas zovu valovi plavi
I duga zlatna obala

Još teèe mojim venama
Ta gorka rijeka naših dana
Još više bole tvoji poljupci
Što kao rane žive uvijek u meni.
Click to expand...

Interesting!
 

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Even in my vains
That bitter river of our days
Even more do your kisses hurt
And my wounds will always be

It has been over a year
From when you were left alone
It will be dear many more
Until are love is gone

Even in my vains
That bitter river of our days
Even more do your kisses hurt
And my wounds will always be

Footoprints remain in the sand
In my soul I hear seaguls sing
Blue waves are calling us
As does a long golden beach

Even in my vains
That bitter river of our days
Even more do your kisses hurt
And my wounds will always be


I have an assignment due tomorrow so I thought I would show off and interpret the poem as a way of relaxing...

I must say that it does not sound as good in English as it does in Croatian...lol
 
pardon my anglo-celtic intervention but I was curious about some of the cultural aspects of ex Balkans as they relate to sport.

Why is it that those of Slavic background (if that offends I apologise - I'm not familiar with the correct protocols) can make such a fantastic contribution to AFL and all seem to get along yet the ethnic rivalries seem to rise to the surface in soccer?

Is it because its more concentrated in soccer and clubs, particularly eastern states clubs, are built along ethnic lines?

I'm keen to understand.
 
Originally posted by Exeter
pardon my anglo-celtic intervention but I was curious about some of the cultural aspects of ex Balkans as they relate to sport.

Why is it that those of Slavic background (if that offends I apologise - I'm not familiar with the correct protocols) can make such a fantastic contribution to AFL and all seem to get along yet the ethnic rivalries seem to rise to the surface in soccer?

Is it because its more concentrated in soccer and clubs, particularly eastern states clubs, are built along ethnic lines?

I'm keen to understand.
Click to expand...

Exter that is a very good question and my personal opinion is that this is all perception. Let me try and explain:

1. Soccer has traditionally been seen as an ethnic game and supporters were usually from Greece, Croatia, Serbia, Macedonia, Italy etc...
2. Because of a majority of ethnic mix when trouble did start it is often assumed that its because of ethnic origin. My personal belief that it is just people being hot headed, however the general public sees it as wogs having a go at each other.
3. I am not saying that there is no ethinic disputes mind you however I do not think that they are as prevelant as people make them out to be.

I remember going to Victoria Park to watch Collingwood play WCE in the early 90 where there was a a huge brawl between WCE and Collingwood supporters and number of people were seriously hurt. Now this was potrayed within the media as some d ickeads being stupid and no reacial impliations were made within the media.

In my opinon when trouble in soccer is stirred its more often then not d ickheads being d ickheads rather then any organised ethnic violence taking place.
 
Thanks for that No. 1

Last year, I think, there was a game between Perth Glory and Melbourne Knights (?) in Melbourne (a Croation club ?)that turned very nasty and a number of the fans were after Bobby Despotovski from the Glory because of an apparent Serbian salute that he gave the crowd.

It was an inflammatory gesture that seemd to set the crowd off and it threatened to get very ugly.

I take your point about perception but there seemed to be more to it in that instance than a media beat up (maybe).

Mind you, maybe soccer violence is just endemic to that game and it aint just ethnic - the Poms wrote the book on it and they all come from the same tribe - apparently. Interesting how you don't get crowd violence to speak of in AFL or rugby - maybe its got something to do with the violence happening on the field.
 
Originally posted by Exeter
Last year, I think, there was a game between Perth Glory and Melbourne Knights (?) in Melbourne (a Croation club ?)that turned very nasty and a number of the fans were after Bobby Despotovski from the Glory because of an apparent Serbian salute that he gave the crowd.
Click to expand...

That all goes back to religion afaik. You see, Serbian people are orthodox. Croatians are catholics. The 'three finger salute' refers to a gesture made by Serbian people, similar to crossing yourself if your a catholic. In WW2 many Serbian soldiers cut off the end two fingers of their Croatian prisoners as a way to mock them.

Now before you all jump down my throat, I do realize that Croatian soldiers have been known to do some awfull things too. I am in no way saying that Serbs are bastards and Croats are angels!
 

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Originally posted by Exeter
Thanks for that No. 1

I take your point about perception but there seemed to be more to it in that instance than a media beat up (maybe).
Click to expand...


I agree...

Remember the incident well and I did watch it with interest. From my view point though I see the action from Bobby Despotovski designed to inflame adverse reaction from the crowd and he succeeded. At that time the focus was on ethnic actions rather then on irrisponsible player behavior and some d ickeads in the crowd.

Comparing thisto and incident at Optus oval a few years ago where Steve Silvagni was crudely taken out by a Geelong player. The player then continued to incite the crowd to a point where a section of that crowd was getting violent and the atmosphere becoming dangerous. There the media focused on stupidity of a player and the stupidity of the crowd, because other, ie ethnic angles were not available.
 
Considering that soccer match was played in front of a predominately Croatian crowd, Despotovski's action was stupid and blatantly disrespectful. To many who saw him, he was delivering the fascist Serbian Army 3 finger salute, and to others, he was showing pride in his religion and heritage and nothing more.

