Analysis Defensive Stocks.

[glengowan]

The Crows should also re-rookie Jake Von Bertouch who has made giant strides with the Eagles this season - following a break out 2013 SANFL finals series.

 

[headache1]

I would have preferred we try to turn McKernan into a swingman than use Pods in that role. Whilst yet to shake himself of spudness (and he will probably never do that now), he's at least big enough, and more importantly, athletic enough, to go with the Kennedy and Darling types of the world. Pods is the kind of player you recruit if you're making a push for a flag (although his old club who was a lot closer still let him go anyway), not when you're a middle table side with a youngish list that's in need of development. Wasted near an entire season on him now.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Yeah lets lump all the blame on our defense. Never mind the fact our overrated midfield got trounced again.

 

[OldCrowBloke]

I agree in part with the posters who claimed our defenders had no hope in the face of princess pressure from the midfield.

But that doesn't cover the fact that we are extrwemely thin in KPD stocks.

Time to throw the house at Frawley, or even ( i feel dirty saying it) try for Davis.

With teams playing taller and more mobile forward combinations, we have to cover that somehow and our internal stocks are lacking.

 

[Bailey01]

I heard Siggins took a real step forward today. I think Hartigans absence was a blessing in disguise for him as he takes one of the best KPD from the other team. What do people think Siggins?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I heard Siggins took a real step forward today. I think Hartigans absence was a blessing in disguise for him as he takes one of the best KPD from the other team. What do people think Siggins?

I like Siggins. I've said before that he reminds me a bit of Justin Clarke from Brisbane or even Tom Jonas when he first started. Got that rangy, rawboned country kid build (no idea if he's actually from the country). Doesn't look like a high disposal winner/rebounder, more a pure stopper.

 

[Bailey01]

I like Siggins. I've said before that he reminds me a bit of Justin Clarke from Brisbane or even Tom Jonas when he first started. Got that rangy, rawboned country kid build (no idea if he's actually from the country). Doesn't look like a high disposal winner/rebounder, more a pure stopper.

When he was drafted he had good rebound

 

[Mike Smyth]

After the wonderful Ben Rutten retires we only have one proven tall defender on our list. The rest are either really average of most likely busts. Add 2nd and 3rd tall defenders to our shopping list.

 

[Mike Smyth]

I like Siggins. I've said before that he reminds me a bit of Justin Clarke from Brisbane or even Tom Jonas when he first started. Got that rangy, rawboned country kid build (no idea if he's actually from the country). Doesn't look like a high disposal winner/rebounder, more a pure stopper.

Must admit I was really excited when I saw Siggins junior highlights but you would have to say he has been disappointed so far this year. But hey beggars can't be choosy so throw him in for a couple of games. Phil Davis wasn't really setting the world on fire at North before he was given a go in the big league.
Siggins might surprise us and we desperately need another tall defender.

 

[Crow_Magnon]

We need to recruit a KPD in the off-season and get rid of the deadweight.

I cannot see Thompson, Hartigan, Siggins, Shaw and Otten doing anything special in the years to come.

We all know Tals is a star but who else is even capable of doing what he does right now? No one is.

Thompson - keep
Otten - keep
Hartigan - keep
Shaw - sack
Siggins - sack

We NEED a CHB it's as as simple as that. What we have right now isn't getting us anywhere anytime soon.

Otten should be trade bait in my view...I've not seen a good game from Otten all year. Far too slow and is a liability for us. With Rutten out next year, Talia, Hartigan and LT should be in front of him. We do need anothe KPD though....I've not seen much of Siggins, so I can't comment. I'd keep Shaw, as I have seen some good games from him earlier in the year - though I'm not sure he's tall enough to play against a third tall - more mid-sized forwards.

 

[Hank93]

Sam Durdin could be on our way in the draft if we finish 10th or possibly 11/12th. Best tall defender prospect in the draft.

 

[Untouchables22]

Sam Durdin could be on our way in the draft if we finish 10th or possibly 11/12th. Best tall defender prospect in the draft.

I worry about Durdin, most probably an irrational worry, but I just have nightmares of Sellar.

