Darren Berry

[corporal]

He is a great keeper and team man, but how long can Victoria afford to have a keeper in the team who cannot bat (other than the odd century against NSW). Considering the Vics have to play McDonald as a specialist bat because Berry bats at 8 we are at a big disadvantage compared to states with good wk/batsmans NSW (Haddin) , WA (Campbell), etc..
Its not even like he is like Seccombe who can hold up a end

Although some would say his glove work is match winning, I'd prefer a match winning Wk/Batsman aka Roach, This is especially important considering how frail the Vic's batting order is.

 

[pazza]

Nothing to worry about.

People place too much emphasis on wicket-keeping all-rounder and not just on pure wicket-keepers.

 

[corporal]

Originally posted by pazza
Nothing to worry about.

People place too much emphasis on wicket-keeping all-rounder and not just on pure wicket-keepers.

However you look at the Australian Test side, one of the big reasons they are so dominant is that they have a full batting side down to 7. Berry is a fantastic keeper, but what is going to win the Vics a shield, the odd leg side stumping or a 500+ run contribution from the keeper.

 

[rockdog]

Berry is a very good keeper, but he needs to do a bit more with the bat. How old is he these days?
His days may well be numbered.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

The Redbacks have a keeper who can't bat or keep, but they are doing okay.

 

[corporal]

Originally posted by Adelaide Hawk
The Redbacks have a keeper who can't bat or keep, but they are doing okay.

In fact they play two keepers who can't bat or keep!

 

[Portmagpies]

What Manou and SA wouldn't give for an average of 21 and the ability to score four centuries.

 

[corporal]

Originally posted by Portmagpies
What Manou and SA wouldn't give for an average of 21 and the ability to score four centuries.

True, I guess I shouldn't complain!

They should play Andy Flower's as a keeper

 

[Russian]

Originally posted by corporal
In fact they play two keepers who can't bat or keep!

I thought it was three - Manou, Deitz, Flower ???

 

[w00dy]

we can afford to have chuck in the side with the batting of cameron white at 7, we still have that depth... just because he isn't a wicketkeeper doesn't mean he can't bat there, and just because berry is a wicketkeepr doesn't mean he should bat there... the team is fine the way it is, won't be long before chuck hangs up the gloves and adam crosthwaite will be playing for the vics...

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Originally posted by Portmagpies
What Manou and SA wouldn't give for an average of 21 and the ability to score four centuries.

Exactly.

You select a keeper based upon his keeping, not his batting.

Obviously if he can bat, that's a massive advantage, but not cause for selection.

Chuck is still the best keeper in this state, and by a margin, thus he deserves his spot.

 

[corporal]

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Exactly.

You select a keeper based upon his keeping, not his batting.

Obviously if he can bat, that's a massive advantage, but not cause for selection.

Chuck is still the best keeper in this state, and by a margin, thus he deserves his spot.

Based on that then why wouldn't Berry be keeping for Australia?

I do really like Berry, However comparisons with Manou aside his batting is woeful. I think a good balance is required.

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Originally posted by corporal
Based on that then why wouldn't Berry be keeping for Australia?

Because the Aussie selectors chose a different path?

Up until last year, Berry was the best pure gloveman in the land, his keeping up to the stumps for the likes of Matthew Inness, showed that.

Just because the Aussie selectors chose to go with a batting keeper, does not mean Victoria must as well.

 

[Stevo]

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Because the Aussie selectors chose a different path?

Up until last year, Berry was the best pure gloveman in the land, his keeping up to the stumps for the likes of Matthew Inness, showed that.

Just because the Aussie selectors chose to go with a batting keeper, does not mean Victoria must as well.

But the effect Gilchrist has had on world cricket shows just how much of an advantage a wicketkeeper/batsman is.

 

[w00dy]

keeper/batsman must be looked at as all rounders... it all depends on team balance... victoria have a good balance in their side with all rounders like moss, mc donald and white that they can afford to have berry as a keeper even though his batting isn't as good as other keepers... he bats at 9 or 10 in the ING cup games sometimes... he's a very good player for no. 9...

and he is a gun keeper... his glovework has been 2nd to none... streets ahead of healy and gilchrist... it's a shame he never got a crack for australia ahead of blokes like emery or seccombe...

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Originally posted by Stevo
But the effect Gilchrist has had on world cricket shows just how much of an advantage a wicketkeeper/batsman is.

And Dravid shows just how much of a disadvantage a wicketkeeper/batsman is.

Works both ways.

 

[Darky]

Originally posted by Stevo
But the effect Gilchrist has had on world cricket shows just how much of an advantage a wicketkeeper/batsman is.

Exactly. You wouldn't make a decision based on a difference in batting averages of 4 or 5 runs, but 20+ runs and a consistent record of decent scores is a significant change.

It'd also mean a side can play an extra specialist bowler if it were so inclined, as the Australian team can do in Tests with 5 bowlers if required. You'd be reluctant to do that with 5 bats and Berry/Manou at 6!

Unfortunately for the Vics, most of the "bitser" all-rounders are more inclined to bowling than batting.

 

[Deemolition]

Bit late on this thread but I have a question for Corporal.

What do you like more, the one day stuff or the real stuff?

 

[Yabba]

cameron white is a pretty damn good bat for someone who is batting at 7 so if berry has to bat at 8 so white is 1 spot higher so be it. the only problem is when white will get a call up later this season whats going to happen then

 

[utility]

lol @ Dravid, good point. It all comes down to picking the best 11 to win the match, and I think he is in Victoria's best 11.

 

[corporal]

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
And Dravid shows just how much of a disadvantage a wicketkeeper/batsman is.

Works both ways.

Dravid is a batsman who has been thrown some gloves by the indian selectors so that they can play seven batsman, before the last game he kept in he said that he hadn't practiced keeping since the world cup, so I don't think he is a great example

 

[corporal]

Originally posted by Deemolition
Bit late on this thread but I have a question for Corporal.

What do you like more, the one day stuff or the real stuff?

g'day deemolition, I prefer test cricket (5 days of beer drinking as opposed to 1), although ultimately I'm a big fan of both

 

[Blue Boyz]

It doesn't matter how a good a bat you are if you can't keep
or take at least 90% of the chances that come your way. Most
district X1 keepers could take 80% plus of the chances that are
given in 1st class cricket. The difference between a good and great
keeper is the ability to turn the half chance into dismissal.


Sometimes you get lucky and get both skills like Knott and Marsh,
If at other times you compromise and play a batsman/keeper such
as Dujon, Stewart or Gilchrist, you have to accept that they won't
catch or stump as many batsmen as a Test keeper should.

As to who is the best keeper in Australia at the moment, IMHO
there is no argument, it's Berry despite his broken finger.

 

[Cupido13]

All us Victorians need to stop inflating the tyres of Cameron White until he actually makes some big scores to prove how good a batsman, and for that matter bowler, the Victorian public think he is.

 

[pazza]

Originally posted by Cupido13
All us Victorians need to stop inflating the tyres of Cameron White until he actually makes some big scores to prove how good a batsman, and for that matter bowler, the Victorian public think he is.

That's a bit difficult when you state coach has a media committment in David Hookes!!!