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Defenders

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Kenneth_

Kenneth_

Debutant
Suspended
Sep 21, 2006
125
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Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Lyon
Why is our defence so crap? I wont take experience as an excuse because you look at collingwoods defence and they are all so very young and rarely concede 100 points and they are winning much more games then us. It really annoys me to see that every week we finish off the game with an 100 points scored against us. Our disposal of the footy is shocking and our fitness is a worry aswell. Carlton has only got an attacking side to it and no defence. :confused: And do we have a defence coach??
 
Kenneth said:
Why is our defence so crap? I wont take experience as an excuse because you look at collingwoods defence and they are all so very young and rarely concede 100 points and they are winning much more games then us. It really annoys me to see that every week we finish off the game with an 100 points scored against us. Our disposal of the footy is shocking and our fitness is a worry aswell. Carlton has only got an attacking side to it and no defence. :confused: And do we have a defence coach??
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because our midfielders do not man up and our fwd's do not apply enough pressure in our FWD 50

thus allowing the opposition to rebound quickly and move the ball easily and unopossed into their FWD 50, giving our defender very little chance to beat their opponent

defence is not limited to the the 6 players name at FB, CHB, BP's, HBF's.
 

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Sitting behind the goals on saturday night i had a very good view of the ground and every play how it opened up.

Every time we turned the ball over in the forward line it went stright up through the corridor so quick it makes it very hard for our defenders to be able to put any real pressure on their men because they are having to chase from behind.

We need to block that avenue through the middle and at least push their onballers etc out wider.

And that comes down to the ONB division and the flankers.

Jamison and Waite did ok jobs, but the support around them was pretty average which didn't help stem the flow of goals at all.
 
threads like this make me wonder if the people posting them actually watch the games or understand football.

Our defenders have been our best players so far this year. It is up to our (STAR) midfielders to start reacting and chasing and applying pressure.. As ratts said, 51 entries for 35 scoring shots ??? this gives the defenders very little to work with, especially with the new rules.

I think the coaches really need to have a serious look at this as well. They need to devise a plan that will limit the amount of ball coming into our 50, we need to give our backline some kind of chance.

I would suggest enforcing a full ground zone such as hawthorn does. Our accountability is horrible and we are not quick enough to recover at the required time.

Ratts has a bit of work to do.
 
bluejudd said:
threads like this make me wonder if the people posting them actually watch the games or understand football.

Our defenders have been our best players so far this year. It is up to our (STAR) midfielders to start reacting and chasing and applying pressure.. As ratts said, 51 entries for 35 scoring shots ??? this gives the defenders very little to work with, especially with the new rules.

I think the coaches really need to have a serious look at this as well. They need to devise a plan that will limit the amount of ball coming into our 50, we need to give our backline some kind of chance.

I would suggest enforcing a full ground zone such as hawthorn does. Our accountability is horrible and we are not quick enough to recover at the required time.

Ratts has a bit of work to do.
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here here
 
As people have pointed out, would like to see the stats for Inside 50's against us as an average across the league, I would imagine we wouldn't be faring so well. This leads to a lot of space in the opposition F50 and a lot of one on one contests.

Lord knows with the current rules, I wouldn't want to be a defender exposed to a large number of one on one contests these days. I think Jamo needs to be complimented....for a bloke who came through the VFL ranks and started off looking as a third tall option, he has bulked up without losing any speed....his closing speed is very good and he is good at judging the right amount of body pressure without giving away too many free kicks.

Also as we know, a specialist small defender with some grunt, pace and pr*ck in them a-la Jake King wouldn't go astray. Walker has also been a huge loss, while people sometimes put the blinkers on and worry about his disposal (which is improving), he is disciplined and will worry about beating his man before running off and creating.
 
One problem we had in defence this week was that Thornton and Waite were taken back to the goal-square by their opponents. That robbed us of some rebound. It probably hurt Waite's game more than Thornton's.

Essendon were playing a spare, and we should have setup so that Waite was the spare roaming at CHB. Let someone else take McPhee.

Expect other sides to take Waite back to the goal square at every opportunity. If we're going to play him there we should have a tactic to respond with.
 
Similar to what other are saying, but with the changing strengths of our team I think we need a slight change of game plan. In the past, we were a little undersized and struggling in the centre square. Added to that, we were generally pretty crap, so we just played attacking football to teach the kids. But now I think our strength will be in the centre of the ground, with a group of players who can get a hard ball (Judd, Hadley, Murphy, Carazzo, Bentick) and dispose of it to the skilled outside players (Stevens, Gibbs, Houlihan, Scotland with Judd and Murphy falling into both categories). Given this, I think we would do well just by playing simple man-on-man, congestion football and back our midfield to win the one-on-one contests. This would mean midfielders manning up once their chances of being involved in a forward thrust are low. Not letting the likes of Essendon get us over and over on the rebound.
 
