D4 D4 2017

[table tennis]

We don't want any easy games or premierships handed out just an even playing field will do. All i'm saying is if drop out for whatever reason play in the same division you were in previously and if relegated so be it.
D4 is the hardest division to get out of without doubt so lets not give sides that rort the system or go up and find it too tough an easy out. Is this asking asking too much ?

So tell me again how a club promoted from clubbies two grades is fair on anyone?

Pretty sure you have to earn the right to be out of the bottom division and it isn't easy.

Its a reward to be promoted and SFX have not yet earned that right for promotion over any other club.

D4 is the correct position and only logical place to put them

 

[Archangel17]

We don't want any easy games or premierships handed out just an even playing field will do. All i'm saying is if drop out for whatever reason play in the same division you were in previously and if relegated so be it.
D4 is the hardest division to get out of without doubt so lets not give sides that rort the system or go up and find it too tough an easy out. Is this asking asking too much ?

What a load of crap. How is dropping out of D3 to clubbies rorting the system? If you think any club would do this just to win a flag in a lower grade, you are totally bonkers. I've seen clubs play 60 yr olds, just to field a two's side and I am sure SFX did everything possible to stay viable. There is als no logic in them returning to D3. Would you have byes in both grades or tell Point cook- "look sorry, we can't promote you because SFX want their spot back?
Also, of course D4 is the hardest division to get out of. There is only promotion, no relegation. The only way is up.

 

[number 75]

What a load of crap. How is dropping out of D3 to clubbies rorting the system? If you think any club would do this just to win a flag in a lower grade, you are totally bonkers. I've seen clubs play 60 yr olds, just to field a two's side and I am sure SFX did everything possible to stay viable. There is als no logic in them returning to D3. Would you have byes in both grades or tell Point cook- "look sorry, we can't promote you because SFX want their spot back?
Also, of course D4 is the hardest division to get out of. There is only promotion, no relegation. The only way is up.

Read my post again. Hawthorn rorted the system where as St Francis found the going too hard.
I would be happy with only one team relegated from D3, I didn't mention anything about Point Cook staying down.
Table tennis they were in D3 already, lost players went to club 18 won a flag there and now should go back to the grade where they last played, and if relegated this season so be it. They were already strong enough to be in D3, maybe if you were still down in D4 you might thing differently ?.

 

[Norfolk & Clew]

Read my post again. Hawthorn rorted the system where as St Francis found the going too hard.
I would be happy with only one team relegated from D3, I didn't mention anything about Point Cook staying down.
Table tennis they were in D3 already, lost players went to club 18 won a flag there and now should go back to the grade where they last played, and if relegated this season so be it. They were already strong enough to be in D3, maybe if you were still down in D4 you might thing differently ?.

If I was in D4 I'd welcome the challenge. We obviously have different opinions but hopefully your club are tracking well for a big 2017 and will give SFX a hiding.
I don't think the VAFA have any alternative, they have to come in via D4.

 

[number 75]

We do look forward to the challenge and as I've said previosly don't want any easy handout's.
It's good discussion and I respect your point of view but we will beg to differ.

 

[table tennis]

Read my post again. Hawthorn rorted the system where as St Francis found the going too hard.
I would be happy with only one team relegated from D3, I didn't mention anything about Point Cook staying down.
Table tennis they were in D3 already, lost players went to club 18 won a flag there and now should go back to the grade where they last played, and if relegated this season so be it. They were already strong enough to be in D3, maybe if you were still down in D4 you might thing differently ?.

You answered your own question. They lost players..

Edit: Dig removed - OTP

 

[Mounzer11]

Read my post again. Hawthorn rorted the system where as St Francis found the going too hard.
I would be happy with only one team relegated from D3, I didn't mention anything about Point Cook staying down.
Table tennis they were in D3 already, lost players went to club 18 won a flag there and now should go back to the grade where they last played, and if relegated this season so be it. They were already strong enough to be in D3, maybe if you were still down in D4 you might thing differently ?.

Re: Hawthorn....since when is getting demoted by the VAFA rorting the system. Do you know anyone at Hawthorn?? Do you know how gutted they were to be demoted??

Edit: Dig removed - OTP

 

[number 75]

Re: Hawthorn....since when is getting demoted by the VAFA rorting the system. Do you know anyone at Hawthorn?? Do you know how gutted they were to be demoted??

Maybe you need to do some research mate, why were they relegated when they didn't finish bottom 2 ??.

Edit: Removed deleted quote - OTP

 

[table tennis]

Maybe you need to do some research mate, why were they relegated when they didn't finish bottom 2 ??.

Yeah they finished 3rd last.

They got caught doing the wrong thing and didnt win a div 4 flag.

It made Westbourne endure another year of div 3, and guess what... Westbourne eventually came down and won a flag.

So the so called rorters havent exactly prospered. They might be out of the division but i can tell you its little consolation going up a bridesmaid.

Maybe some credit to Hawthorn for not capitulating and getting upto div 2. Without a flag.

 

[Brad Goodman]

Maybe you need to do some research mate, why were they relegated when they didn't finish bottom 2 ??.

Rorting the system implies they broke the rules so that they would get caught and go down to D4 for some easy wins. Even you wouldn't believe that.

 

[number 75]

Rorting the system implies they broke the rules so that they would get caught and go down to D4 for some easy wins. Even you wouldn't believe that.

I don't know how you have come to that conclusion !, they broke the rules and got caught,
I would not have relegated them but docked points for the following season.

 

[HowBoutThemDoggies]

From a D3 perspective and reading all this back and forth I still cant see a logical argument for why you would put SFX back into D3 after 2 seasons out?