It's this division in beliefs and morals which has pitted neighbour against neighbour and brother against brother in a country which has simmered on the brink of civil war for decades, going back to Hitler's regime, and ultimatley was torn apart in the worst possible way.

What did I see in his actions?

Funny you should ask, because I saw a coward, protected in the realm of sport, who hasn't the courage to stand amongst those he was mocking and impose his beliefs, but who willingly gesticulates from the safety of the sporting arena.

There was a reason for dropping the ethnicity from the nomenclature of the teams, and Despotovski's discriminatory gesture did not help what the soccer league is striving for.

I might add that Croatian Gals are sensational, and so is their music.
 
Originally posted by back pocket
Considering that soccer match was played in front of a predominately Croatian crowd, Despotovski's action was stupid and blatantly disrespectful. To many who saw him, he was delivering the fascist Serbian Army 3 finger salute, and to others, he was showing pride in his religion and heritage and nothing more.

It's this division in beliefs and morals which has pitted neighbour against neighbour and brother against brother in a country which has simmered on the brink of civil war for decades, going back to Hitler's regime, and ultimatley was torn apart in the worst possible way.

What did I see in his actions?

Funny you should ask, because I saw a coward, protected in the realm of sport, who hasn't the courage to stand amongst those he was mocking and impose his beliefs, but who willingly gesticulates from the safety of the sporting arena.

There was a reason for dropping the ethnicity from the nomenclature of the teams, and Despotovski's discriminatory gesture did not help what the soccer league is striving for.

I might add that Croatian Gals are sensational, and so is their music.
Click to expand...

Totally agree! Brilliant post BackPocket!
 
Originally posted by carlyp
Now before you all jump down my throat, I do realize that Croatian soldiers have been known to do some awfull things too. I am in no way saying that Serbs are bastards and Croats are angels!
Click to expand...
I'm glad you said that carly as it is well known the ustasa and chetniks are as bad as each other.
 
Originally posted by dasler
I'm glad you said that carly as it is well known the ustasa and chetniks are as bad as each other.
Click to expand...

Absolutely...

I am personally ashamed of behaviour of ustasa during second world war.
 

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Originally posted by no1bankteller
Absolutely...

I am personally ashamed of behaviour of ustasa during second world war.
Click to expand...

I tend to believe that the idea behind Ustasa was good, freedom for all Croats BUT (and this is a big but) the way they went about achieving freedom was disgusting.
 
Originally posted by carlyp
I tend to believe that the idea behind Ustasa was good, freedom for all Croats BUT (and this is a big but) the way they went about achieving freedom was disgusting.
Click to expand...
I think the worst things about the Ustasa and the Chetniks is they believed they were FREEDOM FIGHTERS. Far from the truth as they slaughtered many innocents.

Your real betrayals lied with the politicians who abused the powers they had, otherwise you would have been fine.
 
Originally posted by dasler
I think the worst things about the Ustasa and the Chetniks is they believed they were FREEDOM FIGHTERS. Far from the truth as they slaughtered many innocents.

Your real betrayals lied with the politicians who abused the powers they had, otherwise you would have been fine.
Click to expand...

Thats probably a fair comment Dasler. However I do like to think of Freedom Fighters in the romantic portrayal that can be attached to them.
I agree with you on the politicians, it is afaik documented that many politicians used the 'freedom' argument to get thousands of men to join their groups and fight for them. Tudjman did it, Milosevic did it, Tito did it, Pavelic did it.
 
Originally posted by back pocket
Now you too can sing along to the tragic strains of Gorka Rijeka


Još teèe mojim venama
Ta gorka rijeka naših dana
Još više bole tvoji poljupci
Što kao rane žive uvijek u meni.

Prošla je duga godina dana
Od kad si draga ostala sama
Proæi æe dušo još mnogo više
Dok nam se ljubav ne izbriše.

Još teèe mojim venama
Ta gorka rijeka naših dana
Još više bole tvoji poljupci
Što kao rane žive uvijek u meni.

Tamo na pijesku tragovi stoje
U duši èujem krik galeba
Tamo nas zovu valovi plavi
I duga zlatna obala

Još teèe mojim venama
Ta gorka rijeka naših dana
Još više bole tvoji poljupci
Što kao rane žive uvijek u meni.
Click to expand...

I'm not a croat, or a serb, or a maco, or any of the former Yugoslav states, but I understand about 90% of that. And thats BEFORE i looked at no1's translation ;)

Interesting reading this thread. I had no idea there were so many 'wogs' on here. I got the feeling it was predominantly anglo-saxon Australians.
 
Originally posted by dasler
The differences being Tito did it for unifaction where the other two bastards did it to separate.
Click to expand...

Yep. two things:

1/ was unification such a good thing?

2/ surely you cant say that Tudjman and the other Croats didnt have a right to self determination if thats what they wanted. The Croatian people obviously wanted freedom from Yugoslavia or they wouldnt have voted for/given power to Tudjman in the first place. Tudjman was a known hardliner, a nationalist.
 

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