List Mgmt. Daniher Contract - illegal?

[legend166]

Easy, no compensation for FA or RFA. Use the cap space to sign someone else.

Well yes, that's the easiest option.

 

[Rabish Binney]

Yep the world is against Adelaide and their board and coaching staff is faultless

Never said that at all.

Just curious about what could be a story being blown out of proportion by Caro & McClure.

 

[Rabish Binney]

It seems pretty simple to me, and in reality was bound to happen eventually. With compo the way it is, being a non-zero sum game, there was always going to be a point where the two clubs involved in a FA transaction would exploit the situation to the detriment of 16 other clubs.

Even assuming this is what happened here, there's probably a lack of evidence and enough plausible deniability for any possible collusion to go through unpunished.

Get better rules, Gil, and this won't happen.

A club manipulates a players contract.

Shocked to be sitting here.

 

[citizen-erased]

Basing compensation on the new salary/contract offered was always going to end up with something like this.

Honestly better to come up with some sort of algorithm completely out of control from either team, like selections in the AA team/squad, Brownlow votes, heck even fantasy points. None of it's perfect, but at least it's not controlled by the clubs.

BnF results?
more than 1 top 10 in last 3 years = top tier
1 top 10 in last 3 years = mid tier
no BnF in last years, but 1+ in last 5 years = low tier
no BnF = no comp.

discount if player is injured for more than 60% of the season

would tie it to value to the club that is losing the player.

 

[Tippett2Goal]

Easy, no compensation for FA or RFA. Use the cap space to sign someone else.

Agree it should go this way, or the AFL generate a "points value" for the player and the gaining club loses those points from their picks.

 

[juss]

true. i think the current system delicately balances it so that teams benefit

Classic example - Hawks take Frawley, Dees get to sign Brayshaw along with Petracca and win a flag 8 years later.
they don't get the pick, they're left with trying to attract talent to a bottom club whilst paying a salary floor.

I don't mind the current system. I do wonder if there's a case to compensate the rest of the league...i.e Essendon get pick 8 for Daniher...should Brisbane lose pick 17 to balance it out?

Free agency really is driven by players for player freedom and movement. It helps them get to where they want to get to.

Compensation really isn't a thing, it causes more problems then it solves. E.g. every other club not involved in a FA transaction is somehow negatively effected by getting bumped down the draft order.

 

[iameviljez]

If this was the crows, it would be an automatic draft pick sanction.

While I agree that this is the case, it comes across as a bit salty given that Adelaide literally has form on dodgy contract behaviour (though it's a decade ago now, of course, and was largely overblown).

 

[iameviljez]

The problem is the compo pick. It creates a reward that encourages contract manipulation, which then results in draft manipulation.

And tying the compo pick to the club's finishing position makes for a double whammy.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Easy, no compensation for FA or RFA. Use the cap space to sign someone else.

Need to remove or significantly lower the cap floor before this is implemented.

 

[1990crow]

While I agree that this is the case, it comes across as a bit salty given that Adelaide literally has form on dodgy contract behaviour (though it's a decade ago now, of course, and was largely overblown).

Not condoning what the crows did ten years ago. The punishment was excessive however when you compare what the bombers got for drug cheating.

Then letting them get pick one for having drug cheats rubbed out for a season. Negated any penalty.

Point Stands. This was draft manipulation that somehow got approved because a big Victorian team was involved.

 

[The 747]

Need to remove or significantly lower the cap floor before this is implemented.

That is true, so it won't happen, so we are stuck with the dud system we have now.

 

[Shooter#17]

Why on earth should the Bombers be sanctioned? If there's any wrong doing its on Brisbane - Essendon would have just said if the contract offer is this we'll match it, Brisbane up their offer based on that.

Because it was clearly instigated by the bombers as they're the only ones to gain from it. Little doubt a gentlemen's agreement was arranged.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

true. i think the current system delicately balances it so that teams benefit

Classic example - Hawks take Frawley, Dees get to sign Brayshaw along with Petracca and win a flag 8 years later.
they don't get the pick, they're left with trying to attract talent to a bottom club whilst paying a salary floor.

I don't mind the current system. I do wonder if there's a case to compensate the rest of the league...i.e Essendon get pick 8 for Daniher...should Brisbane lose pick 17 to balance it out?

It's pretty hard to get 100% right.
I think the current system will be alright (good enough) as long as clubs know that the deals (and subsequent deals/extensions) will be under tighter scrutiny to normal deals, given that it has the potential to affect more than just the two clubs involved once everyone shuffles down the order.
There shouldn't be any communication between the two clubs prior to the RFA receiving their offer from the new suitor. Using this specific example, the Lions have to make their best offer to Joe for the terms that Joe and the Lions are both comfortable with and hope that the compo is enough to satisfy Essendon.
Essendon then get to see Joe's offer from Brisbane and the compo from the AFL AFTER everything is locked in place. It's then up to them if they want to match and force a trade (which could potentially mean he stays if a trade can't be agreed on), or they accept the compo.
Brisbane doesn't know how much compo they're triggering and just need to worry about satisfying Joe. Essendon don't know how much they're matching or what compo they're getting until contracts are agreed in principal.
It's hard to police the no contact between clubs, but if they know the deals will be looked at closely and any secondary deals really put under the microscope, then they won't want to risk penalties.