The problem is the small backs. Too often we blood young midfielders who aren't up to a senior midfield game on a back flank, then when you play them alongside guys like Scotland and Hoops who play as deep unaccountable midfielders, then essentially you have our talls shouldering all of the responisbility. When was the last time a team with a small forward hasn't kicked a bag on us?? Lovett, Milne, Didak, Farmer... we are always slaughtered by these guys. We need defenders to play like Chris Johnson from the Lions golden era, we need to capitalize on the fact that Thornton is more than comfortable carrying the ball and Jamo is one of the straightest kicks in the team and stop playing specialist attacking defenders who are not suited to playing close checking roles.

We are missing AW a lot, and hopefully when the kids in the midfield bulk up we can add Hadley to the back six plus Ando and then we'll have a dynamic and tough back six with the skill to clear it.
 

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AlecDuncan said:
One problem we had in defence this week was that Thornton and Waite were taken back to the goal-square by their opponents. That robbed us of some rebound. It probably hurt Waite's game more than Thornton's.

Essendon were playing a spare, and we should have setup so that Waite was the spare roaming at CHB. Let someone else take McPhee.

Expect other sides to take Waite back to the goal square at every opportunity. If we're going to play him there we should have a tactic to respond with.
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Essendon had a spare man in defence for about 5 minutes of the match. Other than that it was man on man. I'm not sure which game you were watching?
 
bibi01 said:
because our midfielders do not man up and our fwd's do not apply enough pressure in our FWD 50

thus allowing the opposition to rebound quickly and move the ball easily and unopossed into their FWD 50, giving our defender very little chance to beat their opponent

defence is not limited to the the 6 players name at FB, CHB, BP's, HBF's.
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And who's fault is it that our defenders; regulary play from behind, leave players unmarked, at times do not effect spoils or clear the ball etc...? Maybe, our FF's? or the coaches? or maybe it's mine and your fault?....

Our defenders constantly escape the blame for anything that happens in our backline. Posts like the one above are complete and utter bullshit in my opinion.
 
It's all about pressure in the midfield, and whilst we some of the best in the league, there defensive pressure as a whole leaves alot to be desired. When Essendon got the ball at half back, they almost went through the middle without any pressure on them at all, and to be honest, this is quite surprising, given the guy we have coaching us at the moment.

There seem to be too many individuals out there, rather than the group working as a team.
 
Carlton's defence is weak, and yes we have already recruited many defenders, there are loads of them in the ants not many getting a game yet...


What's wrong so far:

1. Playing blokes in defence who have never played there in their lives and have no idea...

2. More support for the fullback, 2nd or 3rd player coming over the top to spoil, (Like what Ang Christou/Glenn Manton used to do when we were good), time for blokes like Bower, Thornton, Jamison and Wait need to do this al all costs, good to see thornton doing this a bit but if the other talls are around and not in a wrestling duel they need to back themselves and do it more, just saw Bower miss a few opportunities to do this which cost us but he'll learn.

3. Stronger spoiling, too often players get a fist onto the footy but don't get any real purchase on it... Practice spoiling at training? Practice punching a ball wide?...

4. A "must have pace", "must be able to tackle", "must have a defencive/footy brain" and "must have clean skills" policy.


Defender Overview:

The Good

Paul Bower: Makes good decisions with the footy and has good skills both by hand and foot, still has plenty to learn but is coming along nicely.

Bret Thornton: Saved a lot of embarrassment over the last few years, a genuine defender, genuine backmans brain, good skills and having a good year.

Michael Jamison: Is improving at a great rate, did a great job on Lloyd the other night, seems to be a fast learner, good spoiler, good speed and reach and has the right brain to play full back, will be a star in his prime.

Jarrad Waite: Genuine star, sometimes is a little loose on his opponent but having a good year and doing some good jobs.

Heath Scotland: Not in form but a good player, provides run and attack out of defence, i think Thornton is playing his role this year and him a more defencive role.

Andrew Walker: Will be a midfielder, but when he comes back may play back a bit to bolster the speed and class back there, plays taller than what he is and is smart enough to find the footy. Missing him big time this year, he seemed ready to go and stand up.

The Bad

Ryan Houlihan: Can't run, can't keep up or beat opponents to the footy, leagues weakest tackler, too easy to exploit, my opining is trade him or play him forward but he is a weak link in the chain. There are plenty of players around like him but they can also run and tackle (Anderson, Jackson etc)

Jordan Russell: Doesn't have a the right brain to be a footballer let alone a defender, constantly in the wrong place and position, can't predict what his opponent or the play will do next (read play). Hasn't improved in this area, perhaps doesn't chase or work hard enough and isn't hard enough at contests.

