Cummins Overrated?

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The Passenger

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I stole this from reddit but this goes to show just how unbelievable he has been

Since his return in 2017 he's averaged:

30 with 8 wickets in India

29 with 6 wickets in Bangladesh

24 with 23 wickets against England

21 with 22 wickets in South Africa

27 with 22 wickets against India

7 with 22 wickets against Sri Lanka (not a typo)

14 with 16 wickets in England.

Those averages are insane.
He is a fantastic bowler no doubt about that. Him and Rabada are quite comfortably the two best bowlers in the world right now in test cricket.

I'm just not sure I have him pegged as the fifth highest rated bowler of all time above the likes of Malcolm Marshall, Curtley Ambrose, Dale Steyn, Waqar Younis, Shane Warne Alan Donald et al. And that's before we even think of the old timers whom I've only seen in old tapes - Alan Davidson, Alec Bedser, Fred Trueman, Ray Lindwall for instance.

Looking deeper into the rankings, any system that has Dennis Lillee ranked number 40, more or less on par with Stuart Broad and Steven Harmison, needs a genuine reassessment.

EDIT: The highest ever ratings have Wasim Akram number 74, a mere 7 spots about Peter Siddle. Lettuce be reality please.
 

The Passenger

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FWIW, I've generally thought when comparing players at the same point in time the rankings seem pretty solid. Looking at the ratings now and can't complain too much. Nicholls for NZ has had a good start to his career but seems a bit high at #5, but that's about the only thing that stands out for me.

But comparing across eras is definitely a bit eskew. I've shown some anomalies in the bowling above, and looking at the batting:
Root at #22 above Lara (#28) and Tendulkar (#33 :drunk: )? No thanks.
Even Kohli and Ab de Villiers (as great as they are) feel a tad too high for mine, both just outside the top ten. Hussey in the same boat at #20 is a bit high.
Peter May at #6? I thought he must have gone a heater for a year or so back in 1956 but his highest score in the 24 months prior to his high ranking was 117.
Herb Sutcliffe (one of only a handful of guys to average over 60) on par with Gautam Gambhir?
Gambhir wouldn't even be the top 100 batsmen of all time, let alone #39, above Greg Chappell (#44) and Allan Border (#49).
 

Sanguinarius

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i suppose the fact that a "deserved"player MISSED"out on that contract for 6yrs ($5 m)
I'd lean more to the idea that they rate and injured Cummins over the fit 20th/21st/22nd player.

If that meant that Cummins was able to focus on recovery and rehab rather than going and looking for a 9-5 job, I'm not complaining
 

Buzzasto DaSilva

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CUMMINS the only player ever , to remain ON A FULL CONTRACT ( 6 yrs ) whilst he was injured
as usual special treatment for any NSW player
Rubbish. Stop lying.

Cummins played multiple short-form games for Australia during that period, including the 2015 World Cup. Sure, he was injured quite a lot, but it's not like he was doing nothing. When he was fit, he played. And for the record, if was just over five years of missed Test Cricket. Not ideal, but less than six and he definitely played short-form cricket.

As for your quote about $800,000 per year, got any source to back that up?
 

iluvparis

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This bloke was one of Brades whipping boys right? Yet more proof there is no-one else in the history of big footy that has been more wrong more often
 

Buzzasto DaSilva

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This bloke was one of Brades whipping boys right? Yet more proof there is no-one else in the history of big footy that has been more wrong more often
Brades cops a lot. He was wrong on Cummins but he's actually a lot more switched on than a lot of people give him credit for. I enjoy his posts, he does get quite a bit right, often against the grain.
 

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Blue1980

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Brades cops a lot. He was wrong on Cummins but he's actually a lot more switched on than a lot of people give him credit for. I enjoy his posts, he does get quite a bit right, often against the grain.
He just holds grudges, doubles down on any initial opinion and generally seems more interested in being proven correct than seeing Australia succeed
 

Pykie

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What a performance from these two, they shouldn't get lost in the Smith adulation.

They haven't exactly got a spate of greentops either.

743095



Harris was good in 2011, but these are the best Ashes series performance from any bowler, either English or Australian in England, since Warne & McGrath in 2001.
 
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iluvparis

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Brades cops a lot. He was wrong on Cummins but he's actually a lot more switched on than a lot of people give him credit for. I enjoy his posts, he does get quite a bit right, often against the grain.
Disagree - he has been consistently wrong across almost every topic I have ever seen him post on on any board.

And if you are contrarian on everything you will of course get 1 or 2 things right just due to random variance.
 
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eth-dog

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Brades cops a lot. He was wrong on Cummins but he's actually a lot more switched on than a lot of people give him credit for. I enjoy his posts, he does get quite a bit right, often against the grain.
No, he really doesn't. Once you're in Brades' bad books you're there for life. He's comfortably the worst poster on this board, and this board has LPno1 post regularly.
 

Snuffaluphagus

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Brades cops a lot. He was wrong on Cummins but he's actually a lot more switched on than a lot of people give him credit for. I enjoy his posts, he does get quite a bit right, often against the grain.
To jump on this, he also thinks Tim Kelly is worth no more than a 2nd round pick and Brad Hill is a s**t kick. Dude just likes being different for the sake of it
 

eth-dog

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To jump on this, he also thinks Tim Kelly is worth no more than a 2nd round pick and Brad Hill is a s**t kick. Dude just likes being different for the sake of it
Brad Hill's kicking is severely overrated. The amount of times he misses relatively easy targets for a supposed good kick is remarkable. Very good player, overrated kick.
 

Snuffaluphagus

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Brad Hill's kicking is severely overrated. The amount of times he misses relatively easy targets for a supposed good kick is remarkable. Very good player, overrated kick.
And yet has one of the best inside50 kicking rates in the league, while in a forwardline set up as bad as ours. Can’t be that bad (he does miss some easy kicks though).

On topic, this bowling group as a whole has the potential to go down as GOAT. Won’t have the top end of McGrath/Warne but is deeper and more varied. It’s these guys and Smith that are the reason we are any chance at the test champ trophy
 

Kram

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No, he really doesn't. Once you're in Brades' bad books you're there for life. He's comfortably the worst poster on this board, and this board has LPno1 post regularly.
They don't bother me at all because they are ok guys and are generally just good for a laugh.

The worst are the ones that take themselves really seriously and still hold rubbish biased opinions, and should 100% know better.
 

Bradesmaen

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No, he really doesn't. Once you're in Brades' bad books you're there for life. He's comfortably the worst poster on this board, and this board has LPno1 post regularly.
Right about Starc, right about Smith, right about Haze, right about Warner, right about Wade, right about Lyon.. wrong about Cummins. Can't always be right. I just hang s**t for fun and you get sucked into it pretty bad. Also because the Australian team is full of deadset *******s who are as unlikeable as they are bad at batting.
 
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I still think he's overrated from what he currently is now and doesn't do enough with the ball apart from bang it in, but he's been better than I thought he'd be.
He's certainly a bang-it-in bowler, but he's very good at it and when you have three fast bowlers you need one who can do that. Hazlewood and Pattinson complement him well.
 

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