 

[Bianconeri]

If this was announced at the end of the three year deal no one would bat an eyelid.

 

[legend166]

BnF results?
more than 1 top 10 in last 3 years = top tier
1 top 10 in last 3 years = mid tier
no BnF in last years, but 1+ in last 5 years = low tier
no BnF = no comp.

discount if player is injured for more than 60% of the season

would tie it to value to the club that is losing the player.

I feel like that's the worst possible solution though, because if a club knows a player is out the door you just give him extra votes and bump him up the BnF rankings to get yourself a better pick.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Free agency really is driven by players for player freedom and movement. It helps them get to where they want to get to.

Compensation really isn't a thing, it causes more problems then it solves. E.g. every other club not involved in a FA transaction is somehow negatively effected by getting bumped down the draft order.

And tying the compo pick to the club's finishing position makes for a double whammy.

I'm waiting for the day that there's a large number of highly valued players changing clubs, with lots of top tier compo picks flying around.
You'll see a club with picks 17/18 in the draft end up taking their picks in the mid/late 20's (or later) after all compo picks are handed out. It will look farcical.

 

[Schauermann]

I think this sounds very ok. Even the 3 year deal was a little risky after he played only 15 games in the 3 years before. Now that he got over the injury concerns a contract expension is pretty reasonable as well. Probably should/could have waited until later in the season.

Btw in a trade contract length doesn't matter as well.

 

[citizen-erased]

I feel like that's the worst possible solution though, because if a club knows a player is out the door you just give him extra votes and bump him up the BnF rankings to get yourself a better pick.

That's a fair point.

 

[citizen-erased]

Free agency really is driven by players for player freedom and movement. It helps them get to where they want to get to.

Compensation really isn't a thing, it causes more problems then it solves. E.g. every other club not involved in a FA transaction is somehow negatively effected by getting bumped down the draft order.

yeah. thats a tough nut to crack without dispensing compensation
If you're going to have no comp, then i think FA needs to kick in at the end of any contract. 2nd year player, 16 year player - doesn't matter
That way clubs can use their salary space to effect.

And trade period is purely for contracted players.

I'd be happy for the AFL to get to this level of maturity.
Example might be Dogs put an offer to Sicily. He accepts. Hawks get no comp pick, but have $$ to chase McGrath from Essendon. Essendon get nothing for McGrath if he leaves. But go shopping for Dunkley. But if they want Rowell, they have to try trade for him.

 

[bluebaggerjuls]

Should be stripped of their first rounder - which is what they would have had to give up for Daniher

 

[Taylor]

I don't think there is a material impact here. The salary is locked into those three years.

 

[Tom14]

I don't think there is a material impact here. The salary is locked into those three years.

As far as I'm aware there is no Tippet-like secret agreement to get an off-salary cap payment in return for taking less $ on the books. In the absence of that, and if it doesn't amend the 3 years, then it shouldn't matter. The problem is with the FA compo system - I'd be fine with removing it altogether or starting compo picks at the end of the second round.

 

[Toump Ass]

Not condoning what the crows did ten years ago. The punishment was excessive however when you compare what the bombers got for drug cheating.

I'd totally forgotten about that.

Even better was when the Crows had an assistant coach suspended (Dean Bailey) because he deliberately lost games at the Dees, while the Dees were found not guilty of deliberately losing games and given a fine that the AFL paid for anyway along with a new coach in Paul Roos.

That was bloody hilarious.

 

[Taylor]

As far as I'm aware there is no Tippet-like secret agreement to get an off-salary cap payment in return for taking less $ on the books. In the absence of that, and if it doesn't amend the 3 years, then it shouldn't matter. The problem is with the FA compo system - I'd be fine with removing it altogether or starting compo picks at the end of the second round.

I don't have a problem with compensation when there is a minimum salary cap spend requirement.

The rules are there for anyone to use, the risk for Brisbane would be that Daniher leaves as an unrestricted free agent at the end of his three years but they trusted he would extend later. Whoop de do.

I see no issue with Essendon saying that if they don't get band one they will match, no issue with Brisbane giving the player more money per year over less years to make it happen.

 

[Taylor]

I'd totally forgotten about that.

Even better was when the Crows had an assistant coach suspended (Dean Bailey) because he deliberately lost games at the Dees, while the Dees were found not guilty of deliberately losing games and given a fine that the AFL paid for anyway along with a new coach in Paul Roos.

That was bloody hilarious.

I was going to make a joke that Adelaide gets suspended after the AFL finds Essendon, Brisbane and Daniher are found not guilty of anything.

But too soon.