Jason Saddington: Plays much shorter than what he is, can he jump at all? Good skills and disposal but gets beaten too often. Is limited as he can't play on players taller than him.

Just hanging on

Jordan Bannister: Nothing special but seems to do a good honest job, makes some poor decisions with the footy, maby not so strong in the air and lacks the kind of pace that is required to break lines and get out of trouble.

Setanta O'hAilpin: Spoiling technique needs a lot of work, doesn't use his body and lacks a bit of ball hardness, maby he'll make it, must work on spoiling and marking the high ball.

Worth a go

Simon Wiggins: has great hands, very hard at the contest and gives 100%, has pace and reasonable disposal, plays taller than what he is and seemed to have a good finish to last year. Has been played as a forward and winger in recent times in the Blues, why not play back?

Joe Anderson: A big hope, hopefully makes his debut soon, has pace and great skills and is quite tall. Should be already playing ahead of Bannister/Russell/Houlihan.

Dennis Armfield: lacks height, may get exploited for it but has lots of speed and looks to be hard at it, still too early to tell.

Clinton Benjamin: has good skills and excellent speed. Is a genuine defender. Should see him in soon.

Steven Browne: Don't know a lot about him yet, but from what i do he is a natural, smart and tough defender with good skills. May also make an early Debut this year. May need time to get his body physically right for AFL.

Ryan Jackson: Known as a midfielder, has lots of skills and footy smarts, to me he appears to have the attributes of a good medium-small defender.



My Carlton's side for the end of the year is:

B: Thornton Jamison Bower
HB: Anderson Wait Benjamin
C: Simpson Judd Jackson
HF: Betts Cloke Walker
F: Fisher Fevola Gibbs
O/B: Kreuzer Murphy Stevens
I/C: Hampson Carrazzo Scotland Browne
EM: Bentick Wiggins Armfield

Perhaps a weakness at CHF? but Kreuzer will play there too so all good.

More speed especially in defence, players in defence who are genuine defenders. Plenty of run on the bench (and no duds, i think...). Emergencies could easily play too depending on form.
 
gbatman said:
Joe Anderson: A big hope, hopefully makes his debut soon, has pace and great skills and is quite tall. Should be already playing ahead of Bannister/Russell/Houlihan.

Clinton Benjamin: has good skills and excellent speed. Is a genuine defender. Should see him in soon.
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You sure you haven't gotten these two confused with each other?

Anderson showed a lot in his few games last year prior to doing his hamstring and Benjamin has question marks over his skills.
 

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what we need is a jason gram type defender long left footers quick out of defense all sides have one someone that can break the lines we have lacked for years since ang christou we look to slow coming out of defense .
 
The defenders themselves are improving, and its been good to get a bit of stability there this year. The Jamison/Waite/Thornton/Bower nucleus is finally getting a few consecutive games to improve as a unit, capped off with a few midfielders rotating through to lend support. Ideally, you'd have a full 6 or 7 player 'unit' that plays together on a regular basis and knows when to zone off or rotate - but we're a long way off an ideal situation for anything right now. Really we need 2 of Bannister, Anderson, Benjamen, Armfield or Browne to develop into consistent backmen, plus another 'tall' through the draft this year. That would free up Houlihan, Walker, Scotland, Gibbs et al into more attacking roles as well. Really, its only when that happens that our team starts winning games.

The defensive aspects in the midfield are a bit of a concern. Part of it is just reading the play. Too often, players commit themselves forward, only for a turnover to occur, leaving the defenders stranded. Skill errors compound this, as does the lack of fitness in Judd and Stevens. Only time will improve that aspect. Tackling has been woeful this year; hopefully that improves as more players get match fitness and youngsters gain experience.
 
Ratts said one of his jobs when he took on the role as coach was to get the opposition scoring down. We've still got the same gameplan and it's hard to watch knowing any lead we get can erode in the space of minutes. We have to start controlling the centre square- maybe there's too many midfielders running forward of the ball and just don't chase when we lose possession.
 
I'd rather Wiggins in the backline than Houlihan.

At least he has a red hot crack and throws his body into a contest in an effort to defend.

He might not be as skilful but he's not a squib that skirts the packs either.
 
Yeah, only saw Benjamin a little in the ants on TV, just seems like one of tose types who would do better at AFL, skills seemed ok from what I can remember, maby had a good day? Worth blooding I think.

Either way we are kidding ourselves at carlton, defence is like a cive, its made upof players who are too slow and are suited to playing in other positions but don't because they arent good enough, Essendon's (and others) fast forwards were the difference on the weekend.
 

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