 

[Mounzer11]

I don't know how you have come to that conclusion !, they broke the rules and got caught,
I would not have relegated them but docked points for the following season.

Are you saying that Hawthorn had a choice and they chose to be demoted (not relegated) to D4?? Demotion was forced upon them, they fought to stay up but lost the fight with HQ.

I am not sure how much experience you have had at VAFA football clubs but I don't think I have met a person involved in a club who would choose to play in a lower grade. SFX needed to go to the Clubbies for survival, not to win a flag mate.

Edit: Removed dig - OTP

 

[Ruck Machine]

I'm really looking forward to playing my old mates from SFX. Wouldn't want it any other way!

 

[table tennis]

In hindsight I am probably too harsh on SFX but I stand by what i've said about Hawthorn.

So other than languishing in div 4 for two years, what was the benefit to Hawthorn?

Edit: Removed deleted quote - OTP

 

[number 75]

So other than languishing in div 4 for two years, what was the benefit to Hawthorn?

The benefit was they got to play against inferior opponents and had the oppotunity to win a flag and go straight back up even after cheating.
The fact that they didn't finish botton 2, I think a fairer outcome would have been to stay in D3 and dock them say 12 points.

 

[HowBoutThemDoggies]

Can someone fill me in on whatever it was Hawthorn actually did? it predates my time in the VAFA

 

[Norfolk & Clew]

Can someone fill me in on whatever it was Hawthorn actually did? it predates my time in the VAFA

Played a bloke in the 2's under another blokes name. He was then silly enough to get reported and the club was found out.

 

[table tennis]

The benefit was they got to play against inferior opponents and had the oppotunity to win a flag and go straight back up even after cheating.
The fact that they didn't finish botton 2, I think a fairer outcome would have been to stay in D3 and dock them say 12 points.

They finished bottom 3 though. it wasn't like they were dominant in that grade.
They never won a flag. in fact they had one of the biggest choking performances which probably showed they were in the right grade at the right time.

The Fairest outcome on the whole VAFA is if you cheat or play players under bodgies that the punishment is severe and you lose the right to play in the grade you are in.

The clubs in the division below get a huge opportunity to play against a club from the division above an know the standard they need to get to.

like I said, not one year Hawthorn were in Div 4 were they the best side - they won Zero premierships - Northern Blues and West Brunswick did.

 

[number 75]

They finished bottom 3 though. it wasn't like they were dominant in that grade.
They never won a flag. in fact they had one of the biggest choking performances which probably showed they were in the right grade at the right time.

The Fairest outcome on the whole VAFA is if you cheat or play players under bodgies that the punishment is severe and you lose the right to play in the grade you are in.

The clubs in the division below get a huge opportunity to play against a club from the division above an know the standard they need to get to.

like I said, not one year Hawthorn were in Div 4 were they the best side - they won Zero premierships - Northern Blues and West Brunswick did.

It's not about how many premierships they won but the fact that they got to play in a division which gave them the oppotunity to be more successful than they would have been.
Anyway we agree to disagree, maybe demoting them and docking points would have been more appropriate ?.

 

[Over The Post]

If you want unwarranted success, try Parkside in the WRFL. Div 2 Premiers in 2014, waah waah Div 1 is too hard and our guys are leaving in droves, we don't have the money to buy players, put us down to Div 3 so we can rebuild... oh look most of our top guys have miraculously returned, let us sweep all before us.

(That was a simplified version, but it still raises hackles amongst most of the WRFL guys)

 

[table tennis]

If you want unwarranted success, try Parkside in the WRFL. Div 2 Premiers in 2014, waah waah Div 1 is too hard and our guys are leaving in droves, we don't have the money to buy players, put us down to Div 3 so we can rebuild... oh look most of our top guys have miraculously returned, let us sweep all before us.

(That was a simplified version, but it still raises hackles amongst most of the WRFL guys)

Really one of the more baffling decisions by an unorganized organization.

They can never wonder why we have chosen and continue to choose the ammos

 

[Mounzer11]

Played a bloke in the 2's under another blokes name. He was then silly enough to get reported and the club was found out.

That would have got them a slap on the wrist, it had more to do with they signed false statutory declarations trying to cover it up.

 

[schmuttt]

HAs anyone seen MC train yet? What are numbers like?

Not great afaik

 

[ramjets]

It's not about how many premierships they won but the fact that they got to play in a division which gave them the oppotunity to be more successful than they would have been.
Anyway we agree to disagree, maybe demoting them and docking points would have been more appropriate ?.

Wow like the argument however if I may have an opinion since we have gone up and suddenly we cant have one. 75 and TT both your arguments have merit one that the answer will affect another party either way. Having been the coach of the team that finished last in Div 3 the year Hawthorn got relagated and having to stay up after only winning two games and ligitimately finishing last. Then being flogged all year and loosing every game. I say Hawthorn shouldnt have been relagated as the long term affect on a club like ours was almost catastrophic. In the hast to punish Hawthorn other clubs got caught in the crossfire. Loss of points was the way to go. Flip side was the experience and I guess the genuine want to help from past players based on us hitting rock bottom helped our club develop a resolve not to be in that position again.

Enough now about Hawthorn it doesnt matter and only time will tell about SFX . Merry Xmas to all our opponents from 2016 wish you guys all the best for 2017 would be rapt to see Massala play finals and Nth Brunny win a flag. Also Box Hill to be up and about again. No doubt us and Point Cook dodged a tough year in div 4 next season with SFX in and 3 down the winner would have truly earned it these things have a way of levelling out.

Made some good friends and had developed respect for alot of really good blokes in my time in Div4 hope to see you guys going around again soon.

DIV 4 Thread good Bye.