I like the look of Marchbank.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Genuine Talls:
- Talia is a champion
- Hartigan showing a lot of promise and has been harshly judged by some imo…good enough to be a 2nd tall defender at AFL level.
- Siggins will probably need another 2 pre-seasons to completely fill out enough, but I'm happy with other aspects of his game. Has the athleticism that he could start next year as a 3rd tall but wouldn't want him exposed to the big units just yet.

3rd Talls:
- L Thompson hasn't yet been played in this role due to match-ups. Certainly exposed against genuine talls, especially on the weekend when our non-existent midfield let his opponent lead into acres of space. Maybe Sando didn't mind giving up the shallow entries?
- Otten…can't play on smalls, can't play on agile players, can't play on genuine decent talls, provides nothing offensively with his awful skills. Thompson can at least do 3 out of those 4 and thus stays my preference as 3rd tall.
- Shaw…a faster version of Otten but even worse defensively. Not a bad '3rd man in' and will get intercept marks but then turnover the ball with awful disposal.

It's shallow stocks, further exposed by a one-way midfield.

Unless Otten can play as a forward pocket/flanker/utility, we should trade him out.

Unless we are willing to experiment with Shaw on a wing or forward, he might as well get delisted.

Still think we should've trialled McKernan in defence again in the SANFL now he's physically matured. He'd likely be no good, but he's doing that already in other positions.

So for mine, unless we trade someone in, next year we start with Talia, Hartigan and whoever performing best out of LT/Siggins.

 

[OzSparrow]

Our best back six is good, losing Talia is unfortunate but thems the breaks.

Our next back six sucks, but this isn't the end of the world if our best back six stays fit.

Midfield pressure, modern footy. We are failing at this.

This is the cause. Plain as the nose on your face (unless you sit in the Crows coaching box that is). The leaking of goals by the defence was merely the symptom.

You could have had an AA backline on Saturday with no difference to the result. This was simply due to the freedom and space and time the Eagles mids had due to our mids (did we have any??) lack of pressure and turnovers.

Fix the midfield and you fix the backline issues. Sure losing Talia hurts but don't look down back for the solution....look in the middle!

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Fix the midfield and you fix the backline issues. Sure losing Talia hurts but don't look down back for the solution....look in the middle!

I agree this is the major problem.

Sure, LT and Otten were poor and will never defend as well as Talia and Brown do, but seriously they were exposed by their teammates upfield.

Our midfield issues are imo:

1) We may win clearance differential but they are mostly ineffective around stoppage, whereas other teams get the ball on the outside with better skill and system.
2) We offer precious little defensively, poor set-ups and poor intent to tackle effectively.
3) Our outside players are barely passable…very average indeed.

Lyons would be our best option to fix point 1, though is lacking in point 2.
M Crouch should help point 1 & 2.
Grigg, despite lack of foot speed, can do all 3 when at his best.

Maybe get Sloane to HB, Smith into the midfield, Danger more forward/wing time cos his clearances are counter-productive. Need Kerridge back but in a possession gathering mode…he can kick! Douglas stays as primary tagger. Get the slow, poor kicking short people Wright and Laird out of the midfield. One more insipid display by Mackay and he should get the axe as an example. Martin deserves a full time crack on the wing and wouldn't do any worse (though it's only a small improvement). Heck, give Jaensch another shot on the wing if we must, put Laird back and hope the opposition aren't smart enough to isolate him.

 

[headache1]

On Siggins, I agree with you in thinking it'll take another 2 years at least before he's in prime physical condition, but I wouldn't mind throwing him into the deep end. We did it with Talia, who early on got absolutely manhandled by Cloke and it's worked out fine. We don't have much to lose really. Give him the rest of the season in the AFL and let him know just what he's got to do to prepare himself for AFL football in the future.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

On Siggins, I agree with you in thinking it'll take another 2 years at least before he's in prime physical condition, but I wouldn't mind throwing him into the deep end. We did it with Talia, who early on got absolutely manhandled by Cloke and it's worked out fine. We don't have much to lose really. Give him the rest of the season in the AFL and let him know just what he's got to do to prepare himself for AFL football in the future.

I'd give Luke Thompson another 2 weeks, playing in his proper 3rd tall role, to prove he's not as bad as the last couple efforts.

If that fails, I'd love to see Siggins given the final 2 games of the year as 3rd tall, the first one being a home game in Tassie

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Quotes from Sam Siggins re the SANFL match on the weekend:

“I thought I was alright today, but a lot of credit has to go to the boys up the field,”

“It makes it a lot easier when they force the opposition to rush and kick it in high all day.”

Wow, who would've thought. Maybe Thompson could rest his hammie this week and go watch the SANFL boys play and learn a thing or two.

 

[KingJames23]

I agree this is the major problem.

Sure, LT and Otten were poor and will never defend as well as Talia and Brown do, but seriously they were exposed by their teammates upfield.

Our midfield issues are imo:

1) We may win clearance differential but they are mostly ineffective around stoppage, whereas other teams get the ball on the outside with better skill and system.
2) We offer precious little defensively, poor set-ups and poor intent to tackle effectively.
3) Our outside players are barely passable…very average indeed.

Lyons would be our best option to fix point 1, though is lacking in point 2.
M Crouch should help point 1 & 2.
Grigg, despite lack of foot speed, can do all 3 when at his best.

Maybe get Sloane to HB, Smith into the midfield, Danger more forward/wing time cos his clearances are counter-productive. Need Kerridge back but in a possession gathering mode…he can kick! Douglas stays as primary tagger. Get the slow, poor kicking short people Wright and Laird out of the midfield. One more insipid display by Mackay and he should get the axe as an example. Martin deserves a full time crack on the wing and wouldn't do any worse (though it's only a small improvement). Heck, give Jaensch another shot on the wing if we must, put Laird back and hope the opposition aren't smart enough to isolate him.

Agree with your midfield issues but not all of the moves.

M Crouch needs to come in, not just for his clearance work, but his defensive work. He keeps the ball in the contest and stop it from leaking out.
However, sloane to half back won't achieve much because he's not fast, nor is he a long or effective kick. He must stay in the midfield.
I like Danger more forward, but not on the wing. His best attribute is contested ball, and unfortunately, its not sustainable. But put him on a wing for loose possession and his disposal is as bad as anyone in the team. Just doesn't hit targets. I would rather see Danger as a mid-forward who has burts in the midfield where he can do what he does best - contested possession. But we need to limit his time in the midfield because, as I mentioned, just not sustainable for him.

Not a fan of wright. I'd take 15 Grigg possessions over 22 Wright possessions. He's just doesn't effect the game or hurt the opposition. I just can't understand him playing ahead of Lyons or M Crouch.

I would also push Laird back to the back pocket where he was so effective last year, and move Jaensch up the ground further. So like your point of Jaensch on the wing. Feel he could be very damaging. I get that teams want a great kicker to do the kick-outs after an opposition point. But when you kick long and right 99% of the time as our team does, any player in the team can fill that role.

 

[skoobydoo]

Agree with your midfield issues but not all of the moves.

M Crouch needs to come in, not just for his clearance work, but his defensive work. He keeps the ball in the contest and stop it from leaking out.
However, sloane to half back won't achieve much because he's not fast, nor is he a long or effective kick. He must stay in the midfield.
I like Danger more forward, but not on the wing. His best attribute is contested ball, and unfortunately, its not sustainable. But put him on a wing for loose possession and his disposal is as bad as anyone in the team. Just doesn't hit targets. I would rather see Danger as a mid-forward who has burts in the midfield where he can do what he does best - contested possession. But we need to limit his time in the midfield because, as I mentioned, just not sustainable for him.

Not a fan of wright. I'd take 15 Grigg possessions over 22 Wright possessions. He's just doesn't effect the game or hurt the opposition. I just can't understand him playing ahead of Lyons or M Crouch.

I would also push Laird back to the back pocket where he was so effective last year, and move Jaensch up the ground further. So like your point of Jaensch on the wing. Feel he could be very damaging. I get that teams want a great kicker to do the kick-outs after an opposition point. But when you kick long and right 99% of the time as our team does, any player in the team can fill that role